Do You Think the Delayed Creation Kit Will Have a Long Term Negative Effect on Modding?

[WursWaldo]

FO4 EULA

 

Look for 'THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY.' They are using the same EULA for both the game and the editor.

[zanity]

Why is some idiot here trying to claim Bethesda wants to 'own' your mods, and can achieve that via an EULA? There is NO nation in the West whose national system of laws allows a 'contract' to STEAL the IP from an IP creator- if a so-called 'contract' of any form contains such language, it has no more legal value than used toliet paper.

 

Bethesda can OWN and CONTROL its redistributable assets used in mods- and that is it. Well Beth could also enter into a VOLUNTARY contract to pay you for the mods you create (what the law knows as an 'exchange of value'), and by doing so gain rights over your mod, but that would be no different from a book publisher paying an author for distribution rights over his/her book.

 

What Beth can do- and this is the ABSOLUTE LIMIT of their legal ability, regardless of ANY wording in an EULA, is control your ability to distribute a mod you create IF said mod contains Beth assets- and ONLY if it contains Beth assets. They have ZERO power to control anything you make with their tools, so long as the emitted data is free from Beth IP.

 

But lets get real. Beth is no Microsoft, despite being a division of Zenimax, and wants nothing to do with hurting the PC mod scene. As far as Beth is concerned, PC mods are the SOLE business of the authors, unless said authors are attempting to sell Beth assets contained within the mod. Console mods will be a different issue, because of Microsoft, Sony, and the perceived "children's playground" that is console gaming.

 

The 'trick' with console mods is that they only can work if published by a corporate entity- something the ordinary mod author has no control over. So a console mod, paid, free or otherwise, must meet the needs of the authorising publishing entity(s)- and this is an issue of POWER, not any language in an EULA. For console mods, the publisher is your BOSS, and if the boss doesn't like your mod, you are simply stuffed.

 

Now it is up to you whether you continue to feed the troll.

Edited March 29, 2016 by zanity

[WursWaldo]

<SNIP>

No documentation, only uniformed opinion. Someone lays out some hard truths and shares information and your response is 'idiot' and 'troll'. Good job on contributing to the conversation.

 

In spite of your ad hominem, there is nothing wrong with a rational discussion about the ins and outs of FO4 modding, what the licenses mean, what might or might not happen on Bethesda.net; or anything else covered in this thread. You simply don't like what is being said so you're going to try and censor the discussion until it meets your personal preferences. Sorry, not everyone is going to squee like a fan boy at every move Bethesda makes. Some people are critical thinkers. If you're not then sit quietly in a corner and do some self-examination. It is the path to happiness.

[Reneer]

So the FO4 EULA states that Bethesda owns the content. The Bethesda.net EULA states modders own the content, unless the Editor EULA says they don't (what is underlined above). And you don't own it because that is exactly what the FO4 EULA states. They aren't contradicting one another. "You own it, unless you don't."

The FO4 EULA states that Bethesda owns the "customized game materials". The Bethesda.Net EULA states that modders own what they develop. The Bethesda.Net EULA was written more recently than the FO4 EULA and also is the only document we have that relates to the Bethesda.Net terms of service.

 

The two EULAs most certainly do contradict one another if we assume that "customized game materials" in the FO4 EULA is synonymous to "game mods" in the Bethesda.Net EULA. And if "customized game materials" is not synonymous to "game mods" then the Bethesda.Net EULA states that we as the developers own those "game mods" and the FO4 EULA states that we don't own the "customized game materials" (whatever those are).

