Debt ceiling bill.

[JimboUK]

Yeah, we are headed for a crash, and we are going to take the world down the toilet with us. Only then, will washington maybe wake up, and smell the coffee.

 

It's not just the US, the antics of those in the Eurozone beggar belief. The Euro as a currency is pretty much doomed, it's just a case of when governments wake up to the fact, stop throwing money at it and reinstate their old currencies. I hope that can be done in an orderly fashion rather than the thing just collapsing leading to complete panic.

[Saraane]

This whole debt ceiling thing is just a distraction, it was raised twice under Bush without being a national news story for a week.

 

According to what I've read, during Bush Jr.'s admin, the debt ceiling was raised seven times. I don't remember hearing about any of those times. *lol* I wonder how much of a fuss was raised when Clinton did it (5 times) , or Reagan (18 times), and I think it's been raised a couple of times already since Obama became president.

 

*sigh* True, but back then we also weren't about to lose our AAA credit rating or go over the rate of interest in a year that we make in a year. THAT is what makes it dangerous. We have to stop spending so much money! A household (unless it contains a bunch of idiots) realizes this and cuts the budget. I would be fine with things like Obama care and expensive researches... if we were not about to run out of money...

 

Oh, and the whole print it out of thin air... isn't going to work much longer.

[mellowtraumatic]

This whole debt ceiling thing is just a distraction, it was raised twice under Bush without being a national news story for a week.

 

According to what I've read, during Bush Jr.'s admin, the debt ceiling was raised seven times. I don't remember hearing about any of those times. *lol* I wonder how much of a fuss was raised when Clinton did it (5 times) , or Reagan (18 times), and I think it's been raised a couple of times already since Obama became president.

 

*sigh* True, but back then we also weren't about to lose our AAA credit rating or go over the rate of interest in a year that we make in a year. THAT is what makes it dangerous. We have to stop spending so much money! A household (unless it contains a bunch of idiots) realizes this and cuts the budget. I would be fine with things like Obama care and expensive researches... if we were not about to run out of money...

 

Oh, and the whole print it out of thin air... isn't going to work much longer.

 

*lol* You don't really need to sigh at me. I understand and agree with most everything you said. I understand why the debt ceiling needed to be raised right now, but it's definitely something we need to stop doing at the drop of a hat. We're in such a bad position right now that we need to cut spending significantly and increase revenue. Doing one or the other by itself will help, but we'd be in a lot better shape down the road if we did both.

[marharth]

This whole debt ceiling thing is just a distraction, it was raised twice under Bush without being a national news story for a week.

 

According to what I've read, during Bush Jr.'s admin, the debt ceiling was raised seven times. I don't remember hearing about any of those times. *lol* I wonder how much of a fuss was raised when Clinton did it (5 times) , or Reagan (18 times), and I think it's been raised a couple of times already since Obama became president.

 

*sigh* True, but back then we also weren't about to lose our AAA credit rating or go over the rate of interest in a year that we make in a year. THAT is what makes it dangerous. We have to stop spending so much money! A household (unless it contains a bunch of idiots) realizes this and cuts the budget. I would be fine with things like Obama care and expensive researches... if we were not about to run out of money...

 

Oh, and the whole print it out of thin air... isn't going to work much longer.

Comparing a household to the government is not ideal, but I do agree we need to cut spending. I also think we need a better tax system, but its not a very common opinion to want to change taxes and cut spending.

 

The reason we were about to lose our credit rating is because that would have happened if we didn't raise the debt ceiling. Same thing would have happened if it wasn't raised under bush.

 

We did get a lower credit rating anyways, so the cutting didn't seem to help much.

[evilneko]

S&P (and only S&P) downgraded us because of the huge deal the right wing made about the debt ceiling. I'm sure you've all heard just how many times it's been raised in the past, and that it's not unusual and in fact normal to only raise it at the last minute. It's only natural that it should be raised when needed since Congress authorizes the spending anyway--if they didn't want to spend more, they should've voted down more spending bills.

