Future of EU...

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

Nevertheless you can hear a lot of whining from less fortunate EU member countries, claiming EU had ruined their economies. There are always good and bad sides of things, and main problem right now would be to measure up pros and cons correctly. I think UK did the math...

Yea through propaganda, lies and bigotry. UK managed to lose a large portion of their money, their GDP still hasn't recovered fully, the leaders who orchestrated leave are stepping down left and right, Northern Ireland and Scotland are pissed off due to a majority being in remain which could lead to both of them leaving the UK, poor areas of the UK will no longer get the EU benefits they relied on, city councils are finding out they've been lied to by Leave who said "hey we'll make sure you get the same amount of relief money the EU gave you" but whoops nope not happening, the NHS won't see an increase and due to the open entry and easy foreign employment EU citizens saw they will no longer be getting doctors and nurses to support their understaffed hospitals which is becoming a big problem and more and more hate crimes and speech are being reported in England.

 

UK certainly did the math, except they got a big fat F on the test.

 

Freedom is worth more than money, a concept the Brits still believe in.

I fully understand why they prefer elected leaders in London rather than appointed bureaucrats in Brussels.

Given European history I'll give the Brits an A+ in Poly Sci.

 

 

From what I gathered, one of the main reasons for leaving was to actually curb people's freedoms, or at least to... *cough*... 'redirect' them.

 

What I see is a lot of EU sour grapes, much like the crazy ex that won't comprehend its over even after being told so.

"People who trade freedom for security usually end up with neither"- Ben Franklin

 

 

Shouldn't have cheated on them then :laugh:

 

Your quote can be read in more than one way... It can be easily said that the idea was to buy into security - 'Take Control' 'No Freedom of Movement' etc... etc... This is perhaps the result they got (emphasis on they), and it will unlikely be applicable to the vast majority of us. Well in a way it might, but then social disorder and division is not going to be very beneficial to us. Again, to the upper classes it will remain 'business as usual', as it always does.

 

Now this is not to say that it isn't predictable nor that it necessarily be the worst case scenario in the long run, however it is perhaps important to note the actual freedoms and securities of which have been gained/rejected. The real problem with the EU is that it actually gives TOO MUCH power and freedom to its citizens (well according to certain business, corporate, and political interests that is). In such times as when there is much uncertainty (The Financial Crash 2008™ is still only in its early stages) this 'people means of production' creates a very big problem for investors because markets need to be much more dynamic and fluid so as to maintain the large amounts of growth they need, however people are much less willing to take risks in new industries (and life in general) - and the crunch of it being that the larger investors don't actually want them to, because they don't really want the competition.

 

What this all means is that there is lack of faith in the classical neo-liberal free market capitalism that got us to where we are today. It has been corrupted to the point where it isn't working for people the way it was originally sold. So the reset button was pushed... BOOM! #'We're gonna go Back in Time' 'diddle doot doot doot doot doo!'

 

Time for neo-neo-liberal 'free market' economics, and so we are back in the 1980's. All that is missing now is Thatcher and Reagan... Oh, wait a minute! Who are these fine people over here??! Phew! So, we will get to use these shiny water cannons after all!

 

The system cannot be allowed to 'fail', so give people a false choice, sell them their freedom and then watch them all run around like turkeys voting for Christmas. It may (no pun intended) have been a contingency plan, but the agenda will stay the same.

[Aurielius]

Let us remember why the EU /Common Market was established..to prevent the continuation of the endless continental wars by binding Europe into a common collective. It was Eurocentric (read Franco-German) from it's inception.

 

I liked both Thacher and Reagan, both effective leaders who knew how and when to make a stand.....compared to the MEP's it's no contest.

[sunshinenbrick]

Let us remember why the EU /Common Market was established..to prevent the continuation of the endless continental wars by binding Europe into a common collective. It was Eurocentric (read Franco-German) from it's inception.

 

I liked both Thacher and Reagan, both effective leaders who knew how and when to make a stand.....compared to the MEP's it's no contest.

 

I thought you might say that, and I hope I agree :wink:

 

However, I would be wary handing out too much morale praise to politicians, because they are trained illusionists who will steal from right under your nose in such a way as to make you think you'd cut it off yourself... I would also say a lot of credit should also be given to the many people and workers who gave their lives as communities across the country were ripped apart (much to the benefit of the bankers and elites who created this mess and have continued to steal from the people ever since).

