Nexus Mod Manager focus group needs more help

Olivir2019 · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39920060.

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Aren't you just uploading a text file? As I understand this, NMM then just downloads the mods for you. Would be also pretty silly doing this with uploading.

EpiceneBlue · June 29, 2016

Not at all to belittle a really awesome idea -- seriously, I love the whole concept -- but please, please, please could we focus on bug fixing the existing model first before throwing a whole kitchen sink on top of it?

The latest version I'm using won't even check for updated versions for half the mods I've put into it on a freshly modded game. (Especially if you download via manual link and then drag it into NMM to install as I usually do to prevent corrupted downloads using the NMM buttons.) No file name changes, nothing. Everything worked just fine in this regard a few versions of NMM back. And it's not just Fallout 4, it's doing it with Skyrim as well, which is extremely frustrating.

More times than I can count now it does not fully uninstall large mods (or even some small mods), making a mess - especially with leaving abandoned textures/meshes. Large mods get hung up sometimes and fail to install or uninstall -- locking up NMM and/or CTD in the midst, or like in the case of something like Legacy, take an HOUR to install where it only takes 10 minutes on MO. And you aren't even sure if it's locked up, or it is just taking forever and ever.

This is going to be a special kind of hell, the extremely long install times, with this whole idea of downloading and installing a whole mod list.

And yes, yes, yes, we need installation out of the data folder, like MO. I don't want or need all the virtual stuff. I want NMM but with the logic of MO not throwing everything into the data folder and making a mess if something goes wrong. Which, right now, with the latest two/three versions, has been a LOT, especially with the installing/uninstalling issues.

I love NMM. I refuse to give it up for MO even after learning about MO and using it for three months. I switched back because NMM is simpler, easier to work with, doesn't have some of the restrictions and complications of modding with MO. NMM is an AMAZING work and I give incredibly high praise to all involved. But you don't build a mansion on top of a shaky foundation. It's not good architecture and it's not good software engineering. We all want to rush ahead to the next amazing level, but please let's fix NMM as it is before skipping to god mode.

And as far as that goes, why not actually just make a separate tool altogether for this whole mod load order downloading and sharing thing with the ability to tie it into NMM? Instead of lumping all together and creating a big monster to deal with in bug fixing and updates in the future? I certainly would prefer that.

Reading through these comments, it seems overwhelmingly that other NMM users feel the same. Yes, these ideas are cool and fun futuristic, but please could we have a not borked version of NMM working before we launch into the next level of crazy?

Edited June 29, 2016 by GameDuchess

DuskDweller · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39921280.

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Quote
GameDuchess wrote: Not at all to belittle a really awesome idea -- seriously, I love the whole concept -- but please, please, please could we focus on bug fixing the existing model first before throwing a whole kitchen sink on top of it?

The latest version I'm using won't even check for updated versions for half the mods I've put into it on a freshly modded game. (Especially if you download via manual link and then drag it into NMM to install as I usually do to prevent corrupted downloads using the NMM buttons.) No file name changes, nothing. Everything worked just fine in this regard a few versions of NMM back. And it's not just Fallout 4, it's doing it with Skyrim as well, which is extremely frustrating.

More times than I can count now it does not fully uninstall large mods (or even some small mods), making a mess - especially with leaving abandoned textures/meshes. Large mods get hung up sometimes and fail to install or uninstall -- locking up NMM and/or CTD in the midst, or like in the case of something like Legacy, take an HOUR to install where it only takes 10 minutes on MO. And you aren't even sure if it's locked up, or it is just taking forever and ever.

This is going to be a special kind of hell, the extremely long install times, with this whole idea of downloading and installing a whole mod list.

And yes, yes, yes, we need installation out of the data folder, like MO. I don't want or need all the virtual stuff. I want NMM but with the logic of MO not throwing everything into the data folder and making a mess if something goes wrong. Which, right now, with the latest two/three versions, has been a LOT, especially with the installing/uninstalling issues.

