Future of EU...

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

The trouble with Radical Islam is, moderate Islam....... The radicals make a lot of noise, kill a lot of people, and the moderates are extremely quiet. They don't condemn the attacks, they don't say squat, which in most folks views, translates to tacit agreement/support. So, it isn't just the radicals that are seen as the problem, but, Islam as a whole. Of course, some of the tenets of even moderate islam are incompatible with western values....... and the Islamists that come to our shores, be it the US, Europe, UK, don't 'integrate' at all. They form their own small communities, and continue to live by the rules they grew up under, and then act surprised when the 'natives' don't appreciate them, don't want to adapt to THEIR way of life, and most certainly do not accept their values. After all, Islam isn't just a 'religion', it's a political system, that attempts to rule EVERY aspect of your life. One of the suburbs of Detroit USED to be 80% white. Today, it is under 50%.... with about 30% of being of arab descent....... it's like being transported to Iraq... (without the violence....)

 

A good deal of that depends on who and what you listen to.

 

Mainstream media will sing to the tune of whatever gets people riled up as it ensures more outrage and thus more readers/viewers. Staying silent, or out of the issue does not automatically imply endorsement or approval, where is the freedom to remain silent if that is the case?? If you think it has nothing to do with you anyway then why would you 'get involved'? Many people would see that as an admission of guilt too - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Lest we forget it was 'us' who steamrolled our way into many parts of the world post WWII, Gulf War, Iraq, Syria... wherever next... so I guess, yeah, they are involved now. Bill Hicks' 'pick up the gun' comes to mind...

 

Many muslims DO speak out against such crimes, and are in fact are the victims of it! How many muslims have you actually spoken to on the subject? When they do speak out, why would the western media promote it anyway, as it doesn't help their cause?

 

 

 

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

 

Seriously are you insane . I don't ever recall Nigel Farange , Donald Trump or Charlie Hebdo ever calling for the deaths of anyone . I don't know if you understand what freedom of speech is about but the people of Charlie Hebdo did and its what got them massacred by people who follow a particular ideology and would silence that very freedom of speech. The equivalency you made was not only embarrassing it show a complete ignorance of what it is that you are faced with .

 

 

Are you serious? Drone attacks? Iraq? Syria?

 

You don't have to use the word 'death' in order to incite bigotry, hatred, violence, and to point the finger at others for all the ills in peoples' lives. Is it really necessary to point these things out, or are you just unwilling to see both sides of it?

 

The mechanics of how these things happen is always, somewhat conveniently, hard to pin down, and it is also easy to turn a blind eye and not make connections when it happens in a desert, thousands of miles away.

 

 

The subject wasn't Drone strikes , iraq , or Syria but freedom of speech and how some deem it necessary to kill simply for expressing a point of view . If you want to talk about how Iraq was a war crime or drone strikes are a completely unjust and ineffective means that should only be used in the direst of circumstance or how our so called allies are funding a terrorist war in Syria with our (the West's) complicity , ok . But that wasn't what I was speaking to . Try not to conflate the woe's of the world to what I was speaking to.

 

 

My apologies, but there is a connection between the way in which western governments have twisted things and promoted certain points of view so as to further their agenda. Freedom of speech should not be affected by who you are or what you are saying. BOTH sides have caused unimaginable death and suffering, just because the west does not have to always resort to 'guerilla tactics' in order to achieve their goals does not make those actions any less atrocious or reprehensible. Nor that those actions will instill an obvious retaliation - if someone murders your family and takes away all you know and love, would anyone in 'the west' just accept it? Not likely, so why should they? It might be an uncomfortable question, but it is a legitimate one.

 

I'll admit the message can sometimes be very subtle, if even presented, but these things still happen and the results are equally devastating. A crude example (no pun intended, honest!), is how governments and the media will steer the narrative, and also provide the environment where people in the west are killing and causing destruction just by doing what they do best... consuming. New cars, phones, cheap energy, oil, products, products, and more products. Where does all that come from? Who bears the worst of the cost? There is a very ugly side to globalisation and western capital that we rarely, if ever, see, sitting in our living rooms watching chewing gum television while we munch on Nestle and guzzle down Coke. Then when things get tough and we start moaning about how hard life is, who do they turn to for blame? You guessed it, 'rapist Mexicans' and 'evil muslims' etc... etc... 'oh, it's all their fault!', so lets build a wall and then blow them all up so we can take everything for ourselves. It's modern day colonialisation, simple as.

