Modern slavery

[marharth]

Sounds like the flat tax to me. Who would this fair tax hurt more....if it is the same for everyone?

 

You only pay when you spend money, obviously that means the rich will pay way more in taxes. Necessities are not taxed. You are only taxed when you but PlayStations and new cars, etc.

So it would be a higher sale tax and it would get rid of income tax?

[csgators]

Sounds like the flat tax to me. Who would this fair tax hurt more....if it is the same for everyone?

 

You only pay when you spend money, obviously that means the rich will pay way more in taxes. Necessities are not taxed. You are only taxed when you but PlayStations and new cars, etc.

So it would be a higher sale tax and it would get rid of income tax?

The idea is to repeal the income tax and replace it with a sales tax, the more you spend the more you pay.

[SilverDNA]

Sounds like the flat tax to me. Who would this fair tax hurt more....if it is the same for everyone?

 

You only pay when you spend money, obviously that means the rich will pay way more in taxes. Necessities are not taxed. You are only taxed when you but PlayStations and new cars, etc.

So it would be a higher sale tax and it would get rid of income tax?

The idea is to repeal the income tax and replace it with a sales tax, the more you spend the more you pay.

This sounds like a sure way to make the move of money from hand to hand make less and less ... bad move because if less and less money changes hands the less taxes a government takes from it's citizens well was the same here in 2004 they saw that failure and corrected it slightly with innovative measures that kept the flow of money with the citizens up but it did take till 2007 till the fruits of this came up.

Edited May 28, 2011 by SilverDNA

[csgators]

This sounds like a sure way to make the move of money from hand to hand make less and less ... bad move because if less and less money changes hands the less taxes a government takes from it's citizens well was the same here in 2004 they saw that failure and corrected it slightly with innovative measures that kept the flow of money with the citizens up but it did take till 2007 till the fruits of this came up.

 

My concern is not with the government but with the citizens, if they make less money well all the less they have to bomb people with and the less they have to reward bad behavior with.

[Harbringe]

Income tax was implemented to help pay for a world war. It was supposed to be temporary..... so much for that thought eh?

A Flat income tax would be a far better option. You make money, a flat percentage of that money goes to the government. No tax returns, no LIBRARIES filled with books ONLY on tax law.....

 

Income tax in the US is unconstitutional , there is actually no law in any form requiring any US citizen to pay it.It is a completely illegal confiscation of wealth.The only form of income tax that has a legal basis is in the US Constituion and is that which is earned profit not wages and labor.Corporations know this and have been working hard to shift the tax burden away from themselves and to the citizenry of the US for over a 100 years now.

 

Here's a documentary that will explain it and for those who watch , its gonna blow you away to learn what model your IRS and Federal Reserve is built upon ,especially for those on the right who think they know what their so called Capitalism is.

 

Freedom to Fascim

 

Heres another that will show you why your destined to become a slave , actually a debt slave which for all intents and purposes will pretty much be the same as being a slave.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

 

Also a flat tax will never work .Here's why Capitalism is a pyramid scheme with many levels until you get to the top and each level produces its own wealth that pays for all the wages and stuff you need for each level but also a certain amount is profit that jumps to the next level and that level produces its owm wealth then adds to the profit already from the previous level and so on until you get to the top and guy at top goes oo look at me I'm rich.So if you use a flat tax you end up not counting ever increasing sums of profit going up the pyramid .Also given that in a capitalist model you will have ever increasing cost in everything including government (gotta maintain that profit margin) so your tax rate will need to increase and over time consuming more and more of a percentage of the people at the bottom income until it reaches a point where they can no longer sustain the tax burden and the whole thing collapses.This never really affects people at the top or near to the top as their income is being supplemented by the profit making efforts of those below them.Economists have known this for over a century now which is why they originally came up with the graduated tax system.

[HeyYou]

I seriously doubt it would work that way. Currently, I pay taxes on any car I buy, whether I buy it new, used, or anything in between. If I don't pay at the point of sale, I pay when I go to transfer the title into my name.

 

There are a hell of a lot more 'used' houses on the market than there are new...... the government isn't going to not tax a major sale like that. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

You are basing the new tax system on the old one, and BTW what FEDERAL taxes do you currently pay on any cars or houses? Answer: none.

 

Ah, so, this federal tax would be in addition to any state sales tax? (also, the fed DOES charge sales tax on certain commodities, they just call it an "excise tax".... same thing, different name.)

 

Do you really think the government is going to ignore a couple multi-billion (trillion?) dollar opportunities to generate revenue?

 

The so called "fair" tax, is anything but.

[csgators]

I seriously doubt it would work that way. Currently, I pay taxes on any car I buy, whether I buy it new, used, or anything in between. If I don't pay at the point of sale, I pay when I go to transfer the title into my name.

