Future of EU...

[Harbringe]

 

 

 

We didn't vote for anyone, we voted to leave the EU, we don't get to vote anyone in or out until 2020.

 

 

UKIP isn't going anywhere but I can't see it winning any time soon and he's getting on now, I can see him as an MP but nothing more, I don't think the establishment is ever going to give him the credit he deserves. I think we're in for some interesting times, if Labour don't get rid of Corbyn or do but replace him with another clown then we're going to start seeing UKIP MPs coming from Labours old heartlands, we're starting to see what happened to Labour in Scotland being repeated in working class areas of England.

 

sunshrinebrick - so, you know when people say voting for right wing etc? remember when the guardian would call cameron things?

jim_uk - this is for you :smile:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-downfall-european-tragedy

they're playing up a man who stuck his dick in a dead pig's head and wanted an undemocratic 1984 style continental aristocracy government

 

 

You know the real tragedy for him? he only agreed to the referendum to see off UKIP in the last election, as it turned out UKIP harmed Labour and not the Tories so he need not have done it. I'll be glad to see the back of him, he's the worst prime minister since the last one, he stands for nothing, he believes what the last person he spoke to believes, he's an empty vessel, for him politics is just a game, this time he played and lost. I've noticed Osborne has gone into hiding, he obviously doesn't what to answer questions about the punishment budget he threatened voters with.

 

 

So true , Cameron played off the various sides in the last election , made a bunch of promises of which none bore out and its others who are being opportunistic. Your right the man has no conviction , he does just what serves him in the moment and like a greek tradegy it has come back to bite him in the arse.

[JimboUK]

 

 

UKIP isn't going anywhere but I can't see it winning any time soon and he's getting on now, I can see him as an MP but nothing more, I don't think the establishment is ever going to give him the credit he deserves. I think we're in for some interesting times, if Labour don't get rid of Corbyn or do but replace him with another clown then we're going to start seeing UKIP MPs coming from Labours old heartlands, we're starting to see what happened to Labour in Scotland being repeated in working class areas of England.

 

 

 

UKIP is done , they have served their purpose , they have accomplished the task they had set out to do and will be dissolved once Great Britain leaves the EU in 2 years time , but that doesn't mean the people involved are not going to have a future in British politics . It doesn't make sense to ignore the people who have been looking at the EU and pointing out its failings and when the time comes to put to the test what they have been saying , they wont be involved . Nonsense those are the very people you need to get through this , because they have been thinking about it for a very long time.

 

 

UKIP is far from done, it's the opposition to Labour in a lot of areas and is a proper party in it's own right, it's not just an anti EU pressure group. Politicians can and do ignore people who know more than them, they do it all the time, the modern politician is conceited beyond belief and generally narcissistic along with it.

[Harbringe]

 

 

 

UKIP isn't going anywhere but I can't see it winning any time soon and he's getting on now, I can see him as an MP but nothing more, I don't think the establishment is ever going to give him the credit he deserves. I think we're in for some interesting times, if Labour don't get rid of Corbyn or do but replace him with another clown then we're going to start seeing UKIP MPs coming from Labours old heartlands, we're starting to see what happened to Labour in Scotland being repeated in working class areas of England.

 

 

 

UKIP is done , they have served their purpose , they have accomplished the task they had set out to do and will be dissolved once Great Britain leaves the EU in 2 years time , but that doesn't mean the people involved are not going to have a future in British politics . It doesn't make sense to ignore the people who have been looking at the EU and pointing out its failings and when the time comes to put to the test what they have been saying , they wont be involved . Nonsense those are the very people you need to get through this , because they have been thinking about it for a very long time.

 

 

UKIP is far from done, it's the opposition to Labour in a lot of areas and is a proper party in it's own right, it's not just an anti EU pressure group. Politicians can and do ignore people who know more than them, they do it all the time, the modern politician is conceited beyond belief and generally narcissistic along with it.

 

 

What I expect is a merging with one of the traditional British parties , likely the Conservatives . Consider it a cleaning out of the old to the new kinda reformation within the Conservative party.

[sunshinenbrick]

We may also see a rise of the Whigs.

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

UKIP isn't going anywhere but I can't see it winning any time soon and he's getting on now, I can see him as an MP but nothing more, I don't think the establishment is ever going to give him the credit he deserves. I think we're in for some interesting times, if Labour don't get rid of Corbyn or do but replace him with another clown then we're going to start seeing UKIP MPs coming from Labours old heartlands, we're starting to see what happened to Labour in Scotland being repeated in working class areas of England.

 

 

 

UKIP is done , they have served their purpose , they have accomplished the task they had set out to do and will be dissolved once Great Britain leaves the EU in 2 years time , but that doesn't mean the people involved are not going to have a future in British politics . It doesn't make sense to ignore the people who have been looking at the EU and pointing out its failings and when the time comes to put to the test what they have been saying , they wont be involved . Nonsense those are the very people you need to get through this , because they have been thinking about it for a very long time.