I love NMM. I refuse to give it up for MO even after learning about MO and using it for three months. I switched back because NMM is simpler, easier to work with, doesn't have some of the restrictions and complications of modding with MO. NMM is an AMAZING work and I give incredibly high praise to all involved. But you don't build a mansion on top of a shaky foundation. It's not good architecture and it's not good software engineering. We all want to rush ahead to the next amazing level, but please let's fix NMM as it is before skipping to god mode.

And as far as that goes, why not actually just make a separate tool altogether for this whole mod load order downloading and sharing thing with the ability to tie it into NMM? Instead of lumping all together and creating a big monster to deal with in bug fixing and updates in the future? I certainly would prefer that.

Reading through these comments, it seems overwhelmingly that other NMM users feel the same. Yes, these ideas are cool and fun futuristic, but please could we have a not borked version of NMM working before we launch into the next level of crazy?

All the issues you're experiencing in current 0.61.x builds are all fixed in the next 0.62 release.

DuskDweller · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39920060. #39920765 is also a reply to the same post.

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Yes what you're sharing is a "config" file that will tell NMM what to download (from the Nexus), activate and how to do it.

DuskDweller · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39908555.

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Yes, it will have its own section ;)

starfis · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39920060. #39920765, #39921990 are all replies on the same post.

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So it will also know the order in which the mods were installed and what files were chosen to be overwritten and which don't? Sounds cool, but it's also somehow leading me to think a lot of problems with correct version of the mod is going to happen. For example when the version 2.3c of mod A which is compatible with version 1.7 of mod B is no longer available. How this is going to be addressed? Edited June 29, 2016 by starfis

lemonsquare · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39909305. #39910355, #39912505, #39913875, #39914805, #39915370, #39919085 are all replies on the same post.

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ff7legend wrote: I seriously hope this upcoming update won't be a radical one like the disastrous 0.60 update was. A lot of modders, including the SOT (Sands of Time) Team, lost their entire modded Skyrim setup due to the aforementioned radical update. I really don't want to have to play Russian Roulette with future NMM updates.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: That's kind of the entire point of asking for people to help us bug test before major releases, guys.

Quote
drscott11 wrote: I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them. Are they nice tech achievements, yes, but not really necessary imo.

I'd really like to see more QoL features like a better UI, the ability to "send esp to top/bottom" of the mod list or to a specific number/place in the load order. How about fixing the horrid column resizing in the mod activation list or improving the abysmal performance of the "remove mod from all profiles" as it takes forever even on an i7 w/SSD. I could go on but I'm sure others will agree.

I'd like to see more focus on improving the core product as opposed to adding unneeded features.

Quote
janishewski wrote: I couldn't disagree more. These features are, I think, fundamental to make modding easier which should be the main goal of NMM in the first place. Exchanging mod setups with people that have already worked out the kinks and have a stable game going is a fantastic feature that will bring more people into modding. I see, almost daily, stories around the internet about how people want to mod their games, but don't know where to start, and let's be honest, this is a good community, but as I know from when I started years ago, it is not the most friendly towards people new to it and new to modding. Just because a feature may not be important to you, does not mean it won't be important to modding. There is no reason for a mod manager of any kind to exist if the point isn't to make modding games easier. If you want to wait and see how the next release pans out before upgrading, I see no problem. The current version of NMM isn't working properly in many ways anyway.

Quote
sgtmcbiscuits wrote: @drscott11
It sounds like you know a fair bit about modding your game. That's great! The problem is, the vast majority of people don't. This kind of stuff isn't there for the people that know a lot about modding, it's there for those who want it to be simple and easy. There are tons of people who want to get into modding their games, but for them, it's too intimidating to start. And who can blame them for feeling that way? With nearly 50K mods uploaded to the Skyrim Nexus, and 12K on Fallout 4, that's a lot to take in for someone new. Adding shareable profiles is mostly for those new people. It helps them get a grasp on how modding works, without throwing too much at them. That way, the modding community expands it's borders; and the more people in the community the better! After all, the more people that are here, the more people will be making great new mods, which means great news for you!