 

There are a hell of a lot more 'used' houses on the market than there are new...... the government isn't going to not tax a major sale like that. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

You are basing the new tax system on the old one, and BTW what FEDERAL taxes do you currently pay on any cars or houses? Answer: none.

 

Ah, so, this federal tax would be in addition to any state sales tax? (also, the fed DOES charge sales tax on certain commodities, they just call it an "excise tax".... same thing, different name.)

 

Do you really think the government is going to ignore a couple multi-billion (trillion?) dollar opportunities to generate revenue?

 

The so called "fair" tax, is anything but.

 

The first step in the Fair Tax is a repeal of the 16th amendment, at which point the sales taxes take over. Why would you assume that is tax will make them more greedy than they are now? At least with this tax people will see it every time they go to the store, makes it much harder to hide.

[Kuraikiba]

There is no such thing as true freedom, only relative freedom. We are all slaves to something even if we do not acknowledge it. Even a man who lives off alone in the wilderness is a slave to not only the country or place where he resides, but also the labors he must undertake simply to survive and protect himself in lieu of not having someone else he can entrust and support in those duties.

 

The taxes you pay, regardless what taxes they are, go to being spent on those things that allow your civilized life to exist. Without them, there would be no police (or courts, or prisons), no public roads, no military, and limited access to medicine, food, education, and countless other things. Just because the money which pays for these things may not come directly out of one type of tax or another doesn't mean that you wouldn't still end up paying for it somewhere. The matter of who pays for what is really kind of moot since we're all really paying for each other regardless what you think about it.

 

The only thing you can do is elect and promote people who can use that money responsibly, and encourage people to not abuse what services or power they have access to simply for their own benefit as if something is 'owed' to them. It is a system setup around the promise of our own mutual destruction should it fail, a fact which is missed on many these days.

 

A well thought out and wise post. Kudos to you, Vagrant!

[HeyYou]

I seriously doubt it would work that way. Currently, I pay taxes on any car I buy, whether I buy it new, used, or anything in between. If I don't pay at the point of sale, I pay when I go to transfer the title into my name.

 

There are a hell of a lot more 'used' houses on the market than there are new...... the government isn't going to not tax a major sale like that. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

You are basing the new tax system on the old one, and BTW what FEDERAL taxes do you currently pay on any cars or houses? Answer: none.

 

Ah, so, this federal tax would be in addition to any state sales tax? (also, the fed DOES charge sales tax on certain commodities, they just call it an "excise tax".... same thing, different name.)

 

Do you really think the government is going to ignore a couple multi-billion (trillion?) dollar opportunities to generate revenue?

 

The so called "fair" tax, is anything but.

 

The first step in the Fair Tax is a repeal of the 16th amendment, at which point the sales taxes take over. Why would you assume that is tax will make them more greedy than they are now? At least with this tax people will see it every time they go to the store, makes it much harder to hide.

 

Much harder to hide? How so? All you need to do is look at your paycheck, and you can see exactly how much the government is extracting from you. It's where it GOES that is the mystery.

 

The main problem I see with it, is public perception of the price of just about everything taking an almost 25% jump. They won't notice the bit of a bump in their check, but, they sure as hell will notice that everything now costs significantly more.

 

The real problem isn't gathering the revenue, it's how the government perceives it, and how they blithely spend it. If our government exercised some flavor of fiscal responsibility, quit blowing money on pie in the sky projects, made some intelligent decisions, they wouldn't have the issues they do now. Trouble is, those folks that pass the laws want to keep their cushy (tax free...) jobs, and how do they do that? By bringing money into their area's they represent. Government paid for projects, with no clue where the money is going to come from. Its the magic font that never runs out. Well, ok, not until lately. And now, the fad of the day is "government financial responsibility". Putting 'government" and "responsibility" in the same sentence seems to me to be one of the greatest ironies I have seen. They don't work for the money. If they spend too much, they just legislate themselves some more. Only governments can get away with that kind of behavior. If any private citizen tried that, they would be in prison so fast, they would be there a week before they figgered out what happened.

 

We currently spend 25% of our budget on Defense. 23% on health care, and 21% on pensions..... (not to mention at least 5% on just interest... to say nothing about paying down the principle, which ain't happenin'.) The US has more foreign military bases than EVERY other country COMBINED. Why? Do we NEED all those bases? This aint the cold war any more. A bunch of the countries where we have bases don't even want us there....... or, are in such political disarray, that we have trouble determining whom to write the check to. We pay 22% of the UN budget. There are 192 (at last count) members, so, why are we paying the lions share of it? (and why do we finance an organization that does little or no good, has zero credibility, and even less authority......) Why do we pay billions of dollars to countries that don't need it? Why do we give billions of dollars to support governments that we publicly decry for human rights violations? Why do we support a country whose prime export is Opium? Why do we pay our enemies bribes so we can get our military supplies thru, so that we can fight them? Why do we pay a government aid to help fight terrorism, when it is readily apparent that they SUPPORT terrorism? Why does the US government think they can buy "friends", when they know very well that it just doesn't work??? Why do we pay folks that overthrow a government that we once called allies????? I am thinkin' that ain't gonna endear us to anyone.....

