On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[jonboy]

In response to post #39503480.

numeriku wrote: http://a.fod4.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/citizen_cane.gif

Honestly, Bethesda made it perfectly clear where they stand and what they think of the modding community the moment they attempted paid-for mods. Bethesda only cares for Bethesda.

Bethesda as a for profit company should only care for themselves, so I can't hold that against them. That being said, if they hold how they are viewed as being influential on their future value, they will need to get it together.

[SkaSwag]

Read an article on PCgamesN about this, and decided to read it myself. I wondered how they figured out the post was 5,100 words. I speculated they used some kind of computer function. Wasn't expecting it to actually be mentioned in the post. And no, that wasn't my big take away from this. Edited June 19, 2016 by SkaSwag

[jonboy]

In response to post #39502600.

lsinsocal wrote: There is nothing wrong with mods for consoles. I think it's pretty cool they can enjoy them now too. I say that as a die-hard fan of pc gaming. If it was implemented correctly and mod authors were protected, this would be a very awesome addition to the community of modders/users, despite the modding learning curve ahead of them. It takes a lot of finesse to get your game working correctly with a lot of mods and console users are not used to that at all.

Unless Bethesda changes something drastically within their games that makes modding them less crashy, I don't see this as an easy transition and mod authors have the right to not want to deal with it.

Bethesda/Zenimax has gotten greedy though. I have always loved their games but the quality has gone downhill. Skyrim was a huge bugfest right out of the box. ESO is well... Okay, I'm not going there. Fallout 4 seems better to me so far but I only just started playing it this last month.

If you expected more from them with their own modding site, I'm shocked. They are going to drive away the best mod authors with practices like these but should any of us be surprised after the cash grab from last year?

The modding community, literally, made Bethesda games what they are today. I finished Skyrim back in Dec 2011 and I *only* play Skyrim now because of all the great mods made for it. I can go back and play Oblivion from 10 years ago and still enjoy it due entirely to mods. Same with the Fallout series. The only reason I continue to buy their games is because of how you can customize them with mods. Otherwise, there are game developers who put out far better quality games in their vanilla state. If it weren't for the modding potential, I probably would never have bought Skyrim.

It's sad that Bethesda either doesn't realize this or doesn't care about the impact modders have on their games.


It's the same trap Blizzard fell into. When you get wildly popular, you start letting what made you great slip for the sake of pulling in more money.

This is my experience with Bethesda games since Morrowind, mods have made decent to great games into incredible experiences.

Thank to you, modders!

If modders go away or Bethesda games become more closed to modding (badly done paid mods for instance), I lose 90% of the interest I have in their titles.

When I heard mods were coming to consoles, I thought it could be really good. Would be nice to share the experience with more people, even if they couldnt do everything we of the 'PCMasterRace' could. Maybe new armor/weapons, quests - expanding on vanilla FO4 without taxing the system. Hope it can still be that, but it sounds like Bethesda needs to get it together. Edited June 19, 2016 by jonboy

[sp4rkfist]

https://community.bethesda.net/thread/32339

 

"Uploading mods to Bethesda.net requires Fallout 4 ownership via a Steam-linked Bethesda.net account"

 

Looks like Bethesda have nice solution to prevent mod theft further.

[bluesunmerc]

In response to post #39484505. #39486655 is also a reply to the same post.

bluesunmerc wrote: Your thoughts are sound and your point is clear. I have nothing to add to the argument other than theft is theft people who steal can spin it anyway they want at the end of the day it is theft. I think its awesome that console have mods because it may spark a recently untapped potential in the Bethesda community that may start making their own mods because of how awesome the current mods are and they can see that they can do it to if they have the drive and determination to try it.

Hopefully Bethesda will step in and start to moderate it, because at the end of the day if mods continue to be stolen mod authors will stop making mods and then no one has mods. This is bad for the community and Bethesda seeing as how each game they come out with takes the idea of the mods from the past games (ie. fallout 4 crafting system and survival setting)

It is good to see that the nexus is behind the modders (of course I knew they would be) and are blasting down some of the idiotic statements that have been thrown around regarding the issue.

To any modders that may read this you have my support and I hope that this issue will be fixed as quickly as possible and it doesn't cause you to much headache. You are a talented set of individuals and thank you for making my elder scrolls and fallout experiences even better.

illage2 wrote: They are doing. They are making it so people who want to upload Mods to BethNet will need to link a Steam account and own Fallout 4 (eventually Skyrim remastered) on PC.

It won't stop mod theft 100% but Beth are finally taking a step in the right direction with it.

Here's the link. https://community.bethesda.net/thread/32339?tstart=0

Thanks for the link just read it. Yea, its good to see Bethesda stepping up to the plate. Regardless of what some people may say about Bethesda they stand behind their community. Do they do it perfect every time ? Of course not, but at least they try.

[GodvWar]

Hello guys and gals I jumped straight over here once a message from one of your modders here popped up on my TV screen. Now where to start, I am a gamer both console and PC but the former is where it all started as PC's weren't available to me nor capable at the time. What's going on here is disturbing but so was the message I received on my screen today. I'm not familiar with what's going on as a whole but believe after I'm done with this message I will look deep in to it. He mentioned us console gamers feeling entitled and whiny and how you guys could destroy our save games instantly or over time (this info was already known to me). Also he mentioned his reasoning of your mods being stolen and we shouldn't support it I will say I 100% DO NOT support the stealing of any of your hard work as I am extremely grateful you guys have decided to support consoles and in turn planed to support you. I also don't support corrupting save games of people who have no control over the situation especially the ones that have no idea or awareness of the situation. He said not to download stolen mods, you realize a lot of these guys have no way of knowing if they stole it or not or how to even find out right? Throw in some awareness with the issue point them in the right direction and Maybe with the combined force and voices it'll put enough pressure on Bethesda to a address the situation. Cause let's face it the "we want to stay out of it as much as possible" on there end isn't working at all. The fact that they created the platform for which you release it on force you to use it then say we want you guys to moderate it is a joke. Anyway look I understand what's happening isn't right I really do I'd like to help any way I can to see it rectified I want and appreciate YOUR mods on consoles and want to see it grow you guys kinda made history right with it right? You were the first to do it! But threatening game saves isn't the way I can tell you that. finding a real solution is. Once the smoke settles your art will make it to more people and people like me who support the artists who makes the ones they like. Trust me right now everybody's mad if there are young punks making us look self entitled they are just that punks most of us would gladly hop on a throw you some coffee (or beer) money for your hard work and generosity of offering it for free in the first place.

[jonboy]

In response to post #39510315. #39511175, #39511945, #39512040, #39518785 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Dark0ne, I agree with some of what you said but I must remind you of a couple of things.

1) Console Users did not create this community or enable this site to become what it is today.
2) I am not aware of any contribution Console gaming has provided PC Users other then the dumbing down of game content across the board.
3) There is little chance for revenue to be made by you from console gaming unless you plan on selling us out in the future or that technology drastically changes, which I don't see happening any time soon.

In short I feel PC gamers have every right to be elitists to some extent because we are not just consumers, we contribute. I realize that our contributions are taken for granted by the industry and are only allowed to continue because they see a financial advantage in doing so, but regardless of that you cannot belittle people for wanting to protect this community from vultures who want to rake in as much profit with as little effort as possible.

I would suggest you remember who made your successful site possible and avoid sh!tting where you sleep. In the immortal words of President Obama, You didn't build that by yourself.

boomerizer wrote: MrJoseCuervo:

Nice, coming from someone that stole their name from a tequila brand.

OK so
1) Many PC gamers I'm sure own consoles. Myself included. But you may be partially right. I've only endorsed one thing in the last year.
2) Well, until you invent the console controller that includes 108 keys (not including mouse functions), then "dumbing down" is insanely short sighted, bigoted, and beyond ignorant.
3) Egh, I don't understand the point of that jumble of garbage.

Nobody reserves any right to be elitist in any extent. Not only are you being elitist, but you are being an exlusionist-- as if there are people that SHOULDN'T be allowed to enjoy mods. Simply because of the platform they choose to play on. Console mods have only been available for a month. PC mods have been available for nearly 30 years. I don't want to hear s#*! about console gamers not being contributors. Not everyone that owns a gaming quality PC only owns a PC. I own a PC, a Macbook Pro, an XBox One and a PS4. We also have a 3DS and PSVita (had two of each for a time) At one time we also had a WiiU in the house.

So, for you, I would not recommend shitting on gamers. You know. People that aren't elitist. People that don't choose sides in platforms because each has their advantage.

You know why I have consoles? Because I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my PC can run it. Or having to download multiple third party programs to get something to work.

Y'know, even on PC I play Skyrim and Fallout 4 with an Afterglow wired Xbox One controller. It's not "dumbed down", its streamlined. Dumbed down is what SOE did to Star Wars Galaxies in 2007. Dumbed down is what Ion Storm did to Deus Ex: Invisible War (yes, to make it more accessible to console gamers because CONSOLE GAMING IS A HUGE MARKET).

Whether you like it or not (and I know you don't), but consoles are a huge part of gaming. Video games would not be anywhere near as big as they are today without the Nintento Entertainment System. Which, y'know, was a console. In case you forgot. Mario, video gamings biggest mascot...from a console game. Master Chief, y'know from Halo. Another video game juggernaut... console. You don't have to like it...

But you should learn to respect it.

vram1974 wrote: > In short I feel PC gamers have every right to be elitists

Agreed with everything you wrote.

arenthefox wrote: @MrJoseCuervo: PC gamers who have contributed to the community by creating mods and content can be elitists to a tolerable amount. However, a good part of the group Dark0ne is talking about, the obnoxious elitists, have likely done nothing of the sort, and instead just play games and use mods without giving back, and talk s#*! about console gamers for no other reason than that they don't use the same platform.

Also, just because PC gamers created the modding community, doesn't mean we should shun, exclude, or treat console owners like second-class gamers; they like video games, and they want to use and maybe make some cool mods just like us. They probably play a lot of the same games aside from Bethesda titles, too. Acting like a snob just because you own the platform modding started on does nothing but deepen the divide in the gaming community.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I am not suggesting anything other than protecting what we have built here.

I am not saying we need to shun anyone. All I am saying is that we are the ones making the content, not them. And rolling over and letting the larger forces at play here destroy everything is not something that should be allowed to happen. Change is fine, inclusion is wonderful. Letting a horde of locusts come in and destroy OUR community of content creators and those that support them is not acceptable.

Yes, PC gamers are superior and if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that then there is nothing further to talk about.

A couple itsy-bitsy points...

1) No they didn't, but they _could_ expand it, and should not be excluded due to their....handicap :) And who knows, maybe some of them are converted to PC when they see what we can enjoy.

2) It should be noted that profits from console sales allow production budgets to be larger, leading to a (theoretically) better/bigger game.

3) Not sure what you are saying on this one, but if your point is that only PC sales make them money....pretty sure that is not true.

I too feel like an elitist as a PC gamer, especially due to mods. I also don't appreciate the consolitis/bad porting that infects too many games. However I do want to see mods become successful on consoles. It will expand our hobby to a vast audience, which is why it is so painful to see it done so badly by Bethesda.

[alithiele]

I am not sure where the argument is here. Authors supply a product that enriches your experience. The user acknowledges this when downloading. In return (consider it payment if you like) the author sets certain conditions of use. It is a very small payment for what is given and I simply cannot see where there should be any contention. Ownership is ownership, respect the people who bother to create.

 

I rarely post here, I am not a mod author. I simply appreciate the fact that some people share there work with me. Honestly, prior to being told of Skyrim mods I hated the game, and would never play it in its vanilla incarnation. This place and the people who upload to it are the ones that gave me 400 odd hours of enjoyment on Skyrim. Thank you for that!

[Kalell]

In response to post #39531170.

GodvWar wrote: Hello guys and gals I jumped straight over here once a message from one of your modders here popped up on my TV screen. Now where to start, I am a gamer both console and PC but the former is where it all started as PC's weren't available to me nor capable at the time. What's going on here is disturbing but so was the message I received on my screen today. I'm not familiar with what's going on as a whole but believe after I'm done with this message I will look deep in to it. He mentioned us console gamers feeling entitled and whiny and how you guys could destroy our save games instantly or over time (this info was already known to me). Also he mentioned his reasoning of your mods being stolen and we shouldn't support it I will say I 100% DO NOT support the stealing of any of your hard work as I am extremely grateful you guys have decided to support consoles and in turn planed to support you. I also don't support corrupting save games of people who have no control over the situation especially the ones that have no idea or awareness of the situation. He said not to download stolen mods, you realize a lot of these guys have no way of knowing if they stole it or not or how to even find out right? Throw in some awareness with the issue point them in the right direction and Maybe with the combined force and voices it'll put enough pressure on Bethesda to a address the situation. Cause let's face it the "we want to stay out of it as much as possible" on there end isn't working at all. The fact that they created the platform for which you release it on force you to use it then say we want you guys to moderate it is a joke. Anyway look I understand what's happening isn't right I really do I'd like to help any way I can to see it rectified I want and appreciate YOUR mods on consoles and want to see it grow you guys kinda made history right with it right? You were the first to do it! But threatening game saves isn't the way I can tell you that. finding a real solution is. Once the smoke settles your art will make it to more people and people like me who support the artists who makes the ones they like. Trust me right now everybody's mad if there are young punks making us look self entitled they are just that punks most of us would gladly hop on a throw you some coffee (or beer) money for your hard work and generosity of offering it for free in the first place.

I think most mod authors wouldn't want to mess up console players games (though a few might). A simple message saying that the mod was stolen and to please report it would likely be enough. There are other things that could be done (instant death upon loading into the game with the mod installed), but I don't see any reason to ruin people's save games. That would just be mean.

[Takashiro]

In response to post #39510315. #39511175, #39511945, #39512040, #39518785, #39531445 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Dark0ne, I agree with some of what you said but I must remind you of a couple of things.

1) Console Users did not create this community or enable this site to become what it is today.
2) I am not aware of any contribution Console gaming has provided PC Users other then the dumbing down of game content across the board.
3) There is little chance for revenue to be made by you from console gaming unless you plan on selling us out in the future or that technology drastically changes, which I don't see happening any time soon.

In short I feel PC gamers have every right to be elitists to some extent because we are not just consumers, we contribute. I realize that our contributions are taken for granted by the industry and are only allowed to continue because they see a financial advantage in doing so, but regardless of that you cannot belittle people for wanting to protect this community from vultures who want to rake in as much profit with as little effort as possible.

I would suggest you remember who made your successful site possible and avoid sh!tting where you sleep. In the immortal words of President Obama, You didn't build that by yourself.

boomerizer wrote: MrJoseCuervo:

Nice, coming from someone that stole their name from a tequila brand.

OK so
1) Many PC gamers I'm sure own consoles. Myself included. But you may be partially right. I've only endorsed one thing in the last year.
2) Well, until you invent the console controller that includes 108 keys (not including mouse functions), then "dumbing down" is insanely short sighted, bigoted, and beyond ignorant.
3) Egh, I don't understand the point of that jumble of garbage.

Nobody reserves any right to be elitist in any extent. Not only are you being elitist, but you are being an exlusionist-- as if there are people that SHOULDN'T be allowed to enjoy mods. Simply because of the platform they choose to play on. Console mods have only been available for a month. PC mods have been available for nearly 30 years. I don't want to hear s#*! about console gamers not being contributors. Not everyone that owns a gaming quality PC only owns a PC. I own a PC, a Macbook Pro, an XBox One and a PS4. We also have a 3DS and PSVita (had two of each for a time) At one time we also had a WiiU in the house.

So, for you, I would not recommend shitting on gamers. You know. People that aren't elitist. People that don't choose sides in platforms because each has their advantage.

You know why I have consoles? Because I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my PC can run it. Or having to download multiple third party programs to get something to work.

Y'know, even on PC I play Skyrim and Fallout 4 with an Afterglow wired Xbox One controller. It's not "dumbed down", its streamlined. Dumbed down is what SOE did to Star Wars Galaxies in 2007. Dumbed down is what Ion Storm did to Deus Ex: Invisible War (yes, to make it more accessible to console gamers because CONSOLE GAMING IS A HUGE MARKET).

Whether you like it or not (and I know you don't), but consoles are a huge part of gaming. Video games would not be anywhere near as big as they are today without the Nintento Entertainment System. Which, y'know, was a console. In case you forgot. Mario, video gamings biggest mascot...from a console game. Master Chief, y'know from Halo. Another video game juggernaut... console. You don't have to like it...

But you should learn to respect it.

vram1974 wrote: > In short I feel PC gamers have every right to be elitists

Agreed with everything you wrote.

arenthefox wrote: @MrJoseCuervo: PC gamers who have contributed to the community by creating mods and content can be elitists to a tolerable amount. However, a good part of the group Dark0ne is talking about, the obnoxious elitists, have likely done nothing of the sort, and instead just play games and use mods without giving back, and talk s#*! about console gamers for no other reason than that they don't use the same platform.

Also, just because PC gamers created the modding community, doesn't mean we should shun, exclude, or treat console owners like second-class gamers; they like video games, and they want to use and maybe make some cool mods just like us. They probably play a lot of the same games aside from Bethesda titles, too. Acting like a snob just because you own the platform modding started on does nothing but deepen the divide in the gaming community.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I am not suggesting anything other than protecting what we have built here.

I am not saying we need to shun anyone. All I am saying is that we are the ones making the content, not them. And rolling over and letting the larger forces at play here destroy everything is not something that should be allowed to happen. Change is fine, inclusion is wonderful. Letting a horde of locusts come in and destroy OUR community of content creators and those that support them is not acceptable.

Yes, PC gamers are superior and if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that then there is nothing further to talk about.

jonboy wrote: A couple itsy-bitsy points...

1) No they didn't, but they _could_ expand it, and should not be excluded due to their....handicap :) And who knows, maybe some of them are converted to PC when they see what we can enjoy.

2) It should be noted that profits from console sales allow production budgets to be larger, leading to a (theoretically) better/bigger game.

3) Not sure what you are saying on this one, but if your point is that only PC sales make them money....pretty sure that is not true.

I too feel like an elitist as a PC gamer, especially due to mods. I also don't appreciate the consolitis/bad porting that infects too many games. However I do want to see mods become successful on consoles. It will expand our hobby to a vast audience, which is why it is so painful to see it done so badly by Bethesda.

Wow you kinda missed the point, that type of toxic attitude is not what we need and only servers to make things worse. It's sad how people can feel superior but what piece of plastic they play on,i'm more than sure there are modders who play on console as well so to say they are not a part of this community is false.

But given what you said it would be pointless for me to go on, i honestly don't know how things got this bad but wow it's a bad time to be a part of this "community".