I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing

[HeyYou]

 

The national guard would only increase the violence. The community leaders there ARE the gangs....

 

Chicago would end up looking a lot like fallujah.

 

Not to mention it would be Political Suicide for any politician that authorized it.......

The gangs are not the community leaders. They don't care about the community other than what they can take from it. These are not radicalized idealist. They are people fighting other people such as themselves for the spoils they can take from a public that can't defend against them. You really don't know what's going on up there do you. It is not the public that is armed. It is the gangs that will kill you for speaking out, because they know that they and the police are to only one's armed. They also know that they outgun the police in manpower and firepower.

 

I would care less what a politician thought, since they want to look good by doing as little as possible, instead of taken care of a situation. Chicago has been a corupt city from it's earliest roots and is still that way today.

 

And don't expect that to change.

 

The ONLY way the NG would be called out, is if the Governor asked for it to happen. That would be his last term as governor, and the end of his career in politics. YOU may not care about that, but, you can bet your bottom dollar the governor would care. (and thus, will never do it.)

 

I should have put 'leaders' in quotes..... as they may not meet the connotations of being community leaders, they are, in fact, the ones that are in control. At least, of their respective 'territories'. Now, you think sending a bunch of white guys with automatic weapons into that situation, and telling them to 'clean it up' is a good idea? That is a recipe for disaster. The military is, by no stretch of the imagination, an arm of law enforcement. They have zero training to such an end, and we see how well it worked out in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Turning Chicago into even more of a war zone than it is now, is just a bad plan. The press would have a field day with it..... "Martial law declared in chicago."....... Wouldn't that be fun? And with it only happening in the predominately black neighborhoods..... Oh my....

 

You wouldn't solve any problems. You would introduce more, and start a race war too boot.

[sunshinenbrick]

The problem with any kind of 'embedded' corruption like that is it very quickly becomes a messy ball of yarn that everybody gets real scared of tripping over. You don't have to be black or live in Chicago to be Gangsta™.

[Lisnpuppy]

Being close friends with several police officers and WV State Police I can tell you what myself and most of them think about this, at least to start. Now knowing this isn't 100% the reason or cure but it sure helps...You get what you pay for.

 

Officers in more populated areas and areas where drug trafficking takes place typically will face more dangerous situations. They will often work longer hours to stretch the budgets of the already stretched.

 

Now I am not saying that most officers aren't hard working and able individuals. I think that many, if not most are. However if you are paying people to put their lives on the line day after day...if you want the best available you are going to have to pay them better than they are paid. Having people with good training, education and other necessities for these positions involves money. I know many folks are looking at it all backward...cops are corrupt and do not perform well....why should they get more money. That is ignoring the issue and putting the donkey before the cart. You have to be able to pay police officers a good wage that will compensate them for the danger and stress in which they find themselves daily. You have to have money to be able to give officers continuous and better training to handle high-stress situations. You have to be able to hire enough of them that they are not too overworked or too stressed and have adequate backup.

 

I completely believe that there are prejudice cops. That goes without saying. And no matter what you pay them there probably will be. But you can mitigate these things. You can have the training and ability to replace officers who are showing themselves incapable of holding that thin, blue line with only courage and conviction and not corruption. Paying these folks so little, having so few of them and not being able to train them properly, have proper evaluations and access to proper mental health services will only eventually, even with officers with the best of intent, lead to what we are seeing. The best that West Virginia has (and they used to be some of the best performing and best trained in the country) the State Troopers make on median $30,000 per year. That is less than $15 an hour on a 40hr a week schedule. You think they only work 40 hours a week?. Now there are troopers that make much more and some less. But on average...there you go. Now the standard of living here is lower than many places, but still. My husband, who works hard for his money, but nonetheless works a desk job makes more than these men and women.

 

I saw an interview with the head of police in Dallas (a black man if that is necessary to know) and he said these men make "40K a year" so even in a place with a much higher standard of living the average police office in Dallas, who lost members...who stood their ground and protected people to the loss of their own lives for $40,000 a year. I wouldn't. Would you?

 

So if you want more, better trained, less corruptible police that are more adaptable, less stressed and hopefully with less prejudice you have to pay them. In my opinion police, firefighters, EMS/Rescue and teachers should make more money than pretty much anyone else. We rely on these people to get us from danger, save our lives and teach our children every, single day. We don't thank them or acknowledge them until something like this happens and far too often it is only the bad we acknowledge and not the good they do. I am not saying to ignore these bad things, of course not. And I am well aware that a paycheck doesn't cure all ills. But maybe if we traded all the money the crappy politicians make every year with the wages of police service men and women it might male a start.