 

The freedoms and liberties we enjoy today (or perhaps, used to...) were not given to us, they were fought for, and not all wars are won by drones in distant lands.

[Aurielius]

 

Let us remember why the EU /Common Market was established..to prevent the continuation of the endless continental wars by binding Europe into a common collective. It was Eurocentric (read Franco-German) from it's inception.

 

I liked both Thacher and Reagan, both effective leaders who knew how and when to make a stand.....compared to the MEP's it's no contest.

 

I thought you might say that, and I hope I agree :wink:

 

However, I would be wary handing out too much morale praise to politicians, because they are trained illusionists who will steal from right under your nose in such a way as to make you think you'd cut it off yourself... I would also say a lot of credit should also be given to the many people and workers who gave their lives as communities across the country were ripped apart (much to the benefit of the bankers and elites who created this mess and have continued to steal from the people ever since). The freedoms and liberties we (used to) enjoy today, were not given to us. Not all wars are fought by drones in a distant land.

 

My view of Politicians is much akin to Twain's..."Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

Let us remember why the EU /Common Market was established..to prevent the continuation of the endless continental wars by binding Europe into a common collective. It was Eurocentric (read Franco-German) from it's inception.

 

I liked both Thacher and Reagan, both effective leaders who knew how and when to make a stand.....compared to the MEP's it's no contest.

 

I thought you might say that, and I hope I agree :wink:

 

However, I would be wary handing out too much morale praise to politicians, because they are trained illusionists who will steal from right under your nose in such a way as to make you think you'd cut it off yourself... I would also say a lot of credit should also be given to the many people and workers who gave their lives as communities across the country were ripped apart (much to the benefit of the bankers and elites who created this mess and have continued to steal from the people ever since). The freedoms and liberties we (used to) enjoy today, were not given to us. Not all wars are fought by drones in a distant land.

 

My view of Politicians is much akin to Twain's..."Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."

 

 

Now, on that there is no mistake! :no:

[HeyYou]

Reagan started out in life as an actor. :)

 

As for politicians, I lean more toward "imbeciles"......

[Beriallord]

Brits should vote UKIP, French should vote Front National, US citizens should vote Donald Trump, and Russians should keep voting for Vladimir Putin. Everyone else should vote for populism over globalism.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Beriallord

[CiderMuffin]

Brits should vote UKIP, French should vote Front National, US citizens should vote Donald Trump, and Russians should keep voting for Vladimir Putin. Everyone else should vote for populism over globalism.

So basically everyone should go fascist and racist. Yea, how about we not vote in people whose major platform is kicking out anyone who isn't the same color as they are. UKIP proved it's incompetence with the Leave campaign basically hurting Britain more then it helped, Front National is so far-right neo-nazis love them and even it's founder was criticized for his positive views of neo-nazism, Donald Trump is a moron con artist who has been sued over 3,500 times, is constantly spouting out incorrect racist views, is hated world wide, who is constantly employing white supremacists and tweeting neo-nazi propaganda, even his plans would not only ruin our economy but ruin the global market.

 

The last thing we need is a new Axis power.

Edited July 15, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[Aurielius]

Given what has happened in Nice, Brussels and Paris how can anyone support the EU's open immigration policies? Uncontrolled Immigration mandated by Brussels was the tipping point in the Brexit debate. When a ship (EU) hits an iceberg it is not assured safety to get into the lifeboats (Brexit), but it's more dangerous to stay on board while the bridge focuses on rearranging the deck chairs as the ship goes under.

[CiderMuffin]

Given what has happened in Nice, Brussels and Paris how can anyone support the EU's open immigration policies? Uncontrolled Immigration mandated by Brussels was the tipping point in the Brexit debate. When a ship (EU) hits an iceberg it is not assured safety to get into the lifeboats (Brexit), but it's more dangerous to stay on board while the bridge focuses on rearranging the deck chairs as the ship goes under.

So your plan is to make it worse by encouraging closed borders and giving the people who are actually a problem more support. This is exactly what terrorists want, to spread fear, ignorance and hatred around so they can use it to make their enemies into the bad guy.

 

Brexit-like solutions is not the answer nor was it even a smart idea. At this point we've reached to the fact you can't simply ignore people and close down borders and just hope it all gets better. Because it won't get better, playing not at home with heavy locks just makes it worse

Edited July 15, 2016 by CiderMuffin