20,000 shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles say bye bye

[kvnchrist]

Well frankly Stingers have been on the market for a long time, now there's more stock, but they've been in the shop window for a long time. Hell a bunch of them got nicked from an Australian army base a few years ago and never got recovered so it's hardly the dawn of a new dark age.

 

 

I doubt very much in the count there was 20,000.

 

This was war, we were in. These are supposed to be these great military minds that are going to save us from evil. Heck, a common thief concerns himself with the defenses of the home, he's breaking into more that these idiots.

[HeyYou]

Well, isn't that fun? And that is only a minor sample of weapons soon to be available on the open market. These were storage facilities, I seriously doubt that AA missiles were the only thing there..... someone is going to make a mint. (actually, probably several someones.....)

 

As time passes, and these weapons circulate further from the point of origin, things will get even more interesting. Sit a mile or so from an airport...... and no anti-missile defense system is going to react in time to prevent damage to the aircraft being targeted. They will still get close enough to do serious damage. (the idea of the proximity fuse, is to detonate the warhead, and send a cloud of shrapnel thru an engine..... they tend to stop running very shortly thereafter, generally followed by catastrophic disassembly... not a good scene, ESPECIALLY on take off....) Sure, civilian aircraft regularly lose an engine on takeoff..... but, they don't have the blown apart...... with significant collateral damage as well. Nope, the various airlines are probably shaking in their boots at this point. It is only a matter of time before terrorists get their hands on these, and then make use of them.

[Aurielius]

FYI, there are methods of defeating a Stinger which we have in our possession but it is to my knowledge is only on military aircraft, so civilian craft would still be vulnerable if they did not install them fleet wide and provide the required training to implement their effective use. Even so, the additional evasive maneuvers that are concurrent with defeating a Stinger are well beyond the capacity of most civilian aircraft, a passenger aircraft is like driving a cement truck compared the the race car performance of a military jet or helicopter. Dodging any form of SAM is not a job for amateurs.

[HeyYou]

FYI, there are methods of defeating a Stinger which we have in our possession but it is to my knowledge is only on military aircraft, so civilian craft would still be vulnerable if they did not install them fleet wide and provide the required training to implement their effective use. Even so, the additional evasive maneuvers that are concurrent with defeating a Stinger are well beyond the capacity of most civilian aircraft, a passenger aircraft is like driving a cement truck compared the the race car performance of a military jet or helicopter. Dodging any form of SAM is not a job for amateurs.

 

Ah, but most of those systems, and maneuvers, rely on altitude, speed, and violent (high g) maneuvers.... none of which would be effective for a passenger aircraft at low altitude, relatively low speed, and almost as maneuverable as a cement truck....... I am thinkin' "one shot, one kill" here. Civilian aircraft wouldn't stand a chance.

[Aurielius]

FYI, there are methods of defeating a Stinger which we have in our possession but it is to my knowledge is only on military aircraft, so civilian craft would still be vulnerable if they did not install them fleet wide and provide the required training to implement their effective use. Even so, the additional evasive maneuvers that are concurrent with defeating a Stinger are well beyond the capacity of most civilian aircraft, a passenger aircraft is like driving a cement truck compared the the race car performance of a military jet or helicopter. Dodging any form of SAM is not a job for amateurs.

 

Ah, but most of those systems, and maneuvers, rely on altitude, speed, and violent (high g) maneuvers.... none of which would be effective for a passenger aircraft at low altitude, relatively low speed, and almost as maneuverable as a cement truck....... I am thinkin' "one shot, one kill" here. Civilian aircraft wouldn't stand a chance.

Thought that I sort of implied that.. :whistling: Most civilian aircraft that tried the required maneuvers would more then likely shear off it's wings or drop like a stone when the engines cut out or sheared from their mounts.....so the best bet for the crew and passengers is to stick their head between their legs and kiss their ass goodbye. :sick:

[HeyYou]

FYI, there are methods of defeating a Stinger which we have in our possession but it is to my knowledge is only on military aircraft, so civilian craft would still be vulnerable if they did not install them fleet wide and provide the required training to implement their effective use. Even so, the additional evasive maneuvers that are concurrent with defeating a Stinger are well beyond the capacity of most civilian aircraft, a passenger aircraft is like driving a cement truck compared the the race car performance of a military jet or helicopter. Dodging any form of SAM is not a job for amateurs.

 

Ah, but most of those systems, and maneuvers, rely on altitude, speed, and violent (high g) maneuvers.... none of which would be effective for a passenger aircraft at low altitude, relatively low speed, and almost as maneuverable as a cement truck....... I am thinkin' "one shot, one kill" here. Civilian aircraft wouldn't stand a chance.

Thought that I sort of implied that.. :whistling: Most civilian aircraft that tried the required maneuvers would more then likely shear off it's wings or drop like a stone when the engines cut out or sheared from their mounts.....so the best bet for the crew and passengers is to stick their head between their legs and kiss their ass goodbye. :sick:

 

Well..... it might be misconstrued by some as to imply that it would be possible to equip/train civilian aircraft/pilots with the requisite equipment/skills to avoid the missiles. And that is certainly not the case. I don't know of any civilian airline that would want to go to the expense of installing that in all of their aircraft... that would be hideously expensive. (and that assumes that the military would even allow the technology into the civilian market.... which I think would be a no-go as well.) For the commercial pilots, if they even see it coming.... their best bet is going to be let it hit, (like they get a choice...) and hope for the best. Losing an engine on takeoff can be quite dire..... and that's just from something as innocuous as a bird strike...... having the engine physically blown apart is another matter entirely. If it JUST takes out an engine, that would be recoverable, for the most part..... start getting into structural/control system damage, and it's a whole new ball of wax. (or something of similar consistency, but smells worse....)

[crimsonblade1]

Here is a link to that defense system I was talking about Israel using:

 

http://thedefencejournal.blogspot.com/2011/07/c-music-to-protect-israeli-airlines.html

 

This is practically star wars stuff. Uses a laser to intercept a missile and its supposedly fully automated. Airforce one likely has something similar to this except its probably way more powerful.

Edited September 30, 2011 by crimsonblade1

[Ghogiel]

Here is a link to that defense system I was talking about Israel using:

 

http://thedefencejournal.blogspot.com/2011/07/c-music-to-protect-israeli-airlines.html

 

This is practically star wars stuff. Uses a laser to intercept a missile and its supposedly fully automated. Airforce one likely has something similar to this except its probably way more powerful.

Apparently they have actually used some type of counter measures in real world incident just recently. A passenger Boeing 757 some how evaded 2 Strela missiles when taking off from an airport in Mombasa.

[McclaudEagle]

The decision to think about equipping airliners with anti-missile defenses came about during the earlier stages of the Iraq War. A DHL Airbus A300 was nearly shot down by insurgents shortly after it had taken off from Baghdad. The aircraft took a hit from a surface-to-air missile that struck the left wing. Apparently, the pilot had to make a full 37km circle of the airport before it was able to land.

 

They were then told the plane had actually landed in a potential minefield on the edge of the runway, although I don't know if this holds true. It was decided that planes could be fitted with a laser operated anti-missile system. The laser would be aimed at the missile's warhead, and would then scramble either the missile's target tracking, alter the trajectory of the missile or simply knock it out dead in the sky.