On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[ravernware]

In response to post #39567530.

Sackroad wrote: I'd like to start off by saying that I play Fallout 4 on the PS4. I'm a console user. But I've also played Skyrim and FONV on PC and have used mods. And all I'd really like to say is I have the upmost respect for the modmakers out there. They throw their creative talents into their work and produce excellent DLC-quality content. I've seen so many high quality mods and I've enjoyed them. For modmakers to create these and put them out there, for free even, for other people to enjoy.. It truly is a wonderful thing.

That's why this situation with bethesda.net has me worried and disappointed. My PC isn't the best for gaming, which is why I got the PS4 to begin with. When I heard that Fallout 4 would eventually get mods on consoles, I got excited. I had thought I would just have to go with whatever extra content Bethesda produced, which isn't bad but after having used mods in other games, is a step down. But then with the mod thefts, and people getting angry at consoles, it seemed like mods on console would dry up before I got the chance to use them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to cry about that. I understand wholeheartedly why mod creators are upset. This is their hard work being stolen, and often they're being openly taunted on top of that. It's horrible, and it makes me mad. All I ask is that you keep in mind that not all of us console users are like this. Some of us know the hard work that all of you put into your mods. Some of us greatly respect it, and all we want is the chance to enjoy your hard work LEGITIMATELY. Some of us refuse to download a stolen mod. I for one refuse. I won't put my enjoyment ahead of someone else's efforts.

So.. try to remember. There are those of us on console who support you mod makers out there. Your efforts aren't in vain. Please give us the chance to show that we will only support LEGIT mods. You may be pleasantly surprised. Thank you for your time.

well said.. imo
Nuff said? I think we all get the point. Dark0ne has poked the nest, as he should have. The bees are buzzing. Buzz little bees buzz. Busy busy little bees.

[madwolf2006]

imho i add one more permission

i am looking for someone to port my mod but i want to choose who gets to port my mods

 

imho Bethesda need to add options when you upload a file to Bethesda.net to mark it a private so the only one that can see it is you and add a option private teem you and other teem members

 

imho they need to hide any files that get reported 6 times or more as stolen and prevent the up loader from deleting any files so they can investigate the claim and if the claim is true the the file is deleted or permanently set to hidden but if the claim is false then the file is unhidden

Edited June 20, 2016 by madwolf2006

[Bakgrind]

In response to post #39560020. #39562215 is also a reply to the same post.

frogsot wrote: Maybe you can convince beth to make your site the official modding site for fallout 4 and skyrim? Unless off course they plan to bring back paid mods and would have to cut you in, or mostly you would refuse paid mods all together and they would go back to beth.net\

Lets face it. They plan on bringing paid mods to consoles. Why else would they put so much effort into this? Steam knows better now after what happened. Bethesda might not of learned its lesson. Console players wont protest paid mods since they never had them before now. Every game now has micro transactions, this is there way of making a lot more.

Tantalus010 wrote: Making the Nexus "official" would require a lot of legalese and would essentially end up with Bethesda owning the Nexus. I don't want that. As you said, they're in it to make money - why would they allow that money to go to the Nexus if they didn't own it? Besides, Robin built this site from nothing, and miraculously, he doesn't want to make money off of it. Bethesda deserves to use it no more than they deserve to make money off of other peoples' mods.

Pardon my intrusion, but isn't that exactly what Valve was trying to do earlier and Bethesda was allowing them to not only be a separate entity so to speak,but to be the official dlc site whilst letting them get 30% of the cut to boot? It's all rather hypocritical sounding on their part. Anyway, I just wanted to say that this site and the modders that contribute to it have been a godsend to us gamers over the years and I hope we enjoy many more to come!

[phantompally76]

In response to post #39567530. #39569960 is also a reply to the same post.

Sackroad wrote: I'd like to start off by saying that I play Fallout 4 on the PS4. I'm a console user. But I've also played Skyrim and FONV on PC and have used mods. And all I'd really like to say is I have the upmost respect for the modmakers out there. They throw their creative talents into their work and produce excellent DLC-quality content. I've seen so many high quality mods and I've enjoyed them. For modmakers to create these and put them out there, for free even, for other people to enjoy.. It truly is a wonderful thing.

That's why this situation with bethesda.net has me worried and disappointed. My PC isn't the best for gaming, which is why I got the PS4 to begin with. When I heard that Fallout 4 would eventually get mods on consoles, I got excited. I had thought I would just have to go with whatever extra content Bethesda produced, which isn't bad but after having used mods in other games, is a step down. But then with the mod thefts, and people getting angry at consoles, it seemed like mods on console would dry up before I got the chance to use them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to cry about that. I understand wholeheartedly why mod creators are upset. This is their hard work being stolen, and often they're being openly taunted on top of that. It's horrible, and it makes me mad. All I ask is that you keep in mind that not all of us console users are like this. Some of us know the hard work that all of you put into your mods. Some of us greatly respect it, and all we want is the chance to enjoy your hard work LEGITIMATELY. Some of us refuse to download a stolen mod. I for one refuse. I won't put my enjoyment ahead of someone else's efforts.

