Do You Think the Delayed Creation Kit Will Have a Long Term Negative Effect on Modding?

[Reneer]

Like I said, in practice, Bethesda states that all mods are owned by the mod developer. Bethesda isn't trying to steal mods, they are just trying to make sure that they don't get sued for having similar ideas and releasing them in the future. That's why you have contradictory statements.

The FO4 EULA does not cover Bethesda.Net. Or uploading to Bethesda.Net. Or anything even related to Bethesda.Net. When you upload a mod to Bethesda.Net, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of Bethesda.Net and they have nothing to do with the FO4 EULA. You can't have it both ways: Either Bethesda owns game mods or they don't. We have two contradictory EULAs, and only one that has anything to do with Bethesda.Net: The Bethesda.Net EULA. The FO4 EULA doesn't mention game mods, only "customized game materials", while the Bethesda.Net EULA specifically mentions game mods.

 

Furthermore, the Bethesda.Net EULA goes into great detail in defining different types of user-generated content and makes certain that game mods are in a separate, but related, category, because mod developers own their mods. The FO4 EULA is nowhere near as specific, thus, the Bethesda.Net EULA should take precedence because it defines the terms explicitly.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Reneer

[qnvtwesoegv]

Is it me or is there literally one dozen posts in this thread that directly relates to the thread title?

[Wolfmod]

As I see it Bethesda prioritized testing base game patches, finilizing first DLCs (which will bring profit, unlike the release of CK) and preparing Bethesda.net, while their original team already got divided and assigned to new projects. April might have had been the preliminary CK release date from the very beginning and everything seems neatly orginized. Bethesda most likely didn't reveal any CK info to not encourage potential customers to wait for modding tools.

 

In the long run impact on modding will be minimal. We will just experience slower start untill more FO4 owners get back to playing and modding the game again. Don't forget autors got the hang of new way textures and meshes are edited not too long ago. If anything we will be more well equiped and experienced when it comes to creating new assets for CK based mods like quests. Modders who are serious about this already started recruiting voice actors and recording new dialogue lines.

 

One point of contention here. The OP made the claim that modding would negatively interfere with DLC and you have said that the CK would not impact on profits. I have to disagree with both assertions. A mod that increases the number of factions, a mod that alters or builds on story elements, a mod that allows you to build the Taj Mahal and thousands of other mods that add content or alter the playing experience increases player involvement, keeps the game current, adds game news stories, and keeps the player base playing. Those mods that don't work with the DLC have low download rates and the profit potential of a game made dynamic by mods is astronomical.

 

The most developed part of this game was the marketing. Prior to release all news of the game concerned its features. However, every feature whether it is the number of followers, follower mechanics, settlement building and settlement size, building structures and materials that discourage grand designs are all limited. It was as if when given the option of whether to fully implement a feature or to limit it and squeeze in three more, they chose the latter. The question is, can the game engine survive with each feature fully implemented? What will happen to the games run on low end machines when all the limits are removed? And, for those waiting for a statement from Bethesda, I thought that stripping my "plugins.text" file to disable all my mods was a pretty clear and loud statement - "DO NOT MOD THIS GAME".

 

Many have claimed that the removal of mod enabling and ordering (clicking below the eye of the power armor on the launcher graphic) and the stripping of the "Plugins.txt" file was merely to help Bethesda's testing and troubleshooting but such draconian measures did not come with an explanation or an announcement. It was a clear statement in itself.

[minngarm]

 

As I see it Bethesda prioritized testing base game patches, finilizing first DLCs (which will bring profit, unlike the release of CK) and preparing Bethesda.net, while their original team already got divided and assigned to new projects. April might have had been the preliminary CK release date from the very beginning and everything seems neatly orginized. Bethesda most likely didn't reveal any CK info to not encourage potential customers to wait for modding tools.

 

In the long run impact on modding will be minimal. We will just experience slower start untill more FO4 owners get back to playing and modding the game again. Don't forget autors got the hang of new way textures and meshes are edited not too long ago. If anything we will be more well equiped and experienced when it comes to creating new assets for CK based mods like quests. Modders who are serious about this already started recruiting voice actors and recording new dialogue lines.

 

One point of contention here. The OP made the claim that modding would negatively interfere with DLC and you have said that the CK would not impact on profits. I have to disagree with both assertions. A mod that increases the number of factions, a mod that alters or builds on story elements, a mod that allows you to build the Taj Mahal and thousands of other mods that add content or alter the playing experience increases player involvement, keeps the game current, adds game news stories, and keeps the player base playing. Those mods that don't work with the DLC have low download rates and the profit potential of a game made dynamic by mods is astronomical.

 

The most developed part of this game was the marketing. Prior to release all news of the game concerned its features. However, every feature whether it is the number of followers, follower mechanics, settlement building and settlement size, building structures and materials that discourage grand designs are all limited. It was as if when given the option of whether to fully implement a feature or to limit it and squeeze in three more, they chose the latter. The question is, can the game engine survive with each feature fully implemented? What will happen to the games run on low end machines when all the limits are removed? And, for those waiting for a statement from Bethesda, I thought that stripping my "plugins.text" file to disable all my mods was a pretty clear and loud statement - "DO NOT MOD THIS GAME".

