Are we causing most of our problems?

[kvnchrist]

I've been contemplating this for a very long time. As all of you know, I am the product of a highly structured up-bringing, trying to fit myself into a much wider world. My trips in the military to other countries has opened my eyes to a wider, more tolerant world. The main thing that always strikes me is the overwhelming quagmire of repression in this country when anything of a sexual nature is brought up in public.

 

Most people, in private talk about a good many things, including sexual orientation, but when the discussion goes beyond a defined group of people the subject almost becomes toxic. This mindset has effected all walks of life and all age groups. The whole mindset has created such a strong sense of denial of reality that it has driven people underground and broken up families.

 

Always, I've heard the term Shame and Morales set up as some kind of a barricade in the discussion of topics that many are unwilling to address, because they are so stigmatized by such topics. I've heard, so many times, people talking about the repression of women in the middle east, because they hide their women in Burkas. Well, what's worse. The hiding of individual women in Burkas or the hiding of whole realms of expression, by making such topics Taboo.

 

I wonder if many of the problems that are so insurmountable would be so, If so many would stop denying that they even exist.

 

(1) Would there be as many rapes if Prostitution was legal. I know rape isn't about sex, but about power, but could it not help with those who can't seem to catch the eye of a lady

 

(2) Would there be so much drug violence and overcrowding in our prisons if the lesser drugs like marijuana and hash were decriminalized. Would it not help in the increasing revenues and our sagging economy?

 

(3) Would we have as many problems to solve if we were to except a wider degree of humanity (gays, transsexuals, foreigners), and above all, listen to what they have to say.

 

Is it fear of the unknown that defines our comfort zone or the fear that we might find just how delusional that area of comfort is.

[Sync182]

(1) Would there be as many rapes if Prostitution was legal. I know rape isn't about sex, but about power, but could it not help with those who can't seem to catch the eye of a lady

Rape is about power, not how freely (and, in the case of prostitution, I use that term loosely ;) ) available sex may or may not be. Prostitution IS legal in many parts of the world, and rapes still occur on an all-too-frequent basis. Rapists get their kicks from the power they gain over their victim(s), and prostitution doesn't permit this kind of power.

 

(2) Would there be so much drug violence and overcrowding in our prisons if the lesser drugs like marijuana and hash were decriminalized. Would it not help in the increasing revenues and our sagging economy?

Drug Dealers woud just find new ways to get back their market share. Opium. Heroin. Cocaine. Ecstasy. Amphetamines. GHB. LSD. The list goes on. Each time a new drug comes out, it is in part because the older drugs don't deliver the kick the takers want. Decirminalising "soft" drugs isn't the answer.

 

(3) Would we have as many problems to solve if we were to except accept a wider degree of humanity (gays, transsexuals, foreigners), and above all, listen to what they have to say.

(fixed that for ya :thumbsup: )

You'd like to think that there'd be a greater acceptance of diversity, wouldn't you? People have opinions, however, and the strength of our own ego determines how much weight we give to both our opinoins and the opinions of others. Problems will always be there, and they will not vanish until fundamentalists (regardless of their particular ideology) wake up and realise that they are causing the problems they claim to have the solutions for.

[grannywils]

I found the above two posts quite interesting and certainly not diametrically opposed to one another.

 

My answer to the somewhat oversimplified OP question would be, yes.

 

Nothing can exist in a vacuum. We create just about everything there is around us, including and most especially all the chaos. If we do not choose to relax and let others be themselves, we will constantly be in turmoil. Of course I am not speaking of allowing rapists to violate their victims, so please do not jump all over my case. We would have to go back a bit farther to determine why the rapist feels the need to exhibit this power, when he so obviously feels powerless. But that is a topic for another thread.

 

The OP makes a good point about the repression that exists in our society. Perhaps if we were able to be more open about our feelings and could express ourselves without the attendent "shame", we would be less likely to express it through either violence or the excoriation of our fellow man for his expressions. We are, in fact allowed to be different. And wouldn't it be a dreary world if we were not.