 

Add to this that the debt ceiling itself could very well be unconstitutional at least as it is currently implemented. This, IMO, is why the lunatic fringe was trying so hard to get a "Balanced Budget Amendment" tacked on. I am supremely glad that no such requirement made it into the final bill. It probably wouldn't have been ratified anyway, but it could've been used to make the debt ceiling constitutional (by repealing a certain section of the 14th), and on top of that is not only nonsensical but harmful to the country.

 

Both parties failed epically in this whole debacle.

 

At least they got the FAA re-authorized... funny they managed that what, the day after I posted about it...

 

Problem there was, someone realized that if the rich, IE employers started losing their money it would trickle alll the way down to the poorest of the poor.

 

I never did like this particular right-wing plank. Probably because it simply isn't true. Taxes for the upper brackets are the lowest they've been in years already. Corporate profits are at an all-time high. Trickle-down economics simply doesn't work. The focus should be on the middle and lower classes. Unemployment checks, welfare, social security, medicare and medicaid all do more to stimulate the economy than tax cuts for the rich. Yeah, entitlements. I just went there.

 

And you know what? That bailout thing? Worked. A Good Thing. Stimulus? Worked too. Brought jobs.

 

Both parties are obviously nuts. Currently at least the Dems are the lesser of the two evils, but can we get a decent third pary in here?

[Saraane]

S&P (and only S&P) downgraded us because of the huge deal the right wing made about the debt ceiling. I'm sure you've all heard just how many times it's been raised in the past, and that it's not unusual and in fact normal to only raise it at the last minute. It's only natural that it should be raised when needed since Congress authorizes the spending anyway--if they didn't want to spend more, they should've voted down more spending bills.

 

Add to this that the debt ceiling itself could very well be unconstitutional at least as it is currently implemented. This, IMO, is why the lunatic fringe was trying so hard to get a "Balanced Budget Amendment" tacked on. I am supremely glad that no such requirement made it into the final bill. It probably wouldn't have been ratified anyway, but it could've been used to make the debt ceiling constitutional (by repealing a certain section of the 14th), and on top of that is not only nonsensical but harmful to the country.

 

Both parties failed epically in this whole debacle.

 

At least they got the FAA re-authorized... funny they managed that what, the day after I posted about it...

 

Problem there was, someone realized that if the rich, IE employers started losing their money it would trickle alll the way down to the poorest of the poor.

 

I never did like this particular right-wing plank. Probably because it simply isn't true. Taxes for the upper brackets are the lowest they've been in years already. Corporate profits are at an all-time high. Trickle-down economics simply doesn't work. The focus should be on the middle and lower classes. Unemployment checks, welfare, social security, medicare and medicaid all do more to stimulate the economy than tax cuts for the rich. Yeah, entitlements. I just went there.

 

And you know what? That bailout thing? Worked. A Good Thing. Stimulus? Worked too. Brought jobs.

 

Both parties are obviously nuts. Currently at least the Dems are the lesser of the two evils, but can we get a decent third pary in here?

 

I hate to be a pessimist, but I firmly believe that most, (not all, some do have souls) rich people would just A: raise prices, B: fire people so they can still make the amount of money they are making now. I've seen it happen. It happened to me, and to my father. Just look around. Why do you think so many people don't have jobs right now if profits are at an all time high?

 

The fact is, people are afraid. I admit, Glen Beck didn't help but the White House and congress has done it's share of fear mongering also. When people are afraid, they want to just sit on what they have or get more. It's human nature. The crazy/scary weather hasn't helped, we are at war with WAY too many places right now...

 

I asked some people that were paying attention during the cold war if that time or this time was worse? 10 out of 10 said this time was way worse.

 

I wish we could get someone into office that didn't owe their soul to 10 or more interest groups. Then something constructive might get done. I'm not going to argue with you about the stimulus and the bail outs. We just see things differently. I'm thinking that had these two things worked, we wouldn't be in the hole we are in now. Of course, if Freddy and Fannie hadn't been allowed to do as they pleased, we would not have fallen so far, so fast. I think they should have been allowed to fail and replaced with people who had scruples.

