Mirocu Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 The EU should never have been. Travel and business worked without it with the plusside that countries couldn´t be overrun by economy migrants posing as refugees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Economic migrants, created by decades of indulgence and exploitation by Western (and other) powers/dreams. What's more is how we seem to repeatedly miss the fact that if we continue to blame the 'poor and disadvantaged' (i.e. eachother), it will become a self fulfilling prophecy in which we will all end up being targeted by governments (and other corporations) and become 'economic migrants' within our own countries (or even homes, with IoT etc...). No freedom of movement? Be careful what you wish for. I guess people still live in bubbles, and that is why they will keep bursting. One has to wonder if there is any room for truth in 'democracy' anymore. Maybe it's just too dangerous - or 'too big to fail' I think is the phrase... While there can appear 'simplistic' solutions, geopolitical economics and sociology is very broad and often confusing - mind-bending even. However, I am not convinced a complete mark to market of ideas is the best, or even a desirable, option yet. Not anymore than it has already been, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderMuffin Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) The EU should never have been. Travel and business worked without it with the plusside that countries couldn´t be overrun by economy migrants posing as refugees. Except the EU does a lot of good. They regulate trade to help impoverished countries, they have countries under it follow human and civil rights acts, they help countries set up trade agreements not only in Europe but around the world, they give countries money to develop poor, disaster stricken areas and/or areas the country's government can't fully support financially. England itself had several of it's beaches and farmlands renovated by the EU. This is a good image about the benefits the UK alone got from the EU. http://i.imgur.com/j8AFObe.gifv The important part of peace is actually something Europe has tried many times in it's history, even before World War 1 there were councils set up to try and stop the rampant wars that Europe saw during the middle ages and the Renaissance age. Edited July 12, 2016 by CiderMuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signette Posted July 14, 2016 Author Share Posted July 14, 2016 Nevertheless you can hear ALOT of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderMuffin Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) Nevertheless you can hear a lot of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math... Yea through propaganda, lies and bigotry. UK managed to lose a large portion of their money, their GDP still hasn't recovered fully, the leaders who orchestrated leave are stepping down left and right, Northern Ireland and Scotland are pissed off due to a majority being in remain which could lead to both of them leaving the UK, poor areas of the UK will no longer get the EU benefits they relied on, city councils are finding out they've been lied to by Leave who said "hey we'll make sure you get the same amount of relief money the EU gave you" but whoops nope not happening, the NHS won't see an increase and due to the open entry and easy foreign employment EU citizens saw they will no longer be getting doctors and nurses to support their understaffed hospitals which is becoming a big problem and more and more hate crimes and speech are being reported in England. UK certainly did the math, except they got a big fat F on the test. Edited July 14, 2016 by CiderMuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Rather than failing necessarily, I like to think of it more like this... It's great for sum (*wink wink*), but not so much when things stop adding up and the s*** starts hitting the fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Nevertheless you can hear a lot of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math...Yea through propaganda, lies and bigotry. UK managed to lose a large portion of their money, their GDP still hasn't recovered fully, the leaders who orchestrated leave are stepping down left and right, Northern Ireland and Scotland are pissed off due to a majority being in remain which could lead to both of them leaving the UK, poor areas of the UK will no longer get the EU benefits they relied on, city councils are finding out they've been lied to by Leave who said "hey we'll make sure you get the same amount of relief money the EU gave you" but whoops nope not happening, the NHS won't see an increase and due to the open entry and easy foreign employment EU citizens saw they will no longer be getting doctors and nurses to support their understaffed hospitals which is becoming a big problem and more and more hate crimes and speech are being reported in England. UK certainly did the math, except they got a big fat F on the test. Freedom is worth more than money, a concept the Brits still believe in.I fully understand why they prefer elected leaders in London rather than appointed bureaucrats in Brussels.Given Europe's track record historically, I'll give the Brits an A+ in Poly Sci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderMuffin Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Nevertheless you can hear a lot of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math... Yea through propaganda, lies and bigotry. UK managed to lose a large portion of their money, their GDP still hasn't recovered fully, the leaders who orchestrated leave are stepping down left and right, Northern Ireland and Scotland are pissed off due to a majority being in remain which could lead to both of them leaving the UK, poor areas of the UK will no longer get the EU benefits they relied on, city councils are finding out they've been lied to by Leave who said "hey we'll make sure you get the same amount of relief money the EU gave you" but whoops nope not happening, the NHS won't see an increase and due to the open entry and easy foreign employment EU citizens saw they will no longer be getting doctors and nurses to support their understaffed hospitals which is becoming a big problem and more and more hate crimes and speech are being reported in England. UK certainly did the math, except they got a big fat F on the test. Freedom is worth more than money, a concept the Brits still believe in. I fully understand why they prefer elected leaders in London rather than appointed bureaucrats in Brussels. Given European history I'll give the Brits an A+ in Poly Sci. The UK was already free lol the EU isn't some tyrant dictatorship it's an alliance of countries that work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Nevertheless you can hear a lot of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math...Yea through propaganda, lies and bigotry. UK managed to lose a large portion of their money, their GDP still hasn't recovered fully, the leaders who orchestrated leave are stepping down left and right, Northern Ireland and Scotland are pissed off due to a majority being in remain which could lead to both of them leaving the UK, poor areas of the UK will no longer get the EU benefits they relied on, city councils are finding out they've been lied to by Leave who said "hey we'll make sure you get the same amount of relief money the EU gave you" but whoops nope not happening, the NHS won't see an increase and due to the open entry and easy foreign employment EU citizens saw they will no longer be getting doctors and nurses to support their understaffed hospitals which is becoming a big problem and more and more hate crimes and speech are being reported in England. UK certainly did the math, except they got a big fat F on the test. Freedom is worth more than money, a concept the Brits still believe in.I fully understand why they prefer elected leaders in London rather than appointed bureaucrats in Brussels.Given European history I'll give the Brits an A+ in Poly Sci. From what I gathered, one of the main reasons for leaving was to actually curb people's freedoms, or at least to... *cough*... 'redirect' them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Nevertheless you can hear a lot of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math...Yea through propaganda, lies and bigotry. UK managed to lose a large portion of their money, their GDP still hasn't recovered fully, the leaders who orchestrated leave are stepping down left and right, Northern Ireland and Scotland are pissed off due to a majority being in remain which could lead to both of them leaving the UK, poor areas of the UK will no longer get the EU benefits they relied on, city councils are finding out they've been lied to by Leave who said "hey we'll make sure you get the same amount of relief money the EU gave you" but whoops nope not happening, the NHS won't see an increase and due to the open entry and easy foreign employment EU citizens saw they will no longer be getting doctors and nurses to support their understaffed hospitals which is becoming a big problem and more and more hate crimes and speech are being reported in England. UK certainly did the math, except they got a big fat F on the test. Freedom is worth more than money, a concept the Brits still believe in.I fully understand why they prefer elected leaders in London rather than appointed bureaucrats in Brussels.Given European history I'll give the Brits an A+ in Poly Sci. From what I gathered, one of the main reasons for leaving was to actually curb people's freedoms, or at least to... *cough*... 'redirect' them. What I see is a lot of EU sour grapes, much like the crazy ex that won't comprehend its over even after being told so."People who trade freedom for security usually end up with neither"- Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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