Do You Think the Delayed Creation Kit Will Have a Long Term Negative Effect on Modding?

[ddavies10693]

I've never played Dota 2, or experienced the modding community there. But the closest comparison we have to what Fallout 4 paid modding would become was the catastrophic dumpster fire that was the 3 days of skyrim paid modding. No business that enjoys making profits will likely ever try that again anytime soon. I would say the most likely thing we will see is Bethesda buying really good mod ideas from modders, then supporting them themselves. For example, CDPR (creators of the Witcher 3) began taking some popular mods and including them into their official game updates.

[Boombro]

I've never played Dota 2, or experienced the modding community there. But the closest comparison we have to what Fallout 4 paid modding would become was the catastrophic dumpster fire that was the 3 days of skyrim paid modding. No business that enjoys making profits will likely ever try that again anytime soon. I would say the most likely thing we will see is Bethesda buying really good mod ideas from modders, then supporting them themselves. For example, CDPR (creators of the Witcher 3) began taking some popular mods and including them into their official game updates.

No one buys ideas. That a huge waste of money. Buying dirt is less wasteful.

[ddavies10693]

I don't mean just abstract ideas with no actual product (although copyright lawyers make millions every year), I mean mods that individuals have created previously, which the company sees as valuable, and wants to incorporate into the base game. They either buy or otherwise take the rights to the mod or the "idea" and then begin to maintain it themselves. I think you're focusing on one word that I used instead of the whole sentence.

[minngarm]

it's too easy to get screwed with paid mods. You pay full price for 5 or 6 paid mods, and now they don't work together, guess what? you cannot get your money back, because you could've just copied and pasted the files from your download, and to allow them to go in and delete files from computer automatically is really just a virus. You want to download the official Bethesda modding virus? There is no way to force mod authors to update their files either, unless we get into creating business contracts with mod authors, which will never ever happen. Mods conflict ALL the time in Bethesda games. Also this site, which has a near monopoly on modding of Bethesda titles, has stated that they will never allow paid mods, so why would people go anywhere else? Implementing paid mods yet again is a bad business decision that Steam would never try again. Bethesda wouldn't try something Steam showed just plain does not work (and does not make money, the most important thing). I don't know why people keep bringing this up.

 

Look at paid modding from a business standpoint, taking into account the logistics of it, the amount of support it would require (have you ever tried contacting steam customer support?), the terrible track record it had just a year ago, and numerous other factors, and you'll see it's pretty obvious that the likelihood of official paid modding is non-existent. Reports came out that Steam Corporation lost over 1 million dollars in 3 days when they tried paid modding for Skyrim. Bethesda is, first and foremost, a corporation with investors, stockholders and employees. They have made millions off of Fallout 4 as it is, so why would they try to implement a system that is only proven to lose money and anger their customers?

Sorry this is going to be harsh, but I don't find any validity in any of what you've said here.

 

The model was proven to be profitable, there was a minor hate group that gained popularity to counter it, that will not happen again.

 

The few issues the system had were well addressed in numerous discussions with steam and in other sources. Countless improvement suggestions have been submitted alone to correct these issues.

 

On top of all this paid modding has been profitable and largely popular in numerous games over the years, it is only a matter of time until it is brought to Beth. titles. The only remaining question is if it will be equal rights for all modders, or exclusive to a select type of modder like in the other existing cases of paid modding.

[ddavies10693]

If it was SO profitable, then why did it end within 3 days for Skyrim? You're acting like a small group of people worked tirelessly for months to stop paid modding for Skyrim, which isn't the case at all. They literally issued apologies to the entire community because it went SO terribly.

 

"After discussion with Valve, and listening to our community, paid mods are being removed from Steam Workshop. Even though we had the best intentions, the feedback has been clear -- this is not a feature you want." That was a quote made by Bethesda, is that valid enough for you? The only minor hate groups were the select few who enjoyed it, and were upset when it got taken down, which I understand. All I'm trying to say is this: If we look at Bethesda as a for-profit corporation, which they clearly are, it just isn't financially smart for them to try the same exact thing over again so soon, and expect different results.

 

Something isn't invalid just because you disagree with it. In theory, yes, there are ways paid modding in fallout 4 could work, but those are just theories, ideas, and recommendations made from behind a keyboard. There is zero solid evidence at this point to show that paid mods in a triple A Bethesda title would be successful.

[minngarm]

If it was SO profitable, then why did it end within 3 days for Skyrim? You're acting like a small group of people worked tirelessly for months to stop paid modding for Skyrim, which isn't the case at all. They literally issued apologies to the entire community because it went SO terribly.

 

"After discussion with Valve, and listening to our community, paid mods are being removed from Steam Workshop. Even though we had the best intentions, the feedback has been clear -- this is not a feature you want." That was literally a quote made by Bethesda, is that valid enough for you? The only minor hate groups were the select few who enjoyed it, and were pissed when it got taken down, which I understand. All I'm trying to say is this: If we look at Bethesda as a for-profit corporation, which they clearly are, it just isn't financially smart for them to try the same exact thing over again, and expect different results.

 

Something isn't invalid just because you disagree with it.

You have a very mistaken concept of what happened.

 

A small group of individuals out right lied and galvanized the plebs against it. There were virtually almost no valid arguments from those that wanted it removed beyond the possibility of previously free mods being turned into pay mods. Which does not say that paid mods are bad, just that allowing certain authors to flip around on what they said was free and what is charged is obviously not acceptable.

[ddavies10693]

Listen, I'm with you. As a gamer, I think paid mods could be great for this game, and possibly cause a massive increase in the quality of mods that we see. But as an adult I realize the key words in that scenario, are COULD and POSSIBLY. If it could cause a massive financial loss to them, why would they risk it? People forget that game companies have stockholders and executive suits like every other company. At the end of the day, Todd Howard and all of those other guys' jobs are about making them happy by creating revenue and sales, and if they don't, they'll be fired like everyone else.

 

And every movement in history started with a small group "galvanizing the plebs" because that's how people work. Mods became paid because people suddenly had the option to make them that way, not because their quality suddenly skyrocketed, so it's understandable why so many people got upset.

[minngarm]

Listen, I'm with you. As a gamer, I think paid mods could be great for this game, and possibly cause a massive increase in the quality of mods that we see. But as an adult I realize the key words in that scenario, are COULD and POSSIBLY. If it could cause a massive financial loss to them, why would they risk it? People forget that game companies have stockholders and executive suits like every other company. At the end of the day, Todd Howard and all of those other guys' jobs are about making them happy by creating revenue and sales, and if they don't, they'll be fired like everyone else.

 

And every movement in history started with a small group "galvanizing the plebs" because that's how people work. Mods became paid because people suddenly had the option to make them that way, not because their quality suddenly skyrocketed, so it's understandable why so many people got upset.

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-custom-game-pass-interview/

 

Edit: also the NAZI galvanzed the plebs as well. Don't make the mistake of thinking popular movement is a good thing.

Edited March 18, 2016 by minngarm

[TeamBacon]

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[minngarm]

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Exactly, that and a robust refund policy, a better split, and the only real problems are resolved.