This is what happens when you support console modding.

[Hallgarth]

I'd say it's been a pissing contest and full of bickering from the very first post.

Bethesda is trying something new and it will succeed or fail based on its merits. I don't think there's anything outright malicious behind it, they just wanted to let the console players have a chance at using mods, because it is part of the BGS experience that they've been missing out on. Going through Bethesda is the only real way of doing that on console.

 

Just wait and see how it pans out, instead of getting angry about it before it's even gotten off the ground. Besides, people have been making demands of modders here on PC for years, so I don't see what's different.

[TeamBacon]

I'd say it's been a pissing contest and full of bickering from the very first post.

 

 

Internet logic 101 -

 

It is called an intelligent conversation as long as everyone is agreeing with you. It is only when other people form their own opinions and share them that you start calling it a pissing contest.

 

It is the internet equivalent of enjoying a game while you are winning, and then as soon as you start losing flipping the board and saying, 'This game is dumb! I'm not playing this stupid thing!'

[DaemonGrin]

The commonality I've garnered from most of these posts is the word entitlement. I get the sneaking suspicion that most of these posters are the ones that feel entitled. I'm being serious. I preferred consoles up until 6 years ago when I first discovered modding. OMG he didn't know about modding until 2010???? Nah I knew about it just didn't have any interest in it until I got a copy of oblivion and found the Nexus, so yeah Nexus I blame you for my addiction now! Anyway this got me to 3 years later build my own gaming PC strictly so I could mod the hell out of games and have as little performance hit as possible. Now i wouldn't have spent the kind of money I did if any of my consoles had mod support. Now my point if I actually have one is I am getting the feeling that a lot of this animosity is that the people that have spent large sums of money on a gaming pc felt entitled to having access to stuff the console user could only dream about but now that barrier is being broken down. That elitist desire to be superior is projecting that butthurt. Don't believe me watch GTKYMA they tear into mod users, entitlement has been around before console modding was suckling on Todd Howards teet.

 

Meh,

Geoff

[dazzerfong]

I'd rather be called a tinfoil hat wearer than trust capitalism.

 

In any case, this thread has begun devolving into the usual pissing contest/bickering I have come to expect from any interaction over the internet. I said my piece. I can only hope I gave someone something to think about.

Alright, Mr. Tinfoil Hat Wearer. If you expected the interaction to turn into a 'pissing contest', why bother posting? If you're looking for an echo chamber, well, it won't exist here, thankfully.

 

Oh, and how about your info regarding Skyrim 2? Got any sources?

[minngarm]

The current way we enjoy modding on the Nexus is in no need of refinement or altering. Therefore anything bethesda.net offers can only mean trouble. It can only be about taking control. And then it will only lead to paid mods rising it's ugly head again.

 

All the ignorance is summed up in a little paragraph. Congratz on being part of the problem.

[UncleRoe]

Console peasants? I never understood the hate for people who don't play on PC. why insult them? i myself play PC and Console. This war between PC and console evolved long after i left my childhood but i feel shamed for anyone who is an adult and participates in this rubbish.

 

As far as demanding mods goes. Yeah that's messed up but a majority of the people demanding are children who do not understand how much work goes into modding. It's like a kid slamming his arm on the table screaming for food. You know what i do when i hear kids screaming at me for stuff? i ignore them..until they figure out how to ask me respectfully.

[SoftisNeleris]

I've been reading my way through a few things like this, and as someone who has experience with both the console and the PC, I feel I can say that generally [not all the time] vicious console users.

 

Much of this argument breaks down to the biggest difference between Consoles and PCs: Convenience vs Customization.

A console player, more often than not, gets a console because it's easy and straight forward. Just buy a console, plug it in, get some game discs, pop 'em in, and bam you have the same game as everyone else. When a game gets an update, just push a button and it will download, bam done. Want to delete some old game data to make way for new ones? Go to your storage, browse, push a button and bam space cleared. It requires little to no technical knowledge to figure out. Consoles practically built for consumers to just pick up and feel just as awesome as a PC gamer but without all of the technical hassles. Consoles make them feel entitled to having everything offered in a game work perfectly, bug free, and with maximum convenience.