 

But that's just me.

 

I'll tell you where to find all the money you ever needed - without raising taxes a cent. Welfare and Medicade and all those government relief programs. I'm not talking about the people who can't work and truly need it, I'm talking about that Jack @ss who broke his leg 20 years ago and STILL is on welfare, I'm talking about fully able bodied mothers who just have babies... and get paid for them (the more you put out, the more paid out!!!)

 

There also needs to be a rule put into unemployment that allows you to work temp for a little while and when that work runs out, go back to unemployment. And if that person doesn't work for six months, at all, ever, not once. They are cut off. That might solve the dead-beat on unemployment problem.

 

And S&P downgraded us because the interest of our loans is now equal to the gross national product. In our current state, that is unsustainable! And I don't blame them!

[marharth]

S&P (and only S&P) downgraded us because of the huge deal the right wing made about the debt ceiling. I'm sure you've all heard just how many times it's been raised in the past, and that it's not unusual and in fact normal to only raise it at the last minute. It's only natural that it should be raised when needed since Congress authorizes the spending anyway--if they didn't want to spend more, they should've voted down more spending bills.

 

Add to this that the debt ceiling itself could very well be unconstitutional at least as it is currently implemented. This, IMO, is why the lunatic fringe was trying so hard to get a "Balanced Budget Amendment" tacked on. I am supremely glad that no such requirement made it into the final bill. It probably wouldn't have been ratified anyway, but it could've been used to make the debt ceiling constitutional (by repealing a certain section of the 14th), and on top of that is not only nonsensical but harmful to the country.

 

Both parties failed epically in this whole debacle.

 

At least they got the FAA re-authorized... funny they managed that what, the day after I posted about it...

 

Problem there was, someone realized that if the rich, IE employers started losing their money it would trickle alll the way down to the poorest of the poor.

 

I never did like this particular right-wing plank. Probably because it simply isn't true. Taxes for the upper brackets are the lowest they've been in years already. Corporate profits are at an all-time high. Trickle-down economics simply doesn't work. The focus should be on the middle and lower classes. Unemployment checks, welfare, social security, medicare and medicaid all do more to stimulate the economy than tax cuts for the rich. Yeah, entitlements. I just went there.

 

And you know what? That bailout thing? Worked. A Good Thing. Stimulus? Worked too. Brought jobs.

 

Both parties are obviously nuts. Currently at least the Dems are the lesser of the two evils, but can we get a decent third pary in here?

 

I hate to be a pessimist, but I firmly believe that most, (not all, some do have souls) rich people would just A: raise prices, B: fire people so they can still make the amount of money they are making now. I've seen it happen. It happened to me, and to my father. Just look around. Why do you think so many people don't have jobs right now if profits are at an all time high?

 

The fact is, people are afraid. I admit, Glen Beck didn't help but the White House and congress has done it's share of fear mongering also. When people are afraid, they want to just sit on what they have or get more. It's human nature. The crazy/scary weather hasn't helped, we are at war with WAY too many places right now...

 

I asked some people that were paying attention during the cold war if that time or this time was worse? 10 out of 10 said this time was way worse.

 

I wish we could get someone into office that didn't owe their soul to 10 or more interest groups. Then something constructive might get done. I'm not going to argue with you about the stimulus and the bail outs. We just see things differently. I'm thinking that had these two things worked, we wouldn't be in the hole we are in now. Of course, if Freddy and Fannie hadn't been allowed to do as they pleased, we would not have fallen so far, so fast. I think they should have been allowed to fail and replaced with people who had scruples.

 

But that's just me.

 

I'll tell you where to find all the money you ever needed - without raising taxes a cent. Welfare and Medicade and all those government relief programs. I'm not talking about the people who can't work and truly need it, I'm talking about that Jack @ss who broke his leg 20 years ago and STILL is on welfare, I'm talking about fully able bodied mothers who just have babies... and get paid for them (the more you put out, the more paid out!!!)