 

There are a lot of things that need to happen. Too bad NONE of them ever will. Not until it all comes crashing down, again... around their ears, and the american people finally wake up from their slumber, and decide to DO something. Expecting answers from the government? Well, I hope you are really patient.......

Edited May 28, 2011 by HeyYou

[csgators]

I seriously doubt it would work that way. Currently, I pay taxes on any car I buy, whether I buy it new, used, or anything in between. If I don't pay at the point of sale, I pay when I go to transfer the title into my name.

 

There are a hell of a lot more 'used' houses on the market than there are new...... the government isn't going to not tax a major sale like that. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

You are basing the new tax system on the old one, and BTW what FEDERAL taxes do you currently pay on any cars or houses? Answer: none.

 

Ah, so, this federal tax would be in addition to any state sales tax? (also, the fed DOES charge sales tax on certain commodities, they just call it an "excise tax".... same thing, different name.)

 

Do you really think the government is going to ignore a couple multi-billion (trillion?) dollar opportunities to generate revenue?

 

The so called "fair" tax, is anything but.

 

The first step in the Fair Tax is a repeal of the 16th amendment, at which point the sales taxes take over. Why would you assume that is tax will make them more greedy than they are now? At least with this tax people will see it every time they go to the store, makes it much harder to hide.

 

Much harder to hide? How so? All you need to do is look at your paycheck, and you can see exactly how much the government is extracting from you. It's where it GOES that is the mystery.

 

The main problem I see with it, is public perception of the price of just about everything taking an almost 25% jump. They won't notice the bit of a bump in their check, but, they sure as hell will notice that everything now costs significantly more.

 

The real problem isn't gathering the revenue, it's how the government perceives it, and how they blithely spend it. If our government exercised some flavor of fiscal responsibility, quit blowing money on pie in the sky projects, made some intelligent decisions, they wouldn't have the issues they do now. Trouble is, those folks that pass the laws want to keep their cushy (tax free...) jobs, and how do they do that? By bringing money into their area's they represent. Government paid for projects, with no clue where the money is going to come from. Its the magic font that never runs out. Well, ok, not until lately. And now, the fad of the day is "government financial responsibility". Putting 'government" and "responsibility" in the same sentence seems to me to be one of the greatest ironies I have seen. They don't work for the money. If they spend too much, they just legislate themselves some more. Only governments can get away with that kind of behavior. If any private citizen tried that, they would be in prison so fast, they would be there a week before they figgered out what happened.

 

We currently spend 25% of our budget on Defense. 23% on health care, and 21% on pensions..... (not to mention at least 5% on just interest... to say nothing about paying down the principle, which ain't happenin'.) The US has more foreign military bases than EVERY other country COMBINED. Why? Do we NEED all those bases? This aint the cold war any more. A bunch of the countries where we have bases don't even want us there....... or, are in such political disarray, that we have trouble determining whom to write the check to. We pay 22% of the UN budget. There are 192 (at last count) members, so, why are we paying the lions share of it? (and why do we finance an organization that does little or no good, has zero credibility, and even less authority......) Why do we pay billions of dollars to countries that don't need it? Why do we give billions of dollars to support governments that we publicly decry for human rights violations? Why do we support a country whose prime export is Opium? Why do we pay our enemies bribes so we can get our military supplies thru, so that we can fight them? Why do we pay a government aid to help fight terrorism, when it is readily apparent that they SUPPORT terrorism? Why does the US government think they can buy "friends", when they know very well that it just doesn't work??? Why do we pay folks that overthrow a government that we once called allies????? I am thinkin' that ain't gonna endear us to anyone.....

 

There are a lot of things that need to happen. Too bad NONE of them ever will. Not until it all comes crashing down, again... around their ears, and the american people finally wake up from their slumber, and decide to DO something. Expecting answers from the government? Well, I hope you are really patient.......

 

I think you are missing many of the benefits of the sales tax, for one thing people who make money through illegal means will taxed (drug dealers, prostitutes, even thieves) will all have to pay taxes for a change. Rich families that live of their wealth and interest will have to pay taxes.

 

In one sentence you say that people see the taxes they currently pay and then you turn around and claim they wont notice the increase when that tax is removed. Which is it? Not to mention that everyone will see the taxes now, including the housewife who may not look at the pay stubs but votes for politicians that raise taxes.