A PC is a much more nuanced machine than an Xbox and the required technical knowledge varies depending on how far you want to customize your PC gaming experience, from straightforward enough to holy **** this is complicated help me. It requires a great deal of patience, and time to sit down and browse information and files to get the desired result. Modding is an even more complicated business. For example, it took me hours to find out what to do just to edit the number of med-kit uses my soldiers get in XCOM 2. Mods are more than often than not, incredibly complicated to get running and take a lot of time, let alone create a near-perfectly stable mod in the first place.

 

Now, back to the consoles. Console players are being offered free mods for once, and they want it to be just as simple and fast as buying a game or downloading DLC. However, given how PCs and modding in general works, this is not possible. A PC mod can take days or weeks to script and even longer to test, and even then there are no guarantees to it's stability. Another problem is some of the most jaw-dropping mods require third party software [which consoles are flat-out denied] just to work. PC mods have, in my experience, rarely been convenient. But console users, who as I mentioned before might not have much [if any] technical knowledge, are expecting the same convenience they've been getting through their console experience and when they don't get it, they get upset and whine or complain without knowing anything that goes into modding. And of course, mod authors are the targets of it all. And believe me when I say the vocal part of the console community is the toxic part... Meanwhile, modders who become targets of console hate are spammed with the manner of irradiated goo that is unusual in the PC community but regular in the console community.

I have no idea how to solve this. I could say "Scrap console mods" but that ruins it for console players who are patient and understanding. More/better active forum moderators might help but moderators aren't can't do it all alone. Educating console users seems like a good idea, except the console users posting so much hate won't read it or give a flying ****.

I am in no way trying to stereotype either side of this argument. Both sides have good people and bad people. But based on the information I've gathered, *generally* it's the console users at fault here. And because of the nature of the problem, I can see no good solution to this.

 

tl;dr people suck

Edited May 31, 2016 by SoftisNeleris

[dazzerfong]

I've been reading my way through a few things like this, and as someone who has experience with both the console and the PC, I feel I can say that generally [not all the time] vicious console users.

 

Much of this argument breaks down to the biggest difference between Consoles and PCs: Convenience vs Customization.

A console player, more often than not, gets a console because it's easy and straight forward. Just buy a console, plug it in, get some game discs, pop 'em in, and bam you have the same game as everyone else. When a game gets an update, just push a button and it will download, bam done. Want to delete some old game data to make way for new ones? Go to your storage, browse, push a button and bam space cleared. It requires little to no technical knowledge to figure out. Consoles practically built for consumers to just pick up and feel just as awesome as a PC gamer but without all of the technical hassles. Consoles make them feel entitled to having everything offered in a game work perfectly, bug free, and with maximum convenience.

A PC is a much more nuanced machine than an Xbox and the required technical knowledge varies depending on how far you want to customize your PC gaming experience, from straightforward enough to holy **** this is complicated help me. It requires a great deal of patience, and time to sit down and browse information and files to get the desired result. Modding is an even more complicated business. For example, it took me hours to find out what to do just to edit the number of med-kit uses my soldiers get in XCOM 2. Mods are more than often than not, incredibly complicated to get running and take a lot of time, let alone create a near-perfectly stable mod in the first place.

 

Now, back to the consoles. Console players are being offered free mods for once, and they want it to be just as simple and fast as buying a game or downloading DLC. However, given how PCs and modding in general works, this is not possible. A PC mod can take days or weeks to script and even longer to test, and even then there are no guarantees to it's stability. Another problem is some of the most jaw-dropping mods require third party software [which consoles are flat-out denied] just to work. PC mods have, in my experience, rarely been convenient. But console users, who as I mentioned before might not have much [if any] technical knowledge, are expecting the same convenience they've been getting through their console experience and when they don't get it, they get upset and whine or complain without knowing anything that goes into modding. And of course, mod authors are the targets of it all. And believe me when I say the vocal part of the console community is the toxic part... Meanwhile, modders who become targets of console hate are spammed with the manner of irradiated goo that is unusual in the PC community but regular in the console community.