 

Like I said, you don't have to say 'go kill these people' in order to get your message across and get what you want. Having said that, some of the rhetoric spouted these days begs belief... then when we look at mainstream and social media, or underground meetings of EDL, the KKK, or whatever, there are things said there that are on par with anything I imagine is said on the 'other side'. Where is the condemnation of this, often blatant, hate speech? As suggested in another post, to remain silent, or to even give a platform for it, can be seen by many as much a condoning of such views and actions as having done it yourself.

 

I am not really picking sides here as I find all of it deplorable and distasteful, but let us at least look at these things through the same lens, with open, unprejudiced eyes, and not rose-tinted glasses.

[JaYmZeE311074]

As far as I'm concerned, the mainstream media has taken over from organized religion as the main method of both controlling and distracting the population in western societies.

 

They boil things down into nice easy to digest barely believable but hugely popular opinions that only make any sense or hold any water until you subject them to the slightest amount of scrutiny.

 

The overwhelming majority of the human race is either living completely without hope or have been manipulated into believing that the existence we currently lead is the right one and more importantly - the only one, that people who dare to believe their are real genuine alternatives to the wage slave false need consummerism society that consistently horrifies me and has done since I finished my first week of work at age 16 are deluded dreamers and fluffy cloud idealists.

 

We are being set against each other from early in our socialization - told that competition is the driving force and how progress is to be made. Yet we are not making any real progress and the simple fact is that progress is deliberately kept from us because of the tsumani of change they could make to our way of lives and that quite simply does not suit the system we are both currently "agents and victims off" - Peter Joseph's line.

 

The problems the west face are of their own creation. When you constantly rape lesser nations for their resource, sell them arms leaving them completely and utterly in debted to you and then decide on regime change when one of them has the balls not to bend to your will time after time eventually it's going to blow up in your face. The resentment builds and builds and if you just put yourself in the shoes of these other people and nations for 5 seconds and THINK about how we look to them what's happening now is so easy to understand is defies belief that so many still don't get it.

 

Meanwhile the media constantly tries to keep you from seeing the real issues by diverting your attention and claiming this act was done by this group and that fear is what people are feeling.... insert an interview with some dumb smuck who'll happily say how they're scared of their neighbour and don't want to walk the streets. Every incident is sensationalised beyond all belief and you are told how you should be horrified by these actions and these groups and if your not then your not one of us - your an outcast.

 

People seem far too unwilling to question what they're being told by the media, their own governments or agents of the system via whatever source their granted access too. So rarely is their any opportunity given to someone educated to give an alternative view or opinion - or the bias given to one view is so blatent that you must be mad to believe any other opinion.

 

Well I am mad - Count me in as a hippy, tinfoil hat wearing truthseer. We can accomplish so much more together - the high demand scarcity farce of an open market that exists today is not the only way. Only persueing goals that are profitable is the dumbest most horrific joke ever played on us. The constant exploitation of 90 odd percent of this planets population achieved in ways that are now becoming so obvious has to stop - setting us at odds with each other can only be successful if we do not accept the truth of what is going on.

 

Things are different now for one very important reason - we - the human race now has a clock over it's head - we don't fully understand the planet we live on but we know enough - it is showing us that things are changing and that for us to survive as a species we MUST CHANGE OUR WAYS - money means nothing - it's a human construct that has been warped beyond any useful meaning - we need to be thinking as one and working to the only set of rules that matter - those set by the environment about us - if we continue on the path we are on we are doomed.

 

We went to the moon - not because it was easy - because it was hard - In so many adverts you see human achievments from decades ago shown as examples of how great we are - because it was decades ago that we completely lost our way.

 

In the 50's it was realised that soon it was going to become easy to do more with much less - people would only have to work 2 or 3 days a week, goods would become cheaper and would last for ages. This didn't suit the system and we end up forced down the path we sit on currently - still being so easily diverted by some horrendous form of malevolant apathy and unwillingness to think for ourselves. So easy would it be to just sit back and think well, it's what the human race deserves - BUT I BELIEVE WE ARE CAPABLE OF SO MUCH BETTER - I believe that we are worth saving - as much as I wish it wasn't so I give a frelling dren about the future of our race and occasionally feel the need to once again ask people to just open your eyes - have a look at the evidence that is there - watch a film that contradicts your believes - open your mind and don't believe what I or anyone else tells you - but educate yourself and come to your own conclusions - if we do not we're on the brink of extinction and whilst I may face ridicule for my worst case scenario believes and the weak minded feeble believe that we are capable of seeing the truth and changing before it's too late - that's something I'm willing to live with if what I write here makes even one person waken up and dig a little deeper for what is really going on.

 

The fact that I'm madder than the maddest mad basterdo every to exist is madsville bothers me not one bit - because anyone who see's the truth and remains sane is sicker than the society we are part off.

 

Goods designed to fail purely for repeat purchasing caused by need for profit.