 

 

UKIP is far from done, it's the opposition to Labour in a lot of areas and is a proper party in it's own right, it's not just an anti EU pressure group. Politicians can and do ignore people who know more than them, they do it all the time, the modern politician is conceited beyond belief and generally narcissistic along with it.

 

 

What I expect is a merging with one of the traditional British parties , likely the Conservatives . Consider it a cleaning out of the old to the new kinda reformation within the Conservative party.

 

 

It's possible but there is a lot of animosity in the membership towards the Tories, far more than there is towards Labour, then there are the new red kippers, they'd rather cut their own arms off then merge with the Tories. A split in the Labour Party would be interesting and possible if Corbyn carries on like his is, some on the left of UKIP could certainly work with those on the right of Labour, whether they'd work with UKIP is a different matter of course. Whatever happens we're in for some interesting times.

[Harbringe]

just a friendly reminder that unwarranted foreign governments create resistance movements

 

when I said I support national sovereignty, the list of names there all include extremely violent national liberation groups that are found mostly to be just in history (the idea that independence is wasteful is generally a narrative crafted by those who want control over other people)

I'm relatively tame when it comes to support, a bit more enlightened if you will

 

and I tend to come forwards with ideas others have down the line, even as I mentioned feminism as a standin for most of the SJW stuff, including BLM, I was saying the same things as those groups more or less 5 years prior

and I stand by my saying it, they were warnings of what's to come and that those who didn't listen would deserve their fate of dealing with it for ignoring their own hand in creating it because power without accountability breeds dissent faster than rabbits and by dissent I mean the range of it, from "I disagree" to "kill them all"

 

so I'll give you guys that little factoid as well, now bear that in mind as you discuss the merits of an EU army/brexit thing

and of course we know from history that germany has a serious problem trying to colonize the rest of europe with its power structures, as does napoleon/france

and they were basically trying their own form of eurozone, I highly suspect the entire concept of a centrally powerful eurozone is in itself a garbage idea - although the perpetrators of such ideologies tend to cloak themselves in very progressive rhetoric often, as did alexander (the great) of macedon

 

typically however, cyrus the great is preferred, his empire left local governments alone, as well as their religions, it's not often the jews in antiquity/the bible like a foreign guy, but his form of kingdom making wasn't the kind of thing you see with the EU, no wonder his version lasted and the tyrants' schemes as many of them as there are, fell like so many berlin walls

 

daniels 11:30ish-45 or so has a great explanation of these things, it's an after-the-fact biblical account (it's a historical record of what happened basically albeit 2nd hand probably) of alexander of macedon's rampage for progressive values throughout the world, also one must remember genghis khan's progressive one trading zone values, and how he got his, etc and how non-lasting they are (with exception to the results attributable to the fun thing we call the black death that he brought around from china)

 

Nazis offered peace with the Allies in 1941… but only if they were allowed to invade Russia

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2433733/How-Nazis-offered-peace-treaty-World-War-II-meant-selling-Russians.html

 

I've detached a lot of more contemporary stuff aside from the worst tyrants, because the bible stuff while I don't believe in it, is a good example of stuff so old there's no partisan politics around for it, and yet the attitudes live on, and people probably know more about it than other even more obscure things

 

Very insightful post . kudos . Its also interesting to note that Cyrus is the only ruler of antiquity that the ancient Jews ever bestowed the title of Great upon. The bible a book that covers roughly 2000 years of history and he is the only one to garner that distinction . Quite impressive.

[avallanche]

I really don't want to disrupt the subject of the discussion but I just want to point out the obvious parallel between Brexit, Trump and Ulfric's / Skyrim situation... very interesting to say the least...

[Harbringe]

I really don't want to disrupt the subject of the discussion but I just want to point out the obvious parallel between Brexit, Trump and Ulfric's / Skyrim situation... very interesting to say the least...

 

Hmm I just had another thought about that . For those who have made a post in this thread , in Skyrim did you on your first playthrough choose Ulfric or the Empire . I chose Ulfric. Might be indicative of personality traits.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

I really don't want to disrupt the subject of the discussion but I just want to point out the obvious parallel between Brexit, Trump and Ulfric's / Skyrim situation... very interesting to say the least...

 

Hmm I just had another thought about that . For those who have made a post in this thread , in Skyrim did you on your first playthrough choose Ulfric or the Empire . I chose Ulfric. Might be indicative of personality traits.

 

 

My first playthrough was Ulfric.

[JimboUK]

Dow closed down 600 points, worse day since 2011 and losing most 2016 gains.

 

 

That was a news title on my phone new thing just now.

 

It's been really odd, our stock market actually closed up on the week and today outperformed the rest of Europe, you'd think it would have been a disaster area.

 

http://i.imgur.com/aC04zcq.jpg