 

You get what you pay for...every...single...time.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

The national guard would only increase the violence. The community leaders there ARE the gangs....

 

Chicago would end up looking a lot like fallujah.

 

Not to mention it would be Political Suicide for any politician that authorized it.......

The gangs are not the community leaders. They don't care about the community other than what they can take from it. These are not radicalized idealist. They are people fighting other people such as themselves for the spoils they can take from a public that can't defend against them. You really don't know what's going on up there do you. It is not the public that is armed. It is the gangs that will kill you for speaking out, because they know that they and the police are to only one's armed. They also know that they outgun the police in manpower and firepower.

 

I would care less what a politician thought, since they want to look good by doing as little as possible, instead of taken care of a situation. Chicago has been a corupt city from it's earliest roots and is still that way today.

 

And don't expect that to change.

 

The ONLY way the NG would be called out, is if the Governor asked for it to happen. That would be his last term as governor, and the end of his career in politics. YOU may not care about that, but, you can bet your bottom dollar the governor would care. (and thus, will never do it.)

 

I should have put 'leaders' in quotes..... as they may not meet the connotations of being community leaders, they are, in fact, the ones that are in control. At least, of their respective 'territories'. Now, you think sending a bunch of white guys with automatic weapons into that situation, and telling them to 'clean it up' is a good idea? That is a recipe for disaster. The military is, by no stretch of the imagination, an arm of law enforcement. They have zero training to such an end, and we see how well it worked out in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Turning Chicago into even more of a war zone than it is now, is just a bad plan. The press would have a field day with it..... "Martial law declared in chicago."....... Wouldn't that be fun? And with it only happening in the predominately black neighborhoods..... Oh my....

 

You wouldn't solve any problems. You would introduce more, and start a race war too boot.

 

Please don't try to channel black people and what they think or want based on what you've heard, either here or wherever you are from. As far as gangs being in control, you have to be apart of one to know they are never in control, not even of themselves. What you have is nothing more than chaos on the barrel of the gun and the illusion of being apart of something based on the number of people their instead of any sense of brotherhood. These people prey on anyone and anything, which is why gangs form. First for protection and the for profit and once the money becomes the issue the camaraderie goes out the door.

 

Do you really think that the rest of the community who are being victimized by the relative small percentage of them that join gangs really want them there. Do you think they want these people beating up their kids, doing drive bys that kill innocent children or extorting money from neighborhood businesses that the local's utilize?

 

I think it's quite telling that you equate the national guard with quote/unquote a bunch of white people. The lions share of the national guard are minorities and all of them are from that state, with most of them coming from that area of the state. I don't think I said anything about the national guard doing law enforcement, They would restrict the freedoms of those who are in gangs to do their business and that would be enough to give breathing room to those who would implient the rest of what I stated.

 

You keep on bringing in Iraq as if the people in these gangs are the same religious fanatics that they were fighting over there. Those who fought over there were fighting infidels in an area of the world where religion holds entire counties in it's iron fist.

 

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

The national guard would only increase the violence. The community leaders there ARE the gangs....

 

Chicago would end up looking a lot like fallujah.

 

Not to mention it would be Political Suicide for any politician that authorized it.......

The gangs are not the community leaders. They don't care about the community other than what they can take from it. These are not radicalized idealist. They are people fighting other people such as themselves for the spoils they can take from a public that can't defend against them. You really don't know what's going on up there do you. It is not the public that is armed. It is the gangs that will kill you for speaking out, because they know that they and the police are to only one's armed. They also know that they outgun the police in manpower and firepower.

 

I would care less what a politician thought, since they want to look good by doing as little as possible, instead of taken care of a situation. Chicago has been a corupt city from it's earliest roots and is still that way today.

 

And don't expect that to change.

 

The ONLY way the NG would be called out, is if the Governor asked for it to happen. That would be his last term as governor, and the end of his career in politics. YOU may not care about that, but, you can bet your bottom dollar the governor would care. (and thus, will never do it.)