 

There is no Editor Tool (read: Creation Kit / GECK) EULA that is out yet. FO4 itself is not an "Editor Tool" and therefore the FO4 EULA does not supersede the Bethesda.Net EULA, nor does the FO4 EULA cover the Creation Kit / GECK.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Reneer

[WursWaldo]

I disagree, but we'll see. :thumbsup:

[Reneer]

I disagree, but we'll see. :thumbsup:

Hopefully Soon™ (trademark is co-owned by Zenimax Media Inc. and Valve Corporation) :P

[WursWaldo]

@ Reneer

Okay, this is from the legal terms at https://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

 

 

1. Game Mods

Content also includes Game Mods. The term “Game Mod” means downloadable, user-generated Content developed or created by You or a third party using an Editor Tool (as defined below). In certain cases, as determined by ZeniMax, Game Mods may be made available to other users of a Service or a Game and in such cases, such other users may download the Game Mods from ZeniMax or third parties and use such Game Mods in connection with playing a Game or receiving a Service from ZeniMax.

If You desire to develop or create one or more Game Mods, then You will be required to download from a ZeniMax website or otherwise gain access to via a ZeniMax website one or more software tools through which You may create or develop Game Mods (each such tool is an “Editor Tool”). To obtain a copy of or get access to any such Editor Tool, You will be required to agree to the terms of a separate EULA (the “Editor EULA”). If there is a conflict between the terms and conditions in any such Editor EULA and the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, the terms in the Editor EULA will control over the conflicting terms in these Terms of Service but solely for purpose of the specific Editor Tool and not for any other purpose. Please review the terms in the Editor EULA carefully.

So if the editor's EULA conflicts with the Bethesda.net TOS then the editor's license takes precedence. That means for right now the FO4 EULA that includes provisions for an editor is the standard. Agreed?

[Reneer]

@ Reneer

Okay, this is from the legal terms at https://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

 

 

1. Game Mods

Content also includes Game Mods. The term “Game Mod” means downloadable, user-generated Content developed or created by You or a third party using an Editor Tool (as defined below). In certain cases, as determined by ZeniMax, Game Mods may be made available to other users of a Service or a Game and in such cases, such other users may download the Game Mods from ZeniMax or third parties and use such Game Mods in connection with playing a Game or receiving a Service from ZeniMax.

 

If You desire to develop or create one or more Game Mods, then You will be required to download from a ZeniMax website or otherwise gain access to via a ZeniMax website one or more software tools through which You may create or develop Game Mods (each such tool is an “Editor Tool”). To obtain a copy of or get access to any such Editor Tool, You will be required to agree to the terms of a separate EULA (the “Editor EULA”). If there is a conflict between the terms and conditions in any such Editor EULA and the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, the terms in the Editor EULA will control over the conflicting terms in these Terms of Service but solely for purpose of the specific Editor Tool and not for any other purpose. Please review the terms in the Editor EULA carefully.

 

 

So if the editor's EULA conflicts with the Bethesda.net TOS then the editor's license takes precedence. That means for right now the FO4 EULA that includes provisions for an editor is the standard. Agreed?

No, because Fallout 4 is not an Editor Tool. It was never designed as an Editor Tool. Thus the FO4 EULA does not override the Bethesda.Net EULA. The Bethesda.Net EULA contains just as much "provision" as the FO4 EULA in regards to game mods, and specifically mentions game mods, rather than the FO4 EULA "customized game materials".

Edited March 29, 2016 by Reneer

[PoliteRaider]

 

So if the editor's EULA conflicts with the Bethesda.net TOS then the editor's license takes precedence. That means for right now the FO4 EULA that includes provisions for an editor is the standard. Agreed?

 

I know you're not talking to me but you're still calling Fallout 4 EULA via an Editor reference. This is a namespace error and type mismatch. Your legal code will not compile. Instructions received by Judge interpreter do not match expected syntax.

[WursWaldo]

I disagree. I am fully aware the FO4 game is not an editor. I am also aware the verbiage for an editor is in fact in the EULA for the game itself. I have not implied the game is an editor, nor does the EULA imply the game is an editor. The section for the editor in the game's EULA is a separate clause and is clearly identified as such. It is not treated as a subsection of the game portion of the license. This is obvious.

We can't conveniently ignore or remove an entire applicable clause simply because it conflicts with our notions or an after-the-fact TOS. Bethesda can remove it (and they probably will when the CK is released with its own EULA). All we can do is mull this lunacy over and try to figure out what they are up to; and make ourselves crazy in the process.