On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Talonflight]

In response to post #39470015. #39470195 is also a reply to the same post.

TTRJN wrote: Pardon my French, but that's one long ass rant.

Oh heroes of present times who dared to read it all, what OP is trying to tell to us?

jackty89 wrote: Very very inaccurate short version "Beth needs better moderation on their site, as the way they are acting now is like they don't care"

TLDR: People have been uploading PC Modder's mods, without their permission, to Bethesda.net Console Mod area. Dark0ne is angry that there doesn't seem to be any reaction from Bethesda on attempting to remove content that was used without the authors permission, since they can take weeks to respond to a single report even if many people are all reporting it.

[Wraiven]

In response to post #39470015. #39470195, #39470470 are all replies on the same post.

TTRJN wrote: Pardon my French, but that's one long ass rant.

Oh heroes of present times who dared to read it all, what OP is trying to tell to us?

jackty89 wrote: Very very inaccurate short version "Beth needs better moderation on their site, as the way they are acting now is like they don't care"

Talonflight wrote: TLDR: People have been uploading PC Modder's mods, without their permission, to Bethesda.net Console Mod area. Dark0ne is angry that there doesn't seem to be any reaction from Bethesda on attempting to remove content that was used without the authors permission, since they can take weeks to respond to a single report even if many people are all reporting it.

and there is now options to tick when uploading your mod about being able to use it on consoles etc

[Leubast]

Literally, my only problem with mods on console (other than the theft going on) is a user problem. If a mod breaks or breaks your game, you can't just go into the files and try to fix it. That could make console modding a nightmare. Plus not being able to use third-party software is a huge limit (SKSE, Script Dragon, FNIS, ASIS, ect).

BUT, I am happy people can finally mod on console to a degree.

[sargentcobi]

Daddy Robin that was long and VERY well written and we can only hope that your words and advice to Bethesda will sway them to take better care of mod authors.

[matortheeternal]

In response to post #39470550.

Everlive wrote: Literally, my only problem with mods on console (other than the theft going on) is a user problem. If a mod breaks or breaks your game, you can't just go into the files and try to fix it. That could make console modding a nightmare. Plus not being able to use third-party software is a huge limit (SKSE, Script Dragon, FNIS, ASIS, ect).
BUT, I am happy people can finally mod on console to a degree.

This isn't "my only problem", but I agree 100% on this being a huge issue. For me (and many others), modding is a lot more than just downloading mods. You manage load order, install order, patchers, and extenders, and it's only when you have the power to manage these things that high-level modding becomes maintainable. Consoles don't (and won't) ever allow this, because then they would be no longer be consoles, they'd be PCs.

No matter what, console modding is going to be a "dumb" version of PC modding. Honestly, modding + consoles is like mixing oil and water. It doesn't (really) make sense.

Things you can't do with console modding:
- SKSE
- SkyUI
- MCMs
- Engine-level bug fixes (See Crash Fixes and Lip Sync Bugfix mods from meh)
- Cleaning plugin files
- Automated patchers
- Automated load order sorting
- Merging plugins
- Extracting BSAs/BA2s
- Managing install order
- FOMOD Installers
- Any kind of modularity
- Building mods
- Editing mods
- Debugging CTDs
- Debugging load order
- Use the developer console to test things
- Use FNIS or other custom frameworks
- etc. ...

My point isn't that console modding shouldn't exist, but that we shouldn't break our backs trying to make it work. Edited June 17, 2016 by matortheeternal

[welldone89]

Someone has WAYYYY to much time. Is this hes script for a movie or something?

[Quaz30]

In response to post #39470015. #39470195, #39470470, #39470485 are all replies on the same post.

TTRJN wrote: Pardon my French, but that's one long ass rant.

