Future of EU...

[sunshinenbrick]

 

It is 'Western' involvement that has displaced these people however. Our luxurious lives of low cost energy, consumables and health care come at a price... a price many seem unwilling to pay. You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

How so?

I think you answered part of that question in your reply above. Regarding the cake... apart from it being a lie (;D) what makes us think we are so entitled to it? And why should others not be able to try have a piece?

 

It's a political choice rather than the 'ethical' one we are sold on TV. It's this false choice that irritates me so about the UK referendum.

 

Maybe things have no ethical value anymore... but then at least call it for what it is.

[Mirocu]

If nothing else, the EU should be deserted by everyone simply because it´s so far away from the initial state, and promises by the Yes side, that it´s not even funny. It has evolved into a beast of burden rather than a relief and simplifier of things. And things do not look as they will get any easier or for that matter, cheaper.

 

 

Of course, it was never intended to be that.

[Rethrain]

If nothing else, the EU should be deserted by everyone simply because it´s so far away from the initial state, and promises by the Yes side, that it´s not even funny. It has evolved into a beast of burden rather than a relief and simplifier of things. And things do not look as they will get any easier or for that matter, cheaper.

 

 

Of course, it was never intended to be that.

 

If I were really smart, I'd be selling people like you pitchforks and torches.

[Deleted1205226User]

@Rethrain I like the way you think. :)

[JimboUK]

 

 

It is 'Western' involvement that has displaced these people however. Our luxurious lives of low cost energy, consumables and health care come at a price... a price many seem unwilling to pay. You can't have your cake and eat it.

How so?

I think you answered part of that question in your reply above. Regarding the cake... apart from it being a lie ( :laugh:) what makes us think we are so entitled to it? And why should others not be able to try have a piece?

 

It's a political choice rather than the 'ethical' one we are sold on TV. It's this false choice that irritates me so about the UK referendum.

 

Maybe things have no ethical value anymore... but then at least call it for what it is.

 

 

The choice is anything but false, for many it's the first vote where they can actually change something, sadly if they vote remain it'll be the last one.

 

 

If nothing else, the EU should be deserted by everyone simply because it´s so far away from the initial state, and promises by the Yes side, that it´s not even funny. It has evolved into a beast of burden rather than a relief and simplifier of things. And things do not look as they will get any easier or for that matter, cheaper.

 

 

Of course, it was never intended to be that.

 

If I were really smart, I'd be selling people like you pitchforks and torches.

 

 

I you were smart you'd counter what he said.

[Rethrain]

There was nothing to counter, buddy. He gave no logic, he keeps giving no logic. He's simply being propagandistic and absurd.

 

One can be debating all they want, and that's fine, they are entitled to that, just as I'm entitled to do so myself, whether I disagree or not that is matter for debate, fair is fair. But buddy, this isn't a rally. I don't need propaganda. It's a debate.

[MajKrAzAm]

It is 'Western' involvement that has displaced these people however. Our luxurious lives of low cost energy, consumables and health care come at a price... a price many seem unwilling to pay. You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

Absolutely. We should flood an increasingly aging and childless Western Europe with hostile foreigners that are completely at odds with its culture, history, religion and heritage.

 

As bad as American government is, Europe's is deeply insane. Europeans resist full rebellion because they would rather do anything than be labeled racist. Hopefully in both places people lose their timidity about this.

[JimboUK]

There was nothing to counter, buddy. He gave no logic, he keeps giving no logic. He's simply being propagandistic and absurd.

 

One can be debating all they want, and that's fine, they are entitled to that, just as I'm entitled to do so myself, whether I disagree or not that is matter for debate, fair is fair. But buddy, this isn't a rally. I don't need propaganda. It's a debate.

 

His point is that what started off a trading block has morphed into something quite different, if you knew anything about the subject you'd have known what he meant.

[Rethrain]

Okay dude, you got me, I'm not a mind reader.

 

Oh and one more thing, my issue was never with you...not in truth. Was with someone else (you know who). And still very valid. He is still reacting with emotion, which is why if I have to read minds it's silly. and if I have to watch more propaganda it's also silly. And not the first time it happend to me personally.

 

Everyone gets it, you know? You want out( as well as many others), regardless of anything, it leaves little room for doubt.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

It is 'Western' involvement that has displaced these people however. Our luxurious lives of low cost energy, consumables and health care come at a price... a price many seem unwilling to pay. You can't have your cake and eat it.

How so?

 

I think you answered part of that question in your reply above. Regarding the cake... apart from it being a lie ( :laugh:) what makes us think we are so entitled to it? And why should others not be able to try have a piece?

 

It's a political choice rather than the 'ethical' one we are sold on TV. It's this false choice that irritates me so about the UK referendum.

 

Maybe things have no ethical value anymore... but then at least call it for what it is.

 

The choice is anything but false, for many it's the first vote where they can actually change something, sadly if they vote remain it'll be the last one.

 

 

By false I don't mean it won't have an impact, but rather that it won't have the impact people are being led to believe it will. What people are being made to believe they are voting for is not what they will get. Of course we could say this about both sides of the choice but it still misplaces people's hopes.

 

For example immigration is likely to stay the same either way and if it does decrease it will be for all the reasons people wouldn't want it to happen - a failing economy. Cuts to public spending is a capitalist idea and has little to do with where people come from. 'Sovereignty' is an idea that is basically defunct in our modern world (pushed by most politicians and corporations) and we should actually start seeing ourselves as migrants within our own countries. Also there is not a long leap from stopping benefits to migrants and the 'native' population, nor the necessity to start deporting people who don't contribute, 'British' or otherwise. How many of us would make it through our own 'points system' I wonder?

 

The decisions made by the EU have been in large part actually spear-headed by the UK and the self-interested suited bureaucrats that we spawned into existence along with the USA back in the 80's. These people are not interested in our quality of life in either case, they just want the decision to be 'ours' so they can pass the blame if and when it all comes crashing down. On that note, being sent to war as a soldier is also a type of migration... but, I suppose then at least the numbers would go down...

 

Whatever happens it will be spun until we don't know what is up or down. This is the plan and why the whole thing is a façade. Excuse my French :D

 

All that being said, I would think it more difficult to convince 27 countries and their populations, than it would be to manipulate the minds of one nation full of nationalists. Now, even if another World War™ is inevitable, one that the UK would never be able to keep out of, then surely we would pick our American and European partners over other options... ?