[Aurielius]

I found the above two posts quite interesting and certainly not diametrically opposed to one another.

 

My answer to the somewhat oversimplified OP question would be, yes.

 

Nothing can exist in a vacuum. We create just about everything there is around us, including and most especially all the chaos. If we do not choose to relax and let others be themselves, we will constantly be in turmoil. Of course I am not speaking of allowing rapists to violate their victims, so please do not jump all over my case. We would have to go back a bit farther to determine why the rapist feels the need to exhibit this power, when he so obviously feels powerless. But that is a topic for another thread.

 

The OP makes a good point about the repression that exists in our society. Perhaps if we were able to be more open about our feelings and could express ourselves without the attendent "shame", we would be less likely to express it through either violence or the excoriation of our fellow man for his expressions. We are, in fact allowed to be different. And wouldn't it be a dreary world if we were not.

Just curious but why do Liberals think that it always a matter of understanding the malefactor and that if we just search hard enough there might be some remediation in behavior? There are such things as evil people and there are two solutions for these types, prison or death, depending in the severity of the criminal act. Shame at least is a moral response to unacceptable societal behavior, a little more shame in todays society might not go amiss.

[JimboUK]

(1) Would there be as many rapes if Prostitution was legal. I know rape isn't about sex, but about power, but could it not help with those who can't seem to catch the eye of a lady

 

I don't think it would make much difference, as you say rape is about power not sex. That said I think it should be legalised for other reasons, a safer environment for workers, the removal of criminals from the industry, health checks and the tax would help with the deficit.

 

(2) Would there be so much drug violence and overcrowding in our prisons if the lesser drugs like marijuana and hash were decriminalized. Would it not help in the increasing revenues and our sagging economy?

 

I don't think it would help, there would still be a market for stronger substances. I think we need to tackle the market rather than concentrating most of our efforts on the supplier, education, improved life chances for those in deprived areas and readily available detox would all help.

 

(3) Would we have as many problems to solve if we were to except a wider degree of humanity (gays, transsexuals, foreigners), and above all, listen to what they have to say.

 

Bigotry will always be with us, you can't legislate against opinions and no amount of political correctness will change things.

[greywaste]

I think there's been some good beginnings here on trying to address the OP, but these questions are really far too complicated to ever find any answer to. So here's just some comments of mine on the subjects.

 

For instance, here in my 'adopted' country in Scandinavia, Prostitution is legal (they wanted the tax revenue it could generate), it's a supposedly very liberated and unrepressed society and rape is a very common crime

-mainly due to reasons I'm not going to risk going into here. It's considered such a paltry offense that the gang rape of a 16 year old will land you just one year in prison and the maximum sentence for any crime is 16 years in prison unless it's regarded as a particularly special case (there have only been a few in the last 40 years)

 

It's an ugly, cruel and unspeakable thing to do to another person. I just can't see how apart from people being raised in a better way that this kind of thing can be averted. But being more open-minded? I don't see that it will bear any relation whatsoever to why rape happens.

I'm not keen on suggesting it but I think a healthy fear of the potential repercussions will do more good than this.

 

As for drugs, there's no perfect solution to this. Ideally people would just not have the urge to take such risks, but let's face it, to a lot of people life is very dull, or that risk is acceptable. It's been both in my case at various times. In Sweden for example - A nation that a lot of liberal Americans want to emulate on account of the grossly over-exaggerated "wellness" and "happiness" (just check out their suicide rates) of their society, alcohol sales are all strictly state controlled (oh and they get to generate a nice income from your 'disgusting shameful habit' too) and according to many friends I've had from there, people will look down at you if your spotted carrying a bag of bought alcohol. Is it fair? Do we allow people to have unhealthy habits? Last I checked, we aren't immortal...

[HeyYou]

Rape and prostitution are two entirely different subjects, that bear no relation to each other. Rapists will rape, regardless of whether prostitution is legal or not. Fear of the repercussions isn't a deterrent to crime either. If it were, you would think that murder rates would be lower in states that have the death penalty. Our legal system is at least partially responsible for that situation, but, that too, is a topic for another thread.