Cures for diseases not persued because they're not profitable.

A people who used to sit as one to watch such things as landing on the moon now watching Simon Cowel or TOWIE or Geordie Shore.

Obsession with material wealth that is completely pointless. Objects bought that serve no purpose other than to delude yourself into believeing you've achieved something.

The completely false pretense that a) the playing fleld is remotely even or that b) you have any control whatsoever

 

from where your kneeling it must seem like an 18 ct run of bad luck - The truth is, the game was rigged from the start.

 

I have something to say, it's better to burn out, than to fade away.

[kvnchrist]

 

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

 

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

 

You close down a mosque, you give Isis the chance to call you antimuslim. You charge them and have them physically bury the dead, you show them what those who call themselves Muslim are doing in the name of their religion and place the idea that these terrorists are the ones that is causing their grief which may get cause those Muslims that have t do this work to see the benefits of policing up their own selves, which will completely remove the chance of Isis using any of this.

[JimboUK]

 

 

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

 

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

 

You close down a mosque, you give Isis the chance to call you antimuslim. You charge them and have them physically bury the dead, you show them what those who call themselves Muslim are doing in the name of their religion and place the idea that these terrorists are the ones that is causing their grief which may get cause those Muslims that have t do this work to see the benefits of policing up their own selves, which will completely remove the chance of Isis using any of this.

 

 

Do you think the families of the dead would want the remains of their loved ones used like that? I sure as hell wouldn't. ISIS calls anyone who doesn't agree with anti Muslim, that includes non Sunni Muslims, we're way past the hearts and minds stuff, we're at war and need to start treating radicals as the enemy, pandering to them hasn't worked. If western leaders don't get a grip of this then people are going start matters into their own hands and the result won't be pretty, anyone who even looks middle eastern or south asian is going to get it, France is on the edge at moment, if things start there then it will spread and we'll see a bloodbath.

[Aurielius]

 

 

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

 

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

 

You close down a mosque, you give Isis the chance to call you antimuslim. You charge them and have them physically bury the dead, you show them what those who call themselves Muslim are doing in the name of their religion and place the idea that these terrorists are the ones that is causing their grief which may get cause those Muslims that have t do this work to see the benefits of policing up their own selves, which will completely remove the chance of Isis using any of this.

 

The liberal fantasy is that if you are reasonable with your enemies they also will react with reason. Some ideologies have no compromise position. Radical Islam is not much different from Nazism..sociopathic lack of empathy for their victims, pseudo religious trappings and a haven for disaffected killers. Back when, we (the allies ) insisted on unconditional surrender of the Axis powers..which did not occur until we pulverized their infrastructure into the bronze age and occupied their territory for decades. We are fast heading to a point where that will be our only viable option.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

You close down a mosque, you give Isis the chance to call you antimuslim. You charge them and have them physically bury the dead, you show them what those who call themselves Muslim are doing in the name of their religion and place the idea that these terrorists are the ones that is causing their grief which may get cause those Muslims that have t do this work to see the benefits of policing up their own selves, which will completely remove the chance of Isis using any of this.

The liberal fantasy is that if you are reasonable with your enemies they also will react with reason. Some ideologies have no compromise position. Radical Islam is not much different from Nazism..sociopathic lack of empathy for their victims, pseudo religious trappings and a haven for disaffected killers. Back when, we (the allies ) insisted on unconditional surrender of the Axis powers..which did not occur until we pulverized their infrastructure into the bronze age and occupied their territory for decades. We are fast heading to a point where that will be our only viable option.

It is probable that was the plan from the start, both then and now. The real challenge is to try replace such ideologies and regimes with something better... which is where things get murky - modern capitalism increasingly sharing many of the same attributes of that which it proposes to claim moral dominance over.

[JaYmZeE311074]

 

 

 

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

 

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

 

You close down a mosque, you give Isis the chance to call you antimuslim. You charge them and have them physically bury the dead, you show them what those who call themselves Muslim are doing in the name of their religion and place the idea that these terrorists are the ones that is causing their grief which may get cause those Muslims that have t do this work to see the benefits of policing up their own selves, which will completely remove the chance of Isis using any of this.

 

The liberal fantasy is that if you are reasonable with your enemies they also will react with reason. Some ideologies have no compromise position. Radical Islam is not much different from Nazism..sociopathic lack of empathy for their victims, pseudo religious trappings and a haven for disaffected killers. Back when, we (the allies ) insisted on unconditional surrender of the Axis powers..which did not occur until we pulverized their infrastructure into the bronze age and occupied their territory for decades. We are fast heading to a point where that will be our only viable option.

 

As far as I'm aware a large part of the problem is the fact that we are and have been pulverising their infrastructure into the bronze age for the last 15 years.