 

There also needs to be a rule put into unemployment that allows you to work temp for a little while and when that work runs out, go back to unemployment. And if that person doesn't work for six months, at all, ever, not once. They are cut off. That might solve the dead-beat on unemployment problem.

 

And S&P downgraded us because the interest of our loans is now equal to the gross national product. In our current state, that is unsustainable! And I don't blame them!

I can assure you S&P wouldn't of downgraded us if the debt ceiling thing wasn't a national news story.

 

As for welfare and medicare, it needs to be reformed yes. Just installing a type of universal healthcare and removing medicare/medicate all together would greatly help with the budget.

 

The unemployment system is only a temporary check. I think it is only something like two weeks to find a job. A good way to fix the unemployment would be work programs.

 

As for the rich, they already constantly fire people as raise prices. Hell we gave them tax cuts and they want to start out sourcing more jobs. I don't think taxing them would hurt anyone at all.

[Saraane]

Two weeks!? :wallbash: :teehee: :facepalm: :rolleyes: :woot: :wallbash: To find a job?

 

What world do you live in? The average around here is 6 months to a year. Some of us have been out of work for literally, years! And I know the my friends (and I) are looking! I do temp work and work odd jobs for my (rich lol) friends to get by!

 

Forget the "world economy" I say we levy horrible tariffs on foreign goods coming in to the country. It would keep business here from leaving and penalize the ones that already left!

[JimboUK]

On the night before the downgrade there was a guy from S&P taking part in a discussion on France24, he was saying the problem with the US isn't just the size of debt. He pointed out the inability of the political class to come together and deal with the debt, he said neither side were willing to take the hugely unpopular measures needed. The debt ceiling fiasco was mentioned, he said the cuts agreed there were nowhere near what was expected or needed. This is a sharp contrast to the UK where the AAA rating is safe (as long as our trading partners don't implode) and where we can borrow at exactly the same rate as Germany despite having huge debts, the difference here is we have a government willing to do the unpopular and a population largely behind the cuts.

 

Two weeks!? :wallbash: :teehee: :facepalm: :rolleyes: :woot: :wallbash: To find a job?

 

What world do you live in? The average around here is 6 months to a year. Some of us have been out of work for literally, years! And I know the my friends (and I) are looking! I do temp work and work odd jobs for my (rich lol) friends to get by!

 

Forget the "world economy" I say we levy horrible tariffs on foreign goods coming in to the country. It would keep business here from leaving and penalize the ones that already left!

 

The problem there is you'll have tariffs slapped on your exports by other countries.

[HeyYou]

On the night before the downgrade there was a guy from S&P taking part in a discussion on France24, he was saying the problem with the US isn't just the size of debt. He pointed out the inability of the political class to come together and deal with the debt, he said neither side were willing to take the hugely unpopular measures needed. The debt ceiling fiasco was mentioned, he said the cuts agreed there were nowhere near what was expected or needed. This is a sharp contrast to the UK where the AAA rating is safe (as long as our trading partners don't implode) and where we can borrow at exactly the same rate as Germany despite having huge debts, the difference here is we have a government willing to do the unpopular and a population largely behind the cuts.

 

Two weeks!? :wallbash: :teehee: :facepalm: :rolleyes: :woot: :wallbash: To find a job?

 

What world do you live in? The average around here is 6 months to a year. Some of us have been out of work for literally, years! And I know the my friends (and I) are looking! I do temp work and work odd jobs for my (rich lol) friends to get by!

 

Forget the "world economy" I say we levy horrible tariffs on foreign goods coming in to the country. It would keep business here from leaving and penalize the ones that already left!

 

The problem there is you'll have tariffs slapped on your exports by other countries.

 

I don't see that as a problem really. Not like we export a lot to china...... (aside from jobs.) same with India..... Japan has import tariffs on american products, so that their own can remain competitive at home. So, getting the income from IMPORT tariffs would MORE than offset any duties we would have to pay on our exports. And wow, maybe we could get some of our manufacturing jobs back.