 

Legalizing recreational drugs would indeed have quite a few positive affects. Releasing those is prison for what would now be non-criminal acts, or, at least, substantially reduced penalty acts..... would decrease prison populations, relieve some of the over-crowding, remove the cost of supporting those released from the state/fed, whomever happens to be paying for it.... It would also start generating revenue, and JOBS, and we wouldn't be spending billions of dollars per year trying to stop something that just isn't going to BE stopped. (think: Prohibition. We see how well that worked out.....) Regulate them like alcohol, treat them the exact same way. (alcohol generates 5 billion dollars per year in tax revenue.... and that was from 2008..... it has been increasing steadily for as long as statistics were kept....) This will also have a moderating affect on crime in Mexico as well..... as a fair number of the drug cartels import pot. If it can be produced locally, for cheaper, and is better quality.... their market will dry right up. Same goes for Cocaine. Granted, we can't produce it locally, but, if it's legalized, and regulated...... There is yet some more revenue. LSD? Sure, why not? It is not addictive, and you simply can not overdose on it. (you may be pretty useless for a day or so if you take a bunch... but, once it wears off, you will be back to yourself again.)

 

If humans were more accepting, yes, we would be better off. But, that isn't going to happen. Humans are full of prejudices, and anyone that doesn't think/act the way the rest of society thinks they should is ostracized, labeled, considered "deficient" in some manner, or mentally unsound. I won't mention just where most of those prejudices come from......... topic-non-grata here. :D

[marharth]

1. Rape would not change, but prostitution should still be legal so it is safer.

 

2. It might have a decrease, but all drugs need to be legal to completely destory the criminal market.

 

3. Too many humans try to fit into groups. If we can't change that bigotry will always exist.

 

The answer to dealing with bad people who will never be able to be rehabilitated is to separate them from society, not punish them.

[HeyYou]

1. Rape would not change, but prostitution should still be legal so it is safer.

 

2. It might have a decrease, but all drugs need to be legal to completely destory the criminal market.

 

3. Too many humans try to fit into groups. If we can't change that bigotry will always exist.

 

The answer to dealing with bad people who will never be able to be rehabilitated is to separate them from society, not punish them.

 

You don't think criminals should be punished for their crimes? Lets try this one on for size then...... I wouldn't mind seeing the "three strikes and yer out" laws taken a step further. Get that third strike, and WE take YOU out. You are done. No longer a problem. And NOT a tax burden either. Why should my taxes pay for three hots and a cot for some killer? Whack his ass dead. End of problem. And no 10, 15, 20, 25 years of appeals either. You get ONE appeal after conviction. If that is upheld, you are DEAD the next day.

 

Yeah, I am pretty cold blooded.

[ub3rman123]

1. Rape would not change, but prostitution should still be legal so it is safer.

 

2. It might have a decrease, but all drugs need to be legal to completely destory the criminal market.

 

3. Too many humans try to fit into groups. If we can't change that bigotry will always exist.

 

The answer to dealing with bad people who will never be able to be rehabilitated is to separate them from society, not punish them.

 

You don't think criminals should be punished for their crimes? Lets try this one on for size then...... I wouldn't mind seeing the "three strikes and yer out" laws taken a step further. Get that third strike, and WE take YOU out. You are done. No longer a problem. And NOT a tax burden either. Why should my taxes pay for three hots and a cot for some killer? Whack his ass dead. End of problem. And no 10, 15, 20, 25 years of appeals either. You get ONE appeal after conviction. If that is upheld, you are DEAD the next day.

 

Yeah, I am pretty cold blooded.

 

The problem with the Three Strikes idea is that it takes all kinds of crime the same way. Someone who commits shoplifting three times gets the same thing as someone who's just set a crate full of puppies on fire, throws his secretary down a flight of stairs, and then plays GTA in real life with his car.