 

Many have claimed that the removal of mod enabling and ordering (clicking below the eye of the power armor on the launcher graphic) and the stripping of the "Plugins.txt" file was merely to help Bethesda's testing and troubleshooting but such draconian measures did not come with an explanation or an announcement. It was a clear statement in itself.

 

You mistake a aspect of the BETA testing that is made to insure proper BETA testing as a indication of an anti mod behavior. It is not. It is simply forcing those in the open BETA to not use them as frankly, that is counter intuitive to playing a BETA.

[JuJooGuppy]

Its a little off topic, but while talking about features included / removed by bethesda, and DLC... if you go through and extract the original vanilla meshes like I did, there is actually a folder called "create a bot", containing a lot of pieces for the framework of automatron. And of course, the DLC robot parts are contained in a create a bot folder, too.

So, I have no doubt in my mind that automatron was originally intended w/ the vanilla game. The big question is, did they start to implement it and simply ran out of time, and left the resources in to make it easy to pick up where they left off for a DLC? Or did they intentionally pull the feature to make an extra $10 per DLC download.

I like to believe, perhaps naively, that it was the former rather than the latter, because I quite like Bethesda. But it its still an interesting thought regardless.

[Wolfmod]

 

 

As I see it Bethesda prioritized testing base game patches, finilizing first DLCs (which will bring profit, unlike the release of CK) and preparing Bethesda.net, while their original team already got divided and assigned to new projects. April might have had been the preliminary CK release date from the very beginning and everything seems neatly orginized. Bethesda most likely didn't reveal any CK info to not encourage potential customers to wait for modding tools.

 

In the long run impact on modding will be minimal. We will just experience slower start untill more FO4 owners get back to playing and modding the game again. Don't forget autors got the hang of new way textures and meshes are edited not too long ago. If anything we will be more well equiped and experienced when it comes to creating new assets for CK based mods like quests. Modders who are serious about this already started recruiting voice actors and recording new dialogue lines.

 

One point of contention here. The OP made the claim that modding would negatively interfere with DLC and you have said that the CK would not impact on profits. I have to disagree with both assertions. A mod that increases the number of factions, a mod that alters or builds on story elements, a mod that allows you to build the Taj Mahal and thousands of other mods that add content or alter the playing experience increases player involvement, keeps the game current, adds game news stories, and keeps the player base playing. Those mods that don't work with the DLC have low download rates and the profit potential of a game made dynamic by mods is astronomical.

 

The most developed part of this game was the marketing. Prior to release all news of the game concerned its features. However, every feature whether it is the number of followers, follower mechanics, settlement building and settlement size, building structures and materials that discourage grand designs are all limited. It was as if when given the option of whether to fully implement a feature or to limit it and squeeze in three more, they chose the latter. The question is, can the game engine survive with each feature fully implemented? What will happen to the games run on low end machines when all the limits are removed? And, for those waiting for a statement from Bethesda, I thought that stripping my "plugins.text" file to disable all my mods was a pretty clear and loud statement - "DO NOT MOD THIS GAME".

 

Many have claimed that the removal of mod enabling and ordering (clicking below the eye of the power armor on the launcher graphic) and the stripping of the "Plugins.txt" file was merely to help Bethesda's testing and troubleshooting but such draconian measures did not come with an explanation or an announcement. It was a clear statement in itself.

 

You mistake a aspect of the BETA testing that is made to insure proper BETA testing as a indication of an anti mod behavior. It is not. It is simply forcing those in the open BETA to not use them as frankly, that is counter intuitive to playing a BETA.

 

No I don't. This has nothing to do with a BETA or BETA testing. I never ran a BETA version and the stripping of "Plugins.text" affected everyone with modded .esps or .esms. The EXCUSE given by players for why Bethesda callously sabotaged everyone with modded games was that they needed everyone to be running vanilla games to help fix the many bugs. I rejected this because when opening the stripped "plugin.text" file there were no announcements of "We are working hard on the CK and we ask you to be patient... blah blah" or "We apologize for the untimely interference but for now we really need... blah blah". No, what i read was a message that was both confronting and insulting.

[Sybsidian]

Well looking at how most of the best mods for skyrim were made 2-3 years after the release.... NO. People need to calm down. We have all been there waiting for the Microwave to finish making a meal that would normally have taken an hour to prepare.

[JuJooGuppy]

 

Wolfmod, on 31 Mar 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:

minngarm, on 30 Mar 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

Wolfmod, on 30 Mar 2016 - 8:13 PM, said:

BlackRoseOfThorns, on 04 Mar 2016 - 4:01 PM, said:
As I see it Bethesda prioritized testing base game patches, finilizing first DLCs (which will bring profit, unlike the release of CK) and preparing Bethesda.net, while their original team already got divided and assigned to new projects. April might have had been the preliminary CK release date from the very beginning and everything seems neatly orginized. Bethesda most likely didn't reveal any CK info to not encourage potential customers to wait for modding tools.

