Do You Think the Delayed Creation Kit Will Have a Long Term Negative Effect on Modding?

[minngarm]

 

 

Expect the hate.The biggest damage of paid mods was the death threats, hate spamming and trolls that made some modders take down all their stuff and just leave. Some never came back yet.

Welcome to the internet.

 

I've never been threatened on-line but I've been threatened multiple times in real life by people fully capable of carrying out their threats. I'm still alive. Working at my family's dry cleaning business I've had pistols pointed at my face and knives brandished at me. The year before my family left Sudan I was thrown on the ground by Muslim militia men and had the barrel of an assault rifle pressed against the back of my head. I was nine years old.

 

Crying 'internet violence' is a first world special snowflake reaction to people saying mean things to them. SJWs and 3rd wave feminists harass, troll and docs the people they target. But when it happens to them it is harassment and something must be done to stop it. Internet threats and the over reactions to them are internet drama and nothing more. The internet is stupid like that.

 

Modders pulling down their monetized content was a rage quit tactic that didn't work. They weren't forced to remove their content, they chose to. It was an inflamed situation, like someone posting a controversial video on YouTube and then removing it after the unavoidable backlash, or blocking the likes/dislikes and comments.

 

But all of this is way off topic. :sleep:

But it is a legit problem. Not to you maybe, but for someone else, it is.

 

Sorry, and with all respect to you, the argument of others having it worse so you should feel better doesn't work most of the time.

 

Of course, expect if it was tumblr style.

 

Yea it shouldnt happen, and should be fixed, but that doesnt make it important.

[WursWaldo]

But it is a legit problem. Not to you maybe, but for someone else, it is.

That reads like a sideways plea for regulating free speech. Case law has already determined that actionable real life threats are not the same as on-line threats. Threatening someone on-line doesn't legally constitute a reasonable expectation that the threat can be acted upon.

 

Citation: Elonis v. United States

That is the SCOTUS interpretation of 18 U.S. Code § 875 - Interstate communications

 

Chief Justice John Roberts’s opinion for the majority: “Federal criminal liability generally does not turn solely on the results of an act without considering the defendant’s mental state.”

 

ACLU legal director Steven R. Shapiro’s opinion: “Today’s decision properly recognizes that the law has for centuries required the government to prove criminal intent before putting someone in jail. That principle is especially important when a prosecution is based on a defendant’s words. The Internet does not change this long-standing rule. While today’s decision insists on fairness, it is not a license to threaten, which remains illegal when properly proved.”

 

Synopsis: On-line threats aren't a crime unless you mean it. This means no matter how abusive, violent, or reprehensible, being a horrible person isn’t a crime. That's why feminists can start #killallmen and rant like lunatics on twitter and tumblr. That's why fundamentalists can protest outside of abortion clinics. If it doesn't violate the 1st Amendment conditions for free speech then it's not a crime. Being internet butt-hurt because people say means things isn't just cause to prevent them from saying it.

 

Oh yeah, FO4 CK blah-blah-blah. If monetized modding returns people will be free to participate and others will be free to attack them for doing it. It's the law of the jungle.

Edited March 18, 2016 by WursWaldo

[PoliteRaider]

BUT it isn't likely to happen again for a triple A Bethesda game anytime soon because of real events that actually just happened in the past a relatively short time ago.

 

It's not the same situation now as it was then.

 

Skyrim paid modding was coming just before a brand new flagship release (Fallout 4) and was presumably their attempt to try it out with Skyrim first and then have it in Fallout 4 from the start. However with the large sales expected on FO4 they couldn't afford a publicity problem just before its release so they backed down to avoid losing an expected massive revenue stream.

 

Now's their chance to set a precedent for TES VI and only risk damage to their DLC sales which is a much smaller cost. At the moment they're in their development phase on at least 3 games with no new releases directly on the horizon, a lot of costs and not a lot of new sales. A new revenue stream off their existing IP with relatively minimal implementation costs is going to look very appealing to them at the moment. Particularly since they're introducing console modding and bethesda.net I really see them being likely to make another attempt for it. We'll see though.

 

Ultimately I just hope that whatever they do, they implement it well.

Edited March 18, 2016 by PoliteRaider

[TeamBacon]

The simple fact is, if you don't like the business someone is running or the product they are selling, then don't spend any money on the product or service.

 

If enough people agree with you, then they will not make any money and shut down.

 

No need to protest someone trying to make money off of something. If it is good it will make money, if it is bad it won't. That's just how society works...

[minngarm]

 

BUT it isn't likely to happen again for a triple A Bethesda game anytime soon because of real events that actually just happened in the past a relatively short time ago.