I have no idea how to solve this. I could say "Scrap console mods" but that ruins it for console players who are patient and understanding. More/better active forum moderators might help but moderators aren't can't do it all alone. Educating console users seems like a good idea, except the console users posting so much hate won't read it or give a flying ****.

I am in no way trying to stereotype either side of this argument. Both sides have good people and bad people. But based on the information I've gathered, *generally* it's the console users at fault here. And because of the nature of the problem, I can see no good solution to this.

 

tl;dr people suck

By writing all that, you just stereotyped everyone. If you're willing to believe PC mod users are all patient and understanding, you're in for a very rude shock by some fellows here. If you ask the average PC mod user if they're willing to jump through hoops for a mod, most will say 'no'. Most of what you wrote is more dilineating between mod creators and mod users rather than console users, i.e. most mod users don't have to go through days or weeks to script and test: they just pop it and run off with it.

 

A lot of the argument the OP made was maliciously misleading: he only focused on the 'good' of PC modding and the 'bad' of console modding, while ignoring everything else in the middle and other side. Honestly, it's more convenient if you split the community by differentiating between 'mod users' and 'modders'. That actually has some dilineation, because modders tend to sympathise more. But, as usual, this generalisation falls apart very quickly, especially with some of the more arrogant ones.

[JuJooGuppy]

 

 

I *DO* get the frustration with the vocal portion of the console crowd, because WOW are there some stupid post. They have no clue how long it takes to do even "simple" task, and that can be frustrating. But certainly won't stop me from sharing when it takes no real effort on my part..

 

 

Do you seriously think this is new? We have had the same issue going back as long as I have been modding?

 

 

 

As soon as New Vegas was released people were sending me email wondering why I didn't just port my mod over to New Vegas now, not understanding that the whole thing would have to be built from scratch again and I was building a stand alone game at the time and couldn't spare all that time.

 

Ever since Fallout 4 was released, people have been all over this website wondering why modders don't bring everything over from Skyrim and New Vegas...

 

They don't just want modders to do massive amounts of work for them, but they are asking things that are highly illegal, like bringing assets from vanilla New Vegas into Fallout 4.

 

People of the PC master race who think that we can click two buttons and boom! Now Skyrim is in the Fallout 4 engine.

 

 

Don't act like console users are the only ignorant ones.

 

 

 

When did I ever say this was new? I didn't even say it was limited to the console crowd. The PC crowd is just as bad, if not worse in their own way.

 

I mentioned the vocal console users directly simply because of the thread being about them. I SHOULD have mentioned the fact that the PC crowd is equally as bad, but I certainly did not say they were some how better. But that's on me for not specifically stating that they were bad too, I guess.

Edited May 31, 2016 by JuJooGuppy

[TeamBacon]

 

 

When did I ever say this was new? I didn't even say it was limited to the console crowd. The PC crowd is just as bad, if not worse in their own way.

 

I mentioned the vocal console users directly simply because of the thread being about them. I SHOULD have mentioned the fact that the PC crowd is equally as bad, but I certainly did not say they were some how better. But that's on me for not specifically stating that they were bad too, I guess.

 

 

In the particular context of a PC bigot going off on a rant about how bad console users are, and you responding by saying 'I do get frustrated with the console crowd' for such and such reason, it isn't exactly logical to point that out if in fact you meant 'I do get frustrated with everyone who does that'

 

 

 

Look at it this way, let's say someone is a bigot and hates everyone with green eyes. He gives a big long speech about how everyone with green eyes is a bad person.

 

Now I happen to hate it when people with big trucks park over the line and I can't park in my normal parking space.

 

If I were to respond to his rant by saying, 'I hate it when people with green eyes park their big trucks over the line next to my parking space!' Then I am promoting the hate, even though in reality I just want to park my car and don't even know what color eyes the driver of that truck has...

 

 

 

Context.

 

I *DO* get the frustration with the vocal portion of the console crowd, because WOW are there some stupid post. They have no clue how long it takes to do even "simple" task...

Edited May 31, 2016 by TeamBacon