Oh heroes of present times who dared to read it all, what OP is trying to tell to us?

jackty89 wrote: Very very inaccurate short version "Beth needs better moderation on their site, as the way they are acting now is like they don't care"

Talonflight wrote: TLDR: People have been uploading PC Modder's mods, without their permission, to Bethesda.net Console Mod area. Dark0ne is angry that there doesn't seem to be any reaction from Bethesda on attempting to remove content that was used without the authors permission, since they can take weeks to respond to a single report even if many people are all reporting it.

tallulahkat wrote: and there is now options to tick when uploading your mod about being able to use it on consoles etc

That you shouldn't think mods are only for PC and Beth should fix their s#*! up because they are out of standards that were estabilished over a decade ago.
And also that their site is broken and the management is terrible and the only way to take down your mod, that means filling a DMCA report, is bad and they should invent a better reporting system for Beth.theft.
And there was also a rant about users stealing content because they think it's ok.
I think that's all.

[TheForkOnTheLeft]

<3

[Jusey1]

I didn't fully read this, just skimmed through it. BUT that is because I already know everything that's going on, so I generally agree with what you're saying or at least what you are getting at.

 

However, from what I've read. You miss a few things, and there is some stupidity in there that you shouldn't have said at all.

 

Firstly, this modding business is a problem because of everybody involved. What I am saying is that there are more people making this a mess, than just the thefts themselves...

 

1. The thieves themselves for starting this ordeal... HOWEVER, there is probably two types of thieves going on. Console people who just wants to play the mod but has no idea why they shouldn't... And PC people who wants to cause trouble in the first place, or are PC elitists and wants to crash console users in general, giving no f*#@s about the modders themselves...

 

2. The console users who knowingly supports the thefts. Now, these people are pretty rare but they do exists and just having a few will cause any modder to be upset and highly judgemental.

 

3. The modders themselves being stupid over this crap. Yes, people stole ye' s#*&#33; and etc. Don't rant about it, don't go private, don't be stupid... Mods are your work and you should continue releasing your work, to as many people as possible. If someone stole a mod of yours, do what you need to do to fix it and let Bethesda know that they need to make a better system on Bethesda.net, but don't stop modding and don't make your mods go private. If possible, release those mods for console users yourself. That would greatly lower the chances of them stealing your mods.

 

Secondly, yes. Bethesda needs to do something to Bethesda.net and they are planning to do something at least. But we don't know how successful it will be until they do it. People also shouldn't complain about how long it takes for them to do it. Yes, they need to take action ASAP but they're are planning to put in a new system to help the modders and console users. They need to do it right, which can and will take some time to do it right. The longer they suggested means that they are really paying attention to this system and really want to put out something that works.

 

Lastly, paid mods are NOT gonna happen again. Don't be a doomsayer with that stupid stuff.

[Rooker75]

Honestly, I thought the FO4 GECK was delayed because someone there got the boneheaded idea they could make more money by withholding it until after they released DLC. The timing of its release makes me think I was right. It certainly taught me never to buy one of their new games until after they release its SDK. I play their games mainly for the modding, not for the game itself.

 

As I said when one of their early FO4 patches disabled mods and appeared to be deliberately tampering with config files to prevent mods from running, Bethesda appears to be attempting to assert an authority over modding they don't have and they need to back off. I lost interest, so I don't know if the true reason for that behavior was ever revealed.

 

I worry they'll look at the reaction to paid modding last year and the reaction to this now and decide supporting mods is more trouble than it's worth for them. While I'd love it if they backed away from trying to control modding, it would be a disaster for them and us (probably more for them than for us) if they decided to stop releasing SDKs for their games. If we could go back to the way things were at the beginning of last year, that would be great.

 

Anyway, just want to note one thing: If you file a DMCA complaint about a mod (or any other reason), the target of the complaint receives your name, address, email address and various other personal information. It could lead to doxxing, swatting and who knows what else.

 

I think using DMCA as a go to was a dumb way for them to handle this.

 

/edit: Forgot to mention, thanks for the new permission settings. I don't like the rights Beth/Zenimax grant themselves, so I'd already decided I want none of my mods on their site.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Rooker75