 

I should have put 'leaders' in quotes..... as they may not meet the connotations of being community leaders, they are, in fact, the ones that are in control. At least, of their respective 'territories'. Now, you think sending a bunch of white guys with automatic weapons into that situation, and telling them to 'clean it up' is a good idea? That is a recipe for disaster. The military is, by no stretch of the imagination, an arm of law enforcement. They have zero training to such an end, and we see how well it worked out in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Turning Chicago into even more of a war zone than it is now, is just a bad plan. The press would have a field day with it..... "Martial law declared in chicago."....... Wouldn't that be fun? And with it only happening in the predominately black neighborhoods..... Oh my....

 

You wouldn't solve any problems. You would introduce more, and start a race war too boot.

 

 

the illusion of being apart of something based on the number of people their instead of any sense of brotherhood. These people prey on anyone and anything, which is why gangs form. First for protection and the for profit

 

Gangs such as what you describe, form because there is no other body to represent the realities of the lives they face. Yes, of course there will be 'roadies' and 'phonies', but that is the case across the scale, right up into the mothership itself. Look at the crooks pushing the corners of government.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

The national guard would only increase the violence. The community leaders there ARE the gangs....

 

Chicago would end up looking a lot like fallujah.

 

Not to mention it would be Political Suicide for any politician that authorized it.......

The gangs are not the community leaders. They don't care about the community other than what they can take from it. These are not radicalized idealist. They are people fighting other people such as themselves for the spoils they can take from a public that can't defend against them. You really don't know what's going on up there do you. It is not the public that is armed. It is the gangs that will kill you for speaking out, because they know that they and the police are to only one's armed. They also know that they outgun the police in manpower and firepower.

 

I would care less what a politician thought, since they want to look good by doing as little as possible, instead of taken care of a situation. Chicago has been a corupt city from it's earliest roots and is still that way today.

 

And don't expect that to change.

 

The ONLY way the NG would be called out, is if the Governor asked for it to happen. That would be his last term as governor, and the end of his career in politics. YOU may not care about that, but, you can bet your bottom dollar the governor would care. (and thus, will never do it.)

 

I should have put 'leaders' in quotes..... as they may not meet the connotations of being community leaders, they are, in fact, the ones that are in control. At least, of their respective 'territories'. Now, you think sending a bunch of white guys with automatic weapons into that situation, and telling them to 'clean it up' is a good idea? That is a recipe for disaster. The military is, by no stretch of the imagination, an arm of law enforcement. They have zero training to such an end, and we see how well it worked out in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Turning Chicago into even more of a war zone than it is now, is just a bad plan. The press would have a field day with it..... "Martial law declared in chicago."....... Wouldn't that be fun? And with it only happening in the predominately black neighborhoods..... Oh my....

 

You wouldn't solve any problems. You would introduce more, and start a race war too boot.

 

 

the illusion of being apart of something based on the number of people their instead of any sense of brotherhood. These people prey on anyone and anything, which is why gangs form. First for protection and the for profit

 

Gangs such as what you describe, form because there is no other body to represent the realities of the lives they face. Yes, of course there will be 'roadies' and 'phonies', but that is the case across the scale, right up into the mothership itself. Look at the crooks pushing the corners of government.

 

That goes without saying. The politicains use these people's live as a political football.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

The national guard would only increase the violence. The community leaders there ARE the gangs....

 

Chicago would end up looking a lot like fallujah.

 

Not to mention it would be Political Suicide for any politician that authorized it.......

The gangs are not the community leaders. They don't care about the community other than what they can take from it. These are not radicalized idealist. They are people fighting other people such as themselves for the spoils they can take from a public that can't defend against them. You really don't know what's going on up there do you. It is not the public that is armed. It is the gangs that will kill you for speaking out, because they know that they and the police are to only one's armed. They also know that they outgun the police in manpower and firepower.

 

I would care less what a politician thought, since they want to look good by doing as little as possible, instead of taken care of a situation. Chicago has been a corupt city from it's earliest roots and is still that way today.

 

And don't expect that to change.

 

The ONLY way the NG would be called out, is if the Governor asked for it to happen. That would be his last term as governor, and the end of his career in politics. YOU may not care about that, but, you can bet your bottom dollar the governor would care. (and thus, will never do it.)

 

I should have put 'leaders' in quotes..... as they may not meet the connotations of being community leaders, they are, in fact, the ones that are in control. At least, of their respective 'territories'. Now, you think sending a bunch of white guys with automatic weapons into that situation, and telling them to 'clean it up' is a good idea? That is a recipe for disaster. The military is, by no stretch of the imagination, an arm of law enforcement. They have zero training to such an end, and we see how well it worked out in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Turning Chicago into even more of a war zone than it is now, is just a bad plan. The press would have a field day with it..... "Martial law declared in chicago."....... Wouldn't that be fun? And with it only happening in the predominately black neighborhoods..... Oh my....

