Skyrim Complaints

[Ghogiel]

 

No one who has played the earlier ES games can honestly say with a straight face that the character development in Skyrim is anything even approaching complex or unique, comparatively to what was available to us before it.

It's more complex and unique than oblivion. :mellow:

[demonocus]

It's more complex and unique than oblivion. :mellow:

not when it comes to character creation

[darkblayd]

It will be better when we start getting perk overhauls, honestly perks can be better than stats but I still kind of agree with you.

 

Removing stats from the game is just very anti-rpg, we could have been using a simple health/magic/stamina system for all rpgs since the old days, but we haven't, and I think there's a good reason for that. It may not have been necessary from the start at all, and it's pretty damn transparent in many games but it's one of the things that encompasses the essence of an rpg as well.

 

We lost acrobatics and athletics, speed and agility would have made very nice replacement stats for those functions while not inherently leveling you up from use.

 

It's definitely not the choice I would have made for the game anyway. They tried too hard to balance things in this iteration and failed at it anyway, from the start it has been up to the player whether or not to break the game and go god mode or not, and that's always been part of the fun. I know some people who play through once legit and then after that just bug/exploit/trololo all over the place for fun on their second play through. No harm in that.

Edited November 19, 2011 by darkblayd

[Karasuman]

I agree with you darkblayd. It just seems to me that the more they continue to remove fundamental attributes and entire skill sets from the games, the less varied character progression will become. I'm almost afraid to see what kind of "streamlining" (neutering) they have in mind for Summerset Isles or Valenwood.

[darkblayd]

I have it on personal speculation that all actions in future elder scrolls games will be carried out via single key activation of the wabbajack stick.

 

I mean, who needs game mechanics when you have a wabbajack right?

[Karasuman]

I have it on personal speculation that all actions in future elder scrolls games will be carried out via single key activation of the wabbajack stick.

 

I mean, who needs game mechanics when you have a wabbajack right?

 

Lol. If Beth stays on the current course, we just might be able to get out the old one-button Atari 2600 joysticks to play the next incantation. Stay tuned...

[Stratomunchkin]

I'll repost what I said in another thread earlier:

 

I think the depth of the factions and their interactions is another major issue; it seems to have been almost totally ignored. Which really is a shame for a game that uses a civil war and the intrigues between noble families as its setting. Even if it doesn't amount to anything, it's the kind of stuff the game should present you with, very frequently. It's not just the Legion, it's endemic to the whole game. I'm still in the middle of the exploring part of my first playthrough, so I really don't mind that much right now, but after all is said and done, this sadly seems to follow the line of great Bethesda sandbox game where you're really ending up not doing all that much in the sandbox.

 

And that's what infuriates me with Bethesda: this sort of... half-assedness. I would understand it if the game engine couldn't handle it. But if the long history of modding BethSoft's games has shown one thing then it's that the engines can handle that sort of stuff, and very well so!

 

It's not just the Legion: your actions should have tangible consequences for the world!

 

NPC comments are fine, but your impact should be greater than that.

 

Thoughts about this issue always bring me back to Oblivion. There was this one side quest where you were asked by a bunch of settlers to help them with two goblin tribes in the region, and if you did and later came back to the settlers, you'd see the changes you affected (twice, I think) in so far that their tents were replaced by farms and farm land and the like.

 

So far, what little I cared for in Skyrim, these changes haven't happened. Sure, I'm the Thane of Falkreath and stuff, but neither can I influence decisions there, nor do the people care. For that matter, something should happen with those dragon skeletons I leave behind. One's right in the town square of Falkreath - and nobody notices or cares.

 

Things don't change. Towns and villages don't change. People don't change. Skyrim is far better than Oblivion in general, but in that regard it seems to be your typical Bethesda game: they built a great sandbox and left it at that.

 

Look at Falkreath and the situation there. The game even tells you that the old Jarl has been replaced against his will, and you immediately realize the new Jarl is a corrupt douchebag whose hold is run by his Aldmeri "advisor". Perfect hook for intrigues and quests with an impact on the actual setting. But do we get that? Nooo.

 

I suppose the gist of my post is that once the first rush of being impressed has worn off (I'm still midway in that since I'm still exploring :biggrin: ) the world appears lifeless and non-reactive. Not necessarily as "bad" as in other Beth games. But certainly not as good as the engine and the scripting allows.

 

Picking up sundawn's point about "realistic populations":

In the smaller settlements it really isn't too bad, like that one small mining village where the miners do their work, sit around the fire in the evening, then go to bed. But once you're in bigger settlements that very basic structure becomes apparent in many cases, because half the people really don't seem to do anything other than stand around and basically walk in a large circle. Conversations between each other there need to be more frequent, as do activities. I'm getting the feeling that in this regard the game always seems to stop short just one step of being really great.

 

Some of the more important NPCs would need more work (the Battleborns and Greymanes, for example; they would need more conversations amongst each other, possibly scenes where they meet in front of the Jarl to discuss/argue things; only problem here would be the voice acting, or rather, the lack thereof).

 

We also need more people on the road, be they refugees or merchnt horse carts with guards and the like. The intro scene shows that horse carts work, so why not implement them in the game? You could even use some of them for mini quests like escorting merchants from one village to another.

 

This game clearly has all the tools and ingredients ready for a superbly immersive experience: just as Oblivion and FO3 had these things. Since we know the depths these games can achieve via the construction kits, I'm left to assume that it isn't a technical issue, but has to be one of writing. And that, quite frankly, is lacklustre, and since it's the third game in a row with that kind of problems, apparently an ongoing issue at Beth.

 

If writing storylines for all these sidequests is a problem, hell, I volunteer to help out! I'm a published writer.

 

I mean, what's the point in creating these elaborate worlds with really intriguing backstories when your hero's actions barely have consequences? I want to see the Battleborns and Greymanes scheme against one another. I want to see them in the Jarl's hall, arguing, discussing, shouting at each other. I want to be able to take down the Thieves' Guild and rid Riften from it's corruption. I want to go to the shrine of Boethia, tell them how deplorable I find them and eradicate the cult from Skyrim. I want to get into the power struggle between the old and new Jarl in Falkreath. As Thane of Falkreath, I want to lead soldiers against the bandit and monster infested holds in that region and have them establish guarded outposts. I want to see the world work, not just read about it in the admittedly great in-game books. I want my character to be privy to things. I want him to matter.

 

I'm sure I'll come up with more points, given some time. And I'm not throwing them around because I don't like the game. Quite the contrary - I love it! But it's infuriating to see what would have been possible and not been done.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Stratomunchkin

[WarKirby3333]

regarding the OP:

 

i disagree with you about the speechcraft/mercantile skill. I feel that those, along with mysticism and athletics, were worthless skills that added nothing to the game, and i'm glad for their removal or consolidation. the speech pie game was awful. I do miss acrobatics though, although it's more that i miss its perks and the ability to jump high. i certaily don't miss grinding to boost it by hopping around everywhere like a madgirl.

 

with regards to simplifying and removing attributes, i also disagree with you. As it was implemented, oblivion's attribute system was a truly horrible mess. It encouraged you picking deliberately useless major skills (because those were the ones that made you level) so that you could grind the skills you actually wanted, to ensure you got the +5 bonus to every stat when you finally did level up. It gave you incentive to avoid levelling up as much as possible, and created the possibility of maxing out all your combat skills at lv1. it was stupid. The new system is a vast improvement, never is a skillpoint wasted. and the perks are still tied to your skills as most of them have a minimum requirement in the appropriate skill.

 

 

I agree with you on bugginess and inconsistent difficulty though. Dragons should be the strongest adversary in the game, but they're very far from it.

[Trey5511]

I'm sure I'll come up with more points, given some time. And I'm not throwing them around because I don't like the game. Quite the contrary - I love it! But it's infuriating to see what would have been possible and not been done.

 

Skyrim is so full of "could have beens".

 

All the guild quests I've done so far could have been so much more interesting by simply allowing the player more choices. Same with most of the quests in the cities. They set up the clan feud in Whiterun, even let you start getting involved, and then....nothing. No more quests, no major effect.

 

It is filled with potential. Its also filled with content, which I am quite happy with. I expect, if they had tried to fulfill all this potential, we'd still be waiting a year or so for the game to come out.

 

They left themselves(or modders, or both) plenty of solid content to work with and release.

 

 

with regards to simplifying and removing attributes, i also disagree with you. As it was implemented, oblivion's attribute system was a truly horrible mess. It encouraged you picking deliberately useless major skills (because those were the ones that made you level) so that you could grind the skills you actually wanted, to ensure you got the +5 bonus to every stat when you finally did level up. It gave you incentive to avoid levelling up as much as possible, and created the possibility of maxing out all your combat skills at lv1. it was stupid. The new system is a vast improvement, never is a skillpoint wasted. and the perks are still tied to your skills as most of them have a minimum requirement in the appropriate skill.

 

The oblivion leveling system allowed for abuse. It worked perfectly fine(as in, simply selecting major skills you would actually be using, and using them) if you didn't gimp your toon by not getting appropriate gear or spells(and enchants/potions) at higher levels, though. If you were someone who really wanted to push their character that hard, yes, it gave incentive to do things like stay at lvl 1(or 2, for quests). For everyone else, it wasn't so bad as you have described here.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Trey5511

[WarKirby3333]

The oblivion leveling system allowed for abuse. It worked perfectly fine(as in, simply selecting major skills you would actually be using, and using them) if you didn't gimp your toon by not getting appropriate gear or spells(and enchants/potions) at higher levels, though. If you were someone who really wanted to push their character that hard, yes, it gave incentive to do things like stay at lvl 1(or 2, for quests). For everyone else, it wasn't so bad as you have described here.

 

i still disagree. a system that can be abused cannot be called perfectly fine. skyrim is better though because although it can still be abused (iron daggers lol) it doesn't force you into constantly abusing it to get the most out of it. you can farm smithing anytime and you're not missing out.

 

a character develoopment system has to be complimentary to the game. Oblivion's was detrimental and forced you to choose between having fun, or playing well.