So.. try to remember. There are those of us on console who support you mod makers out there. Your efforts aren't in vain. Please give us the chance to show that we will only support LEGIT mods. You may be pleasantly surprised. Thank you for your time.

ravernware wrote: well said.. imo
Nuff said? I think we all get the point. Dark0ne has poked the nest, as he should have. The bees are buzzing. Buzz little bees buzz. Busy busy little bees.

Yep, and those bees are going to end up stinging this community to death.

[ashismyname]

its very sad that it has gotten to this point :/ i remember watching the creation kit/bethesdanet video thinking that it was silly to try to make a site when we already have the nexus. never thought it would get this bad though

[kevindad1]

I tweeted your Bethesda.net post to Bethesda on Twitter.

[RealmEleven]

In response to post #39485330. #39488480, #39488735, #39490310, #39491875, #39495320, #39496320, #39497760, #39499120, #39503090, #39507295, #39520235, #39556755 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I urge modders to keep their console brothers in mind when they make mods. Make sure your mods are in good working order and safe for them to use. We don't want any consoles getting damaged due to poor modding.

alanlwilcox wrote: How can a PC modder EVER make a mod safe for console gaming? There are no tools for a console game as said in an earlier post. Consoles are a new world that only Bethesda may know enough about to mod for them. I would think that consoles would be at great risk and will blame these modders for problems caused by pirated mods.

A_name wrote: There are 0 tools for a modder to troubleshoot on a console. And frankly asking a modder to buy 2 consoles just to test his mods is ridiculous anyway.

Maybe we should encourage the thieves or pirates to do the testing?
I am pretty damn sure a handful of modders would be glad to outsource this to them.
If they ask first of course.

chinagreenelvis wrote: AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference. Console mod problems will come from the the same source as PC mod problems: load order. It's not like you can write a mod that will physically destroy a console.

CrazyIvan12 wrote: ...and the troll/asshole, emboldened by this statement, set out to create a mod designed to do just that.

But in all seriousness, the biggest problem would be troubleshooting. People (including me) don't use consoles ever, and as a result, they have no way to bug test. I personally think, if the modder is the "won't upload to bethsda.net" type, if they can work something out with a console user to troubleshoot the mod, that they should think about uploading to bethesda

arn13 wrote: It's already quite difficult enough making sure your mod even works on the PC. My "Populated Wasteland" mod worked perfectly fine for me, but a lot of users reported problems on their end and I simply had no idea what could be causing it. If I'm not experiencing the same problems, how else can I troubleshoot it?

Now imagine if I had to do that for consoles too. That's just too much of a headache to even bother with.

UlanX wrote: I play this on PC, my husband on PS4 so I personally don't have an issue with mods for consoles. I understand very well why some people prefer consoles and there are games I prefer to play (or can only play on console). I don't go in for the whole "PC Master Race" nonsense. If I want to play a Final Fantasy game on Playstation, I damn well will. I won't suddenly be overcome with shame because "oh my god, a console!". That said I love my PC to bits and play several single player and MMO's with it. These divisions are artificial and created out of a need to be part of an "in-group".

That said, I can see how modding for consoles may be a bit more time consuming, beyond the need as some have pointed out, to own both the console and a PC to create the mods. I can currently make a mod on PC and test it straight away without having to faff around transferring it to console, testing it, switching back to PC to troubleshoot etc

jguerr73 wrote: yes you can

WiIIPWN4KFC wrote: @chinagreenelvis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di6Te-plqlY

So yeah, you're kind of wrong about not being able to destroy consoles with mods.

rypofalem wrote: You guys are missing MrJoseCuervo's sarcasm. He is halfheartedly suggesting that modders put malicious code into their mod that does nothing for PC users but does something undesirable for consoles.

This way, if the mod was stolen and put on the console site, everyone who used the illegal copy would have something bad happen. (be it a simple game crash or perhaps something more serious like bricking the console)

This, of course, is a terrible idea because(among other reasons) it punishes even innocent people who don't realize it's a pirated copy.

boomerizer wrote: @rypofalem; you're absolutely right within that last sentence.

"This, of course, is a terrible idea because(among other reasons) it punishes even innocent people who don't realize it's a pirated copy. "

I've been using mods for years, and still don't know more than a couple modders by name. In fact the only one I can name off the top of my head is Azar due to all the hair mods I've used for Skyrim-- and downloaded on the xbox now. Although I'll be honest; I can't even verify that Azar was the uploader of the console version. What I can verify, is that I don't care one way or the other-- Azar was in the title which was credit enough for me.