 

You wouldn't solve any problems. You would introduce more, and start a race war too boot.

 

Please don't try to channel black people and what they think or want based on what you've heard, either here or wherever you are from. As far as gangs being in control, you have to be apart of one to know they are never in control, not even of themselves. What you have is nothing more than chaos on the barrel of the gun and the illusion of being apart of something based on the number of people their instead of any sense of brotherhood. These people prey on anyone and anything, which is why gangs form. First for protection and the for profit and once the money becomes the issue the camaraderie goes out the door.

 

Do you really think that the rest of the community who are being victimized by the relative small percentage of them that join gangs really want them there. Do you think they want these people beating up their kids, doing drive bys that kill innocent children or extorting money from neighborhood businesses that the local's utilize?

 

I think it's quite telling that you equate the national guard with quote/unquote a bunch of white people. The lions share of the national guard are minorities and all of them are from that state, with most of them coming from that area of the state. I don't think I said anything about the national guard doing law enforcement, They would restrict the freedoms of those who are in gangs to do their business and that would be enough to give breathing room to those who would implient the rest of what I stated.

 

You keep on bringing in Iraq as if the people in these gangs are the same religious fanatics that they were fighting over there. Those who fought over there were fighting infidels in an area of the world where religion holds entire counties in it's iron fist.

 

 

But you still completely ignore the political reality of the situation. Simply calling in the national guard would be a political nightmare. Any politician that advocated/supported such an action would be kissing their political career goodbye. The press would do their best to paint it in the worst light possible. "Martial Law", and they would be correct. Using the NG to 'restrict the freedoms' of the gangs IS martial law/law enforcement. Suspending constitutional rights of freedom of movement/gathering, etc, would have every civil rights organization up in arms. You think there is chaos NOW? Put military in their, and you would go from chaos, to war zone in short order. The violence would only get worse. But now, you would have the NG in there with heavy weapons, able to kill on a grand scale.

 

There is a REASON the constitution forbids use of the army to 'keep the peace' in anything other than a dire emergency.

 

Now, do you think the folks that live there, would actually WANT to see something like this happen? How would the NG tell who was a gang member, and who was just walking to the corner store? Are you going to restrict EVERYONES rights in the area? Checkpoints? I.D.s? How long are you going to keep them there? Who is going to pay for it?

 

No, there is a reason this hasn't already been done. Remember the Watts riots? Or the riots in Detroit back in the 60's? Different motivations, but, you would get the same results.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

The national guard would only increase the violence. The community leaders there ARE the gangs....

 

Chicago would end up looking a lot like fallujah.

 

Not to mention it would be Political Suicide for any politician that authorized it.......

The gangs are not the community leaders. They don't care about the community other than what they can take from it. These are not radicalized idealist. They are people fighting other people such as themselves for the spoils they can take from a public that can't defend against them. You really don't know what's going on up there do you. It is not the public that is armed. It is the gangs that will kill you for speaking out, because they know that they and the police are to only one's armed. They also know that they outgun the police in manpower and firepower.

 

I would care less what a politician thought, since they want to look good by doing as little as possible, instead of taken care of a situation. Chicago has been a corupt city from it's earliest roots and is still that way today.

 

And don't expect that to change.

 

The ONLY way the NG would be called out, is if the Governor asked for it to happen. That would be his last term as governor, and the end of his career in politics. YOU may not care about that, but, you can bet your bottom dollar the governor would care. (and thus, will never do it.)

 

I should have put 'leaders' in quotes..... as they may not meet the connotations of being community leaders, they are, in fact, the ones that are in control. At least, of their respective 'territories'. Now, you think sending a bunch of white guys with automatic weapons into that situation, and telling them to 'clean it up' is a good idea? That is a recipe for disaster. The military is, by no stretch of the imagination, an arm of law enforcement. They have zero training to such an end, and we see how well it worked out in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Turning Chicago into even more of a war zone than it is now, is just a bad plan. The press would have a field day with it..... "Martial law declared in chicago."....... Wouldn't that be fun? And with it only happening in the predominately black neighborhoods..... Oh my....

 

You wouldