Fallout 4 Beginners Guide

[gromulos]

I

 

I've restarted the task of putting everything back. I've run into an incident that seems to be relevant to the issue before.

I just installed True Storms, sorted with LOOT, and this is what Wyre is showing me.

 

If I move "TrueStormsFO4-NukaWorld-FH-Compat.esp anywhere else-- up or down-- it goes from Yellow to Orange/Red. It won't let me move DLCCoast.esm under TrueStormsFO4.esm.

 

I see the box on the right that says "LO", but I don't understand what "MI" stands for and I also couldn't find it in the Wyre wiki... my best guess would be "Master Index"? And unless that's the box you're talking about, I don't see the box you were referencing that should tell me the correct load order. I have to admit to being suspect of "MI" being the correct order anyway, as it's telling me to put a mod ABOVE an official DLC.

However, if I load it all into FO4Edit, I don't get any error, just "Background Loader: finished" like I was seeing before.

In thatr particular situation you don't move DLC's. In fact you NEVER move DLC's around. what you need to do is;

 

1) go into Xedit ( FO4Edit )

2) load true storms only and let Xedit do it's thing

3) then when it finishes right click ( or highlight ) True Storms and click Sort Masters

4) then close the program and it "should" ask you to save the change, do so

 

When you go back into Wrye, you should see that the load order is correct now.

 

The reason you are having this problem with that mod is because when the mod Author made the mod he or she did not have their own files in the correct load order.

 

This entire process is covered in section 2.5 D - Appendix 1

 

Please read the guide and follow it step by step, it's not going to help you if you skip and jump around or miss something.

[EldritchEquations]

That's what I thought, as per never moving DLC's. Thus my confusion.

Thank you, the help is very much appreciated. It wasn't that I skipped around or missed anything, I was confused. I know a lot of people have a tendency to not read things, but I did, thus my comment earlier:
"Posted 27 December 2020 - 12:22 AM

1) Yes, in Wyre. I did understand that, but moving them around didn't turn them green. When I clicked on an orange mod and clicked "Show Masters" or "List Masters" I think it is, the files were already in the order shown in the box. The only thing that turned them green was using "Resort Masters" from the bottom of your guide. I got everything in Wyre to turn green that way, but the game was still crashing."

I had the terminology off, but I did read the entire guide. I was asking at the start what the difference is between when you must move a mod around, or when you must Sort Masters. I didn't know what particular signal I should be looking for that moving a mod around won't do anything and to sort the masters instead, and the answer seems to be: when it isn't possible to move it because the mod author didn't have their own files in order.

Whatever was causing my game to crash before is fixed now after getting rid of everything and starting back with a totally clean, new game. I think in my attempt to fix a load order issue, not quite understanding what to do when, I borked something up. In any case, armed with that knowledge and a little more confidence, I'm back to it. Thank you!

[JimmyRJump]

I've restarted the task of putting everything back. I've run into an incident that seems to be relevant to the issue before.

 

I just installed True Storms, sorted with LOOT, and this is what Wyre is showing me.

 

If I move "TrueStormsFO4-NukaWorld-FH-Compat.esp anywhere else-- up or down-- it goes from Yellow to Orange/Red. It won't let me move DLCCoast.esm under TrueStormsFO4.esm.

 

I see the box on the right that says "LO", but I don't understand what "MI" stands for and I also couldn't find it in the Wyre wiki... my best guess would be "Master Index"? And unless that's the box you're talking about, I don't see the box you were referencing that should tell me the correct load order. I have to admit to being suspect of "MI" being the correct order anyway, as it's telling me to put a mod ABOVE an official DLC.

 

However, if I load it all into FO4Edit, I don't get any error, just "Background Loader: finished" like I was seeing before.

It's not about NOT moving DLC around, it's about using the proper mod manager. Nothing wrong with Wrye Bash. On the contrary, it's a very good tool. But (there's always a 'but' isn't there) In fact, it's more about knowing the set (like, carved in stone) load order of mod extensions. This load order can't be changed by LOOT or any mod manager because it's the order the game HAS to load mods/DLC, first and foremost because most main assets need to be loaded first because other assets depend on them. That's basically why you have different extensions like ESM (Elder Scrolls Master) and esp (Elder Scrolls Plugin) and later ESL (Elder Scrolls Light Plugin). Why 'Elder Scrolls, I hear you think? Because the original system of adding mods was developed for the Elder Scrolls series of games.

 

Anyway, I apologise for the intrusion (and I certainly don't want to take anything away from Gromulos' excellent responses and advice) but I just wanted to make clear that there's a certain order in which you need to use mod managers, just like you need to observe an order in which the game has to load mod extensions. And, as a fully personal advice, don't be tempted to switch to Vortex. It's a good mod manager, but it has too many flaws and inconveniances (I hope that's a proper English word) to mod comfortably. I'm not an expert at anyting, but I've tried over 5000 mods in FO4 with more than 700 in one try (meaning, the game had more than 700 mods loaded) without too many crashes. Getting the game to run with such an amount of mods is a small miracle in itself, but it's the result of more than five years trial and error. And, I must add, with Nexus Mod Manager as the main mod manager.

[gromulos]

@JimmyRJump

 

This is a compliment, plain and simple. ( My wife tells me I am too brash sometimes lol :P )

 

Thank you very much for that detailed explanation, i would like to add it to the guide as a quote and I will give you credit for it. I don't mind when someone comes in and helps like you do, but we both know, that unfortunately 99% of the times they are talking off the top of their heads and have no clue what nonsense they are spouting, I am sure you can give several examples just like I could lol .

 

When I wrote the original guide for Skyrim, i spent 6 months gathering information AND breaking my game over 100 times to get that info as near to 100% correct as possible. Along the way I've had some great people interject their own advice like you, DubiousIntent, alt3rn1ty & Sharlikran - both of the last 2 contributors to Wrye Bash . In fact I drove the people in the original chat room completely bonkers with all my questions lol .

[EldritchEquations]

@JimmyRJump I've never used anything but NMM. It's what I started with back in the day and it's what I've stuck with. Honestly, any advice is good advice at this point. I've been modding my games for some years now and I still feel like a dunce.

Which, I'm sad to say, I am still here. I've been testing this loadout slowly for months when I have the spare time, adding things in no more than 5 at a time and testing around the worldspace as advised. Everything seemed to be OK in testing. Wyre shows everything OK. I was so excited because I've been thinking that it's taken me months, but maybe I finally have a working game!

As soon as I try to enter Diamond City, it crashes. I figured out how to look at my saves in Wyre, and they look fine, too. I disabled everything and tried "coc diamondcityorigin", and it loaded fine several times in a row. I slowly enabled mods one by one to figure out which one it is... except I can't replicate consistent crashes. I feel like I'm grasping at straws. As soon as I think I've isolated what the problem mod is, another mod that has never caused me issue is suddenly also causing the CTD. I've disabled and enabled the suspected "problem" mods, with no consistent CTD for any of them, only going by "I disabled X, it crashed resolving into DC, let's go to Y", and the problem continuing to persist even after I disable them. I'm wary of even continuing to look for the problem because experience thus far has shown me that something else will shortly rear its head.

I have some 3k hours in Fallout 4 since release, most of that with a heavily modded game, but I can't for the life of me get a working game for about the last six months. I've reinstalled every single mod, and the game, so many times, read and read... I'm so exhausted and discouraged I'm just ready to throw in the towel. Is there a system out there for Fallout 4 like Wabbajack, where I could just take someone else's working mod load?

[gromulos]

@JimmyRJump I've never used anything but NMM. It's what I started with back in the day and it's what I've stuck with. Honestly, any advice is good advice at this point. I've been modding my games for some years now and I still feel like a dunce.

 

Which, I'm sad to say, I am still here. I've been testing this loadout slowly for months when I have the spare time, adding things in no more than 5 at a time and testing around the worldspace as advised. Everything seemed to be OK in testing. Wyre shows everything OK. I was so excited because I've been thinking that it's taken me months, but maybe I finally have a working game!

 

As soon as I try to enter Diamond City, it crashes. I figured out how to look at my saves in Wyre, and they look fine, too. I disabled everything and tried "coc diamondcityorigin", and it loaded fine several times in a row. I slowly enabled mods one by one to figure out which one it is... except I can't replicate consistent crashes. I feel like I'm grasping at straws. As soon as I think I've isolated what the problem mod is, another mod that has never caused me issue is suddenly also causing the CTD. I've disabled and enabled the suspected "problem" mods, with no consistent CTD for any of them, only going by "I disabled X, it crashed resolving into DC, let's go to Y", and the problem continuing to persist even after I disable them. I'm wary of even continuing to look for the problem because experience thus far has shown me that something else will shortly rear its head.

 

I have some 3k hours in Fallout 4 since release, most of that with a heavily modded game, but I can't for the life of me get a working game for about the last six months. I've reinstalled every single mod, and the game, so many times, read and read... I'm so exhausted and discouraged I'm just ready to throw in the towel. Is there a system out there for Fallout 4 like Wabbajack, where I could just take someone else's working mod load?

One thing I would like to ask is this: When you are testing all these mods, are you using the same save once everything has tested good?

 

Are you using a save that at ANY time included a mod that is no longer in your load order? If the answer is yes that is your problem.

 

Testing mods is one thing, but time and time again I've seen too many people have the same exact problem you are having because they use the test save to play the game once all the mods have tested out to be "good". A test save is just that, once you have all your mods tested, working together, and no problems, that is when you toss the save and start a new game with a NEW save.

 

Hope this helps

[EldritchEquations]

Nope, not using the same save. It's taken me months from a combination of what free time I have and wanting to do this right. When I started, I made a clean save with the base Nate in a completely vanilla game just after opening the vault door but before getting on the elevator. Basically, right before it asks you if you're OK with this character. I did all of my testing on that and never saved any of the testing, because I assumed it was just that, testing. I have heard "Thank you for choosing Vault tec" so... many... times...

I'd install 5 mods. Load up that save just before the elevator. Wait a minute or two. Go up the elevator. Take two steps off. Wait another few minutes. Save, exit, reopen. Wait another minute just to be sure any scripts were taking their time. Then go wherever to test the mod-- Sanctuary for settlements, worldspaces or interiors for those or NPCs, major areas like Concord, Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill.

Everything was fine in testing so a couple days ago, I started a new game finally. I thought everything was working fine so I took my sweet time going to Diamond City. Following Piper in, it crashed, and I thought, huh, that's weird... maybe it's a one-off. Tried again but no joy. A couple times, it will let me in, but if I save, exit, and try to reload, it crashes.

[gromulos]

sounds like to me you have a broken script

[EldritchEquations]

How would I find out for sure? Does that mean another reinstall? (cries)

Someone on another forum suggested I check True Storms, that the weather change might be kicking in and causing a crash. Especially since I have multiple mods that edit Diamond City. It said on their mod pages that they were all compatible, but NaiRae seems to think it may be too much. Considering she makes excellent mods that I've been using for years with no problems, I tend to think she knows what she's talking about.

With the crashing, I've already abandoned my new game and gone back to testing. RIP Warren, we hardly knew ye. When I don't feel like tossing my PC out a window, I'll test True Storms next.

[gromulos]

set aside the testing right now

 

enable all the mods you had for Warren and start the game with them all enabled

once out of the vault use the console commands to teleport to outside diamond city and then approach piper and play all that through

see if it crashes again

if it doesn't then it was a broken script

if it does then it is one of the mods

 

let me know

Edited February 16, 2021 by gromulos