Just because this update won't accomplish things for you directly doesn't mean that it won't be beneficial to everyone in the long run

Quote
arkayn71 wrote: What I want is the capability of upgrading mods back again.

Currently all we can do is install the new version and then uninstall the old version, not intuitive at all.

Quote
midtek wrote: Well, so as long as update doesn't cause malfunction, there's no problem about adding new features right? Even if some find it has zero use for them. OP and drscott11 are talking about different things.

"I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them."

What an absolutely puzzling statement. The upcoming features are extremely, extremely useful, objectively speaking.

ff7legend · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39909305. #39910355, #39912505, #39913875, #39914805, #39915370, #39919085, #39928575 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
ff7legend wrote: I seriously hope this upcoming update won't be a radical one like the disastrous 0.60 update was. A lot of modders, including the SOT (Sands of Time) Team, lost their entire modded Skyrim setup due to the aforementioned radical update. I really don't want to have to play Russian Roulette with future NMM updates.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: That's kind of the entire point of asking for people to help us bug test before major releases, guys.

Quote
drscott11 wrote: I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them. Are they nice tech achievements, yes, but not really necessary imo.

I'd really like to see more QoL features like a better UI, the ability to "send esp to top/bottom" of the mod list or to a specific number/place in the load order. How about fixing the horrid column resizing in the mod activation list or improving the abysmal performance of the "remove mod from all profiles" as it takes forever even on an i7 w/SSD. I could go on but I'm sure others will agree.

I'd like to see more focus on improving the core product as opposed to adding unneeded features.

Quote
janishewski wrote: I couldn't disagree more. These features are, I think, fundamental to make modding easier which should be the main goal of NMM in the first place. Exchanging mod setups with people that have already worked out the kinks and have a stable game going is a fantastic feature that will bring more people into modding. I see, almost daily, stories around the internet about how people want to mod their games, but don't know where to start, and let's be honest, this is a good community, but as I know from when I started years ago, it is not the most friendly towards people new to it and new to modding. Just because a feature may not be important to you, does not mean it won't be important to modding. There is no reason for a mod manager of any kind to exist if the point isn't to make modding games easier. If you want to wait and see how the next release pans out before upgrading, I see no problem. The current version of NMM isn't working properly in many ways anyway.

Quote
sgtmcbiscuits wrote: @drscott11
It sounds like you know a fair bit about modding your game. That's great! The problem is, the vast majority of people don't. This kind of stuff isn't there for the people that know a lot about modding, it's there for those who want it to be simple and easy. There are tons of people who want to get into modding their games, but for them, it's too intimidating to start. And who can blame them for feeling that way? With nearly 50K mods uploaded to the Skyrim Nexus, and 12K on Fallout 4, that's a lot to take in for someone new. Adding shareable profiles is mostly for those new people. It helps them get a grasp on how modding works, without throwing too much at them. That way, the modding community expands it's borders; and the more people in the community the better! After all, the more people that are here, the more people will be making great new mods, which means great news for you!

Just because this update won't accomplish things for you directly doesn't mean that it won't be beneficial to everyone in the long run

Quote
arkayn71 wrote: What I want is the capability of upgrading mods back again.

Currently all we can do is install the new version and then uninstall the old version, not intuitive at all.

Quote
midtek wrote: Well, so as long as update doesn't cause malfunction, there's no problem about adding new features right? Even if some find it has zero use for them. OP and drscott11 are talking about different things.

Quote
lemonsquare wrote: "I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them."

What an absolutely puzzling statement. The upcoming features are extremely, extremely useful, objectively speaking.

I, myself, don't use Profiles at all. They're bugged/glitched & the more mods one has installed, the more likely for something to go wrong. Just ask tonycubed (SOT Team member) what can happen when switching profiles with a large mod list like his. The 0.60 update was far too radical & completely destroyed many modders' mod setups/game installs in their entirety. I don't want to have to deal with that risk yet again, hence why I'm posting about not wanting to play Russian Roulette when it comes to updating NMM yet again. Edited June 29, 2016 by ff7legend

prinyo · June 29, 2016

On 6/29/2016 at 3:09 PM, ff7legend said:

In response to post #39909305. #39910355, #39912505, #39913875, #39914805, #39915370, #39919085, #39928575 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
ff7legend wrote: I seriously hope this upcoming update won't be a radical one like the disastrous 0.60 update was. A lot of modders, including the SOT (Sands of Time) Team, lost their entire modded Skyrim setup due to the aforementioned radical update. I really don't want to have to play Russian Roulette with future NMM updates.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: That's kind of the entire point of asking for people to help us bug test before major releases, guys.

Quote
drscott11 wrote: I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them. Are they nice tech achievements, yes, but not really necessary imo.

I'd really like to see more QoL features like a better UI, the ability to "send esp to top/bottom" of the mod list or to a specific number/place in the load order. How about fixing the horrid column resizing in the mod activation list or improving the abysmal performance of the "remove mod from all profiles" as it takes forever even on an i7 w/SSD. I could go on but I'm sure others will agree.

I'd like to see more focus on improving the core product as opposed to adding unneeded features.

Quote
janishewski wrote: I couldn't disagree more. These features are, I think, fundamental to make modding easier which should be the main goal of NMM in the first place. Exchanging mod setups with people that have already worked out the kinks and have a stable game going is a fantastic feature that will bring more people into modding. I see, almost daily, stories around the internet about how people want to mod their games, but don't know where to start, and let's be honest, this is a good community, but as I know from when I started years ago, it is not the most friendly towards people new to it and new to modding. Just because a feature may not be important to you, does not mean it won't be important to modding. There is no reason for a mod manager of any kind to exist if the point isn't to make modding games easier. If you want to wait and see how the next release pans out before upgrading, I see no problem. The current version of NMM isn't working properly in many ways anyway.

Quote
sgtmcbiscuits wrote: @drscott11
It sounds like you know a fair bit about modding your game. That's great! The problem is, the vast majority of people don't. This kind of stuff isn't there for the people that know a lot about modding, it's there for those who want it to be simple and easy. There are tons of people who want to get into modding their games, but for them, it's too intimidating to start. And who can blame them for feeling that way? With nearly 50K mods uploaded to the Skyrim Nexus, and 12K on Fallout 4, that's a lot to take in for someone new. Adding shareable profiles is mostly for those new people. It helps them get a grasp on how modding works, without throwing too much at them. That way, the modding community expands it's borders; and the more people in the community the better! After all, the more people that are here, the more people will be making great new mods, which means great news for you!

Just because this update won't accomplish things for you directly doesn't mean that it won't be beneficial to everyone in the long run

Quote
arkayn71 wrote: What I want is the capability of upgrading mods back again.

Currently all we can do is install the new version and then uninstall the old version, not intuitive at all.

Quote
midtek wrote: Well, so as long as update doesn't cause malfunction, there's no problem about adding new features right? Even if some find it has zero use for them. OP and drscott11 are talking about different things.

Quote
lemonsquare wrote: "I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them."

What an absolutely puzzling statement. The upcoming features are extremely, extremely useful, objectively speaking.
I, myself, don't use Profiles at all. They're bugged/glitched & the more mods one has installed, the more likely for something to go wrong. Just ask tonycubed (SOT Team member) what can happen when switching profiles with a large mod list like his. The 0.60 update was far too radical & completely destroyed many modders' mod setups/game installs in their entirety. I don't want to have to deal with that risk yet again, hence why I'm posting about not wanting to play Russian Roulette when it comes to updating NMM yet again.

They have found the bug that causes profiles to break and mods to migrate between profiles and the other similar problems. Not sure if it is fixed in the current version but it seems it is fixed in the beta.

This was very good news for me :-)

Not sure if they have found the reason NMM sometimes doesn't fully activate or deactivate mods (failing to create or remove all the symlinks for all the mod files).

drscott11 · June 29, 2016

In response to post #39909305. #39910355, #39912505, #39913875, #39914805, #39915370, #39919085, #39928575, #39931090 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
ff7legend wrote: I seriously hope this upcoming update won't be a radical one like the disastrous 0.60 update was. A lot of modders, including the SOT (Sands of Time) Team, lost their entire modded Skyrim setup due to the aforementioned radical update. I really don't want to have to play Russian Roulette with future NMM updates.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: That's kind of the entire point of asking for people to help us bug test before major releases, guys.

Quote
drscott11 wrote: I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them. Are they nice tech achievements, yes, but not really necessary imo.

I'd really like to see more QoL features like a better UI, the ability to "send esp to top/bottom" of the mod list or to a specific number/place in the load order. How about fixing the horrid column resizing in the mod activation list or improving the abysmal performance of the "remove mod from all profiles" as it takes forever even on an i7 w/SSD. I could go on but I'm sure others will agree.

I'd like to see more focus on improving the core product as opposed to adding unneeded features.

Quote
janishewski wrote: I couldn't disagree more. These features are, I think, fundamental to make modding easier which should be the main goal of NMM in the first place. Exchanging mod setups with people that have already worked out the kinks and have a stable game going is a fantastic feature that will bring more people into modding. I see, almost daily, stories around the internet about how people want to mod their games, but don't know where to start, and let's be honest, this is a good community, but as I know from when I started years ago, it is not the most friendly towards people new to it and new to modding. Just because a feature may not be important to you, does not mean it won't be important to modding. There is no reason for a mod manager of any kind to exist if the point isn't to make modding games easier. If you want to wait and see how the next release pans out before upgrading, I see no problem. The current version of NMM isn't working properly in many ways anyway.

Quote
sgtmcbiscuits wrote: @drscott11
It sounds like you know a fair bit about modding your game. That's great! The problem is, the vast majority of people don't. This kind of stuff isn't there for the people that know a lot about modding, it's there for those who want it to be simple and easy. There are tons of people who want to get into modding their games, but for them, it's too intimidating to start. And who can blame them for feeling that way? With nearly 50K mods uploaded to the Skyrim Nexus, and 12K on Fallout 4, that's a lot to take in for someone new. Adding shareable profiles is mostly for those new people. It helps them get a grasp on how modding works, without throwing too much at them. That way, the modding community expands it's borders; and the more people in the community the better! After all, the more people that are here, the more people will be making great new mods, which means great news for you!

Just because this update won't accomplish things for you directly doesn't mean that it won't be beneficial to everyone in the long run

Quote
arkayn71 wrote: What I want is the capability of upgrading mods back again.

Currently all we can do is install the new version and then uninstall the old version, not intuitive at all.

Quote
midtek wrote: Well, so as long as update doesn't cause malfunction, there's no problem about adding new features right? Even if some find it has zero use for them. OP and drscott11 are talking about different things.

Quote
lemonsquare wrote: "I think what he is saying is that do we really need these new features? Honestly I have zero use for them."

What an absolutely puzzling statement. The upcoming features are extremely, extremely useful, objectively speaking.

Quote
ff7legend wrote: I, myself, don't use Profiles at all. They're bugged/glitched & the more mods one has installed, the more likely for something to go wrong. Just ask tonycubed (SOT Team member) what can happen when switching profiles with a large mod list like his. The 0.60 update was far too radical & completely destroyed many modders' mod setups/game installs in their entirety. I don't want to have to deal with that risk yet again, hence why I'm posting about not wanting to play Russian Roulette when it comes to updating NMM yet again.

It all sounds great until you actually try to use the feature and it breaks everything... I obey the KISS rule... With over 200 ESP's in my load order, and with some of my mods being over 1GB each, it takes a life-age for NMM to switch to another profile. I find it far easier and much less buggy to do it manually.... which still takes over 2hrs for a complete reinstall.

Also, NMM does not handle errors well and it's likely that it will freeze or crash while switching which is a waste of time and trashes your install.

Nexus Mod Manager focus group needs more help

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