 

Equating local Mosques with the nutjobs that carry out these terrorist attacks and suggesting that they are either a) the place where these attacks are organized or b) completely ignoring the fact that these attacks are largely carried out by recent "converts" to muslim and most are in no way practicing muslims in any way shape or form.

 

I'm agnostic - but my contempt for all human religions is equal - our western governments commit atrocities in the name of god - the whole god bless this and god bless us belongs with witch hunts and the belief that we are at the center of the universe - are in anyway special/chosen or the world being flat.

 

Plus we have the massive assumption that ISIS is some militant arm of the muslim religion - their as likely a creation of western intelligence agencies as they are anything to do with any religion whatsoever. I don't claim that as fact - I DON'T KNOW - but I am certain that we invaded Afghanistan which can barely be justified - unless of course you just believe everything the media told you - IRAQ, which was entirely based on lies - Libya for reasons that are completely beyond me (I know what we were told - and completely dismiss it as total BS) and Syria because we decided that the rebels were a better option that Asad.

 

So I really think our local churches should be paying for the funerals of the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians that WE DEFINITELY killed in wars that steamrolled over international law on the basis of lies, abhorent agenda's and a complete disregard for human life.

 

In fact, I think the level of ignorance shown here is beyond belief - I'm starting to think that eugenics wasn't such a bad idea after all - not with any motivation against any colour, sex, belief system or sexuality but to try and weed out the idiocy that is responsible for holding the human race back.

 

Yeah - if the powers that be want me to join against any group within humanity - it wouldn't take much to motivate against idiots.

 

I mean - you talk about ideologies that have a no compromise position - I'd include the current western ideology as one of the - if not the - worst offender.

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

 

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

 

You close down a mosque, you give Isis the chance to call you antimuslim. You charge them and have them physically bury the dead, you show them what those who call themselves Muslim are doing in the name of their religion and place the idea that these terrorists are the ones that is causing their grief which may get cause those Muslims that have t do this work to see the benefits of policing up their own selves, which will completely remove the chance of Isis using any of this.

 

The liberal fantasy is that if you are reasonable with your enemies they also will react with reason.

 

Radicals see kindness and tolerance as a weakness to be exploited, it's something these wooly headed liberals can't get through their thick skulls.

[RGMage2]

 

-snip-

 

Things are different now for one very important reason - we - the human race now has a clock over it's head - we don't fully understand the planet we live on but we know enough - it is showing us that things are changing and that for us to survive as a species we MUST CHANGE OUR WAYS - money means nothing - it's a human construct that has been warped beyond any useful meaning - we need to be thinking as one and working to the only set of rules that matter - those set by the environment about us - if we continue on the path we are on we are doomed.

 

-snip-

 

We are but dust mites on a turtle's back, with grand delusions of our own importance. When the turtle inevitably dies we will be swept away. And the turtle will die, not by our hands but by natural causes.

 

The logical course of action for the human race would be to exploit to the maximum every available resource and keep our science and technology moving forward no matter the cost to ourselves or the planet until we find another turtle.

 

It is better to exist than to not exist.

[sunshinenbrick]

Radicals see kindness and tolerance as a weakness to be exploited, it's something these wooly headed liberals can't get through their thick skulls.

 

Is this supposed to be an example of kindness and tolerance? :tongue:

 

Besides, isn't radicalism relative? And if 'liberals' don't understand it, then who are the radicals? Conservatives?

 

Perhaps unfortunately, political appropriation (not to mention cultural language differences) has made it difficult to commonly define these things - for example history has shown us that Conservatives (usually with a capital 'C') are often the most progressive and liberal of the bunch. They are also for a reason rarely associated with kindness and tolerance.

 

True enough, 'conservatism' (with a small 'c'), which I find often can define many of my own personal values (although I consider myself a mixed bag, not being fond of labels, particularly those given by others), does promote many such qualities. However, so does 'liberalism' (with a small 'l'), and it ultimately largely depends on personal/social connotations and semantics.

 

I'm not so sure it as easy, or quite so binary, as you appear to imply here.

 

 

We are but dust mites on a turtle's back, with grand delusions of our own importance...

 

...exploit to the maximum every available resource and keep our science and technology moving forward no matter the cost to ourselves or the planet...

 

It is better to exist than to not exist.

 

Isn't this a contradiction??

 

Does't the turtle also benefit from existing? Which it would do for longer was it not being exploited so. A symbiosis?

 

I share a lot of your sentiment, but I think there is something in the sustainable and considered use of resources, rather than simply using of them as quickly as possible till they are gone... what is the point of the science and technology if you are no longer able to use it, for example?