In the long run impact on modding will be minimal. We will just experience slower start untill more FO4 owners get back to playing and modding the game again. Don't forget autors got the hang of new way textures and meshes are edited not too long ago. If anything we will be more well equiped and experienced when it comes to creating new assets for CK based mods like quests. Modders who are serious about this already started recruiting voice actors and recording new dialogue lines.

One point of contention here. The OP made the claim that modding would negatively interfere with DLC and you have said that the CK would not impact on profits. I have to disagree with both assertions. A mod that increases the number of factions, a mod that alters or builds on story elements, a mod that allows you to build the Taj Mahal and thousands of other mods that add content or alter the playing experience increases player involvement, keeps the game current, adds game news stories, and keeps the player base playing. Those mods that don't work with the DLC have low download rates and the profit potential of a game made dynamic by mods is astronomical.

The most developed part of this game was the marketing. Prior to release all news of the game concerned its features. However, every feature whether it is the number of followers, follower mechanics, settlement building and settlement size, building structures and materials that discourage grand designs are all limited. It was as if when given the option of whether to fully implement a feature or to limit it and squeeze in three more, they chose the latter. The question is, can the game engine survive with each feature fully implemented? What will happen to the games run on low end machines when all the limits are removed? And, for those waiting for a statement from Bethesda, I thought that stripping my "plugins.text" file to disable all my mods was a pretty clear and loud statement - "DO NOT MOD THIS GAME".

Many have claimed that the removal of mod enabling and ordering (clicking below the eye of the power armor on the launcher graphic) and the stripping of the "Plugins.txt" file was merely to help Bethesda's testing and troubleshooting but such draconian measures did not come with an explanation or an announcement. It was a clear statement in itself.

You mistake a aspect of the BETA testing that is made to insure proper BETA testing as a indication of an anti mod behavior. It is not. It is simply forcing those in the open BETA to not use them as frankly, that is counter intuitive to playing a BETA.

No I don't. This has nothing to do with a BETA or BETA testing. I never ran a BETA version and the stripping of "Plugins.text" affected everyone with modded .esps or .esms. The EXCUSE given by players for why Bethesda callously sabotaged everyone with modded games was that they needed everyone to be running vanilla games to help fix the many bugs. I rejected this because when opening the stripped "plugin.text" file there were no announcements of "We are working hard on the CK and we ask you to be patient... blah blah" or "We apologize for the untimely interference but for now we really need... blah blah". No, what i read was a message that was both confronting and insulting.

 

 

 

 

They have posted a couple of times, the first post clearly asked that you disable mods for BETA testing, because they want feedback on the beta itself.. they are concerned with getting it working properly, not whether your mods crash it in its current form due to conflicts and such.

The amount of people that seem to think Bethesda suddenly generated some sort of extreme hatred and prejudice towards modding really confuse me... there has been no indication of this whatsoever. If the CK comes out and Bethesda starts trying to make all mods come through their site, and sets the game to eliminate mods not from their website, or some other obnoxious and ridiculous concept, THEN I will admit I was wrong and that they are out to destroy modding...

But that simply isn't whats going on, at all... they have done nothing wrong. IT IS A DANG BETA TESTING, FOLKS. For a free content update. They are not sabotaging your game, you can easily start it up with all the mods you want right now if you dont opt into the BETA TEST. Whether they actaully triedto disable mods for the beta really is irrelevant, because they certainly aren't at fault for doing so. They said that they didn't do it intentionally, and honestly that may very well be the case. Perhaps they left in a change they used internally to disable their own mods that they may have made testing the CK, and didn't disable that function for the BETA. They also probably assumed most people would understand and disable mods to try a BETA.

But I guess that's assuming a lot, lol.

[TeamBacon]

 

But I guess that's assuming a lot, lol.

 

You forget what site you are on... This is the Nexus, basically an organized Bethesda hate club.

 

There is a definite reason Bethesda was releasing this BEFORE they released the Creation Kit. Bethesda hasn't done anything to stop all the unauthorized modding going on because they respect modders, but those modders can't show the same respect and let Bethesda run a Beta test the way they want to run it.

 

Keep on biting the hand that feeds you.

[Foky]

 

 

But I guess that's assuming a lot, lol.

 

You forget what site you are on... This is the Nexus, basically an organized Bethesda hate club.

 

There is a definite reason Bethesda was releasing this BEFORE they released the Creation Kit. Bethesda hasn't done anything to stop all the unauthorized modding going on because they respect modders, but those modders can't show the same respect and let Bethesda run a Beta test the way they want to run it.

 

Keep on biting the hand that feeds you.

 

 

Saying that Bethesda is the hand that feeds the modders is a bit exaggerated, considering that the mods extend the longevity of the games. It is rather strange that Bethesda delayed the CK release after they release 2 DLC's that could have been rather simple mods. As for the Beta test I agree, it's their beta and they want to make sure it works and it is balanced, as far as I am aware PC users are also Beta testing for the consoles.