 

It's not the same situation now as it was then.

 

Skyrim paid modding was coming just before a brand new flagship release (Fallout 4) and was presumably their attempt to try it out with Skyrim first and then have it in Fallout 4 from the start. However with the large sales expected on FO4 they couldn't afford a publicity problem just before its release so they backed down to avoid losing an expected massive revenue stream.

 

Now's their chance to set a precedent for TES VI and only risk damage to their DLC sales which is a much smaller cost. At the moment they're in their development phase on at least 3 games with no new releases directly on the horizon, a lot of costs and not a lot of new sales. A new revenue stream off their existing IP with relatively minimal implementation costs is going to look very appealing to them at the moment. Particularly since they're introducing console modding and bethesda.net I really see them being likely to make another attempt for it. We'll see though.

 

Ultimately I just hope that whatever they do, they implement it well.

 

Exactly, it's all about that scrilla son. They played it close to the chest as a result of tantrum.

[Moksha8088]

Don't know why you assume Bethesda would relinquish more than 75% of the profits for the mod. Could it be their demonstrated altruism?

 

I like the Nexus. I like using a bunch of mods. On a payment system, I would try out fewer mods. My purchasing decisions would be very different than kids on a console pleading with dad to buy them that "neat sparkling sword". I would never purchase a sparkling sword. I would always take a wait and see approach to reviews and even then be sceptical because I know marketing entities like to hype their sales with planted reviews that do no reflect reality. Some mods would succeed and some would fail. Ultimately there would be less mods to choose from due to market-driven considerations.

 

If you will forgive an analogy, I lament the commercialization of Christmas although it was inevitable once the marketing got underway. There was something comforting about a celebration of joy and good tidings without the crassness of subjecting all aspects to profit and loss analysis. It is a shame that such commercialization is inevitable.

 

Wonder if a deal could be struck with Bethesda to allow the Nexus to host those mods which are not selling well. Anyway, PCs would be an afterthought. The big money would be in the sale of console mods. Consoles would give new life to the sale of sparkling swords. All those pretty Japanese adolescent school girl follower mods for Skyrim would benefit greatly from console sales and their introduction into Fallout 4 would also be met with success. However to maximize console sales for Fallout 4, modders would have to refrain from excessive blood and gore, nudity, adult themes and quests that are too difficult. As marketing would point out, you need to cater to the widest audience possible.

[hamguy21]

 

there is no reason to post any citations, it is obvious.

 

the impact it will have is many shitty mods the break the game. since there is no creation kit, there is no unified modding. people have to hack the game to get things to work and this breaks things.

I installed a mod and my textures broke.

There never is a thing such as "unified modding". A modder can just as easily "break" your textures using the CK as they can with FO4Edit.

 

I am not sorry but paid mods is real shitty and if you support it you are shitty person. If you want to earn money for your work modding is not for you. the appreciation you receive should be enough and the experience you gain should be used on your resume assuming you want to be paid to make games. if you want to make money go make a game or do it in a game that has micro transactions.

This argument is also known as "I don't want to pay money for what I can get for free and if you want to get paid for your hard work then f*** you".

 

Next you'll have people copyrighting mods so you cant improve or use what another mod author created.

it just creates a restrictive and Toxic environment, where creativity is sapped out of the system in favor of monetary gain. How many thousands of shitty mods will be created for pennies. which add up.

Last I checked, no one was holding a gun to your head and forcing you to download those thousands of shitty mods.

 

Modders pulling down their monetized content was a rage quit tactic that didn't work. They weren't forced to remove their content, they chose to. It was an inflamed situation, like someone posting a controversial video on YouTube and then removing it after the unavoidable backlash, or blocking the likes/dislikes and comments.

Yup. Getting paid for your work. Controversial, that.

 

I've been Modding games since the 90's and used mods of other peoples for years, I understand modding and the modding community.

Mods were never about monetary gain, it was always about extending the life of a game past its expiration date. it allowed for the release of very wonderful game modes which were all released for free and made with love. some became highly successful and became full blown games, Example: Killing-floor, Counter-strike, Red Orchestra ,Natrual selection, Team Fortress, Dota. These were all mods which were released for free and became so popular that people were willing to pay for a full blown game.

 

Releasing 4k Horse vagina textures for $99.99 is not really modding. I understand if you want to make money for your work but dont bring paid mods into a place where things were free.

There is always Counter-strike, TF2, or literally any other game that already has paid skins and weapons that people are willing to buy.

 

This argument is also known as "I don't want to pay money for what I can get for free and if you want to get paid for your hard work then f*** you".