TritonRM wrote: http://i.imgur.com/svNKG7i.jpg You sure that bricking video wasn't fake?

WiIIPWN4KFC wrote: @TritonRM SHHHHH!!!! You're spoiling the fun!

There is no such thing as "safe" when the platform is defective to begin with. And where do we start? x86 architecture? Windows? The game itself? All platform levels have issues that are detrimental to their intended use (i.e bugs) because nobody runs testbeds or makes any sincere/authentic attempts to conduct testing any more.

Asking modders, whose efforts are not funded, to invest capital in quality-control measures, which are no longer implemented by commercial entities, is a bit beyond the pale, don't you think?

I think @A_name says it best:
"There are 0 tools for a modder to troubleshoot on a console. And frankly asking a modder to buy 2 consoles just to test his mods is ridiculous anyway."

I'm inclined to add:
Blaming modders for defects in the hardware or, worse still, defects in the game client is just biting the hand that feeds you and I'd strongly advise against it, lest the charity offered by modders be withdrawn.

[DoctaSax]

I finally understand where you're coming from. Your view of mods is the Traditional View. The view that says modding if open and free to everyone. In this view there really isn't any theft of mods, unless someone claims ownership over a mod they did not create. The open sharing of mods was key. You are correct in assuming that school of thought is largely gone. The Modern View for modding is that Mod Authors have sole ownership rights over their intellectual property (their mods), and therefore, their mods should not be redistributed by anyone without their express permission. This is clearly the stance of the Nexus, and the stance of even Bethesda itself.

I think the 'traditional view' stipulates that modding should be open and free to everyone because it's beneficial to modding on the whole, to the scene. Not that it's a free-for-all, but that it's preferable for modders to share their work with other modders to improve, patch, bugfix or take in a different direction. Because sharing encourages things getting created.

 

The 'modern' view is very much slanted in favor of a modder's copyright, yes, we hear that we have it all the time nowadays, but we had it all along. Copyright just is. As far as I can tell, there is no view here other than that the rules should be enforced, and they of course default to "you're not allowed to use my stuff". As a modding philosophy, it's decidedly underwhelming compared to the traditional one: the same copyright as ever, but without encouraging sharing. It lacks vision, imo.

[ravernware]

In response to post #39567530. #39569960, #39571210 are all replies on the same post.

Sackroad wrote: I'd like to start off by saying that I play Fallout 4 on the PS4. I'm a console user. But I've also played Skyrim and FONV on PC and have used mods. And all I'd really like to say is I have the upmost respect for the modmakers out there. They throw their creative talents into their work and produce excellent DLC-quality content. I've seen so many high quality mods and I've enjoyed them. For modmakers to create these and put them out there, for free even, for other people to enjoy.. It truly is a wonderful thing.

That's why this situation with bethesda.net has me worried and disappointed. My PC isn't the best for gaming, which is why I got the PS4 to begin with. When I heard that Fallout 4 would eventually get mods on consoles, I got excited. I had thought I would just have to go with whatever extra content Bethesda produced, which isn't bad but after having used mods in other games, is a step down. But then with the mod thefts, and people getting angry at consoles, it seemed like mods on console would dry up before I got the chance to use them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to cry about that. I understand wholeheartedly why mod creators are upset. This is their hard work being stolen, and often they're being openly taunted on top of that. It's horrible, and it makes me mad. All I ask is that you keep in mind that not all of us console users are like this. Some of us know the hard work that all of you put into your mods. Some of us greatly respect it, and all we want is the chance to enjoy your hard work LEGITIMATELY. Some of us refuse to download a stolen mod. I for one refuse. I won't put my enjoyment ahead of someone else's efforts.

So.. try to remember. There are those of us on console who support you mod makers out there. Your efforts aren't in vain. Please give us the chance to show that we will only support LEGIT mods. You may be pleasantly surprised. Thank you for your time.

ravernware wrote: well said.. imo
Nuff said? I think we all get the point. Dark0ne has poked the nest, as he should have. The bees are buzzing. Buzz little bees buzz. Busy busy little bees.

phantompally76 wrote: Yep, and those bees are going to end up stinging this community to death.

how so? please enlighten us.

[ravernware]

why the us vs them? The issue is about pirating of content to Bethesda.net for console mods, and Bethesda.net either not being sufficiently prepared or failing a fudiciary responsibility to protect the mod authors rights under said license agreement. I have no issue what ever with console users. Why should I? The Zenimax suits who have no clue as to game dev or modding, and better get that 3am wake up call fast.

PC or console.. come on guys/ladies.. really?