Yes "f*#@ YOU"

Why should i pay for something which should have been free.

[minngarm]

 

 

there is no reason to post any citations, it is obvious.

 

the impact it will have is many shitty mods the break the game. since there is no creation kit, there is no unified modding. people have to hack the game to get things to work and this breaks things.

I installed a mod and my textures broke.

There never is a thing such as "unified modding". A modder can just as easily "break" your textures using the CK as they can with FO4Edit.

 

I am not sorry but paid mods is real shitty and if you support it you are shitty person. If you want to earn money for your work modding is not for you. the appreciation you receive should be enough and the experience you gain should be used on your resume assuming you want to be paid to make games. if you want to make money go make a game or do it in a game that has micro transactions.

This argument is also known as "I don't want to pay money for what I can get for free and if you want to get paid for your hard work then f*** you".

 

Next you'll have people copyrighting mods so you cant improve or use what another mod author created.

it just creates a restrictive and Toxic environment, where creativity is sapped out of the system in favor of monetary gain. How many thousands of shitty mods will be created for pennies. which add up.

Last I checked, no one was holding a gun to your head and forcing you to download those thousands of shitty mods.

 

Modders pulling down their monetized content was a rage quit tactic that didn't work. They weren't forced to remove their content, they chose to. It was an inflamed situation, like someone posting a controversial video on YouTube and then removing it after the unavoidable backlash, or blocking the likes/dislikes and comments.

Yup. Getting paid for your work. Controversial, that.

 

I've been Modding games since the 90's and used mods of other peoples for years, I understand modding and the modding community.

Mods were never about monetary gain, it was always about extending the life of a game past its expiration date. it allowed for the release of very wonderful game modes which were all released for free and made with love. some became highly successful and became full blown games, Example: Killing-floor, Counter-strike, Red Orchestra ,Natrual selection, Team Fortress, Dota. These were all mods which were released for free and became so popular that people were willing to pay for a full blown game.

 

Releasing 4k Horse vagina textures for $99.99 is not really modding. I understand if you want to make money for your work but dont bring paid mods into a place where things were free.

There is always Counter-strike, TF2, or literally any other game that already has paid skins and weapons that people are willing to buy.

 

This argument is also known as "I don't want to pay money for what I can get for free and if you want to get paid for your hard work then f*** you".

Yes "f*** YOU"

Why should i pay for something which should have been free.

 

You've not made any valid argument here. You basically just say that you want to continue to promote the unfair treatment of modders collectively by only allowing a small segment of modders in certain media to have the option to sell their work. Fair treatment for all modders is necessary.

 

Also the obtuse assumption that someone elses work ideas and efforts should be free is ignorant beyond all belief. The fact remains that you are putting yourself as the villain here by denying others opportunities that have literally nothing to do with you.

[Reneer]

I've been Modding games since the 90's and used mods of other peoples for years, I understand modding and the modding community.

Mods were never about monetary gain, it was always about extending the life of a game past its expiration date. it allowed for the release of very wonderful game modes which were all released for free and made with love. some became highly successful and became full blown games, Example: Killing-floor, Counter-strike, Red Orchestra ,Natrual selection, Team Fortress, Dota. These were all mods which were released for free and became so popular that people were willing to pay for a full blown game.

 

Releasing 4k Horse vagina textures for $99.99 is not really modding. I understand if you want to make money for your work but dont bring paid mods into a place where things were free.

There is always Counter-strike, TF2, or literally any other game that already has paid skins and weapons that people are willing to buy.

An appeal to tradition, a no true Scotsman, and hints of an argument from authority. Almost a trifecta. And a good dose of NIMBY to boot.

 

It's nice when people tell me all my hard work and effort is worth nothing. /s

 

Why should i pay for something which should have been free.

Because you don't get to decide if something "should" be free or not. The person making that thing gets to decide whether it is free or not. And you get to decide if you want to spend your money on it.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Reneer

[JuJooGuppy]

Eh, I prefer it stays optional (Paid modding). For a good size, well produced mod that adds content similiar to a small DLC, I will have no issue paying. But I don't think paying for a mod (like my own mods currently..) that simply retexture, or redo models, etc, on small scales. I would never charge for it myself; I didn't do enough that I feel it should be something to charge for.

I am not against it entirely, as I know first hand how much work modding can be, and how ridiculous mod users can be / how rude (Not all mind you!). I just think there needs to remain the option to go either way. Some mods can make sense on a paid scale, others just don't. I dont want to see the death of smaller mods, or modding as a whole decline due to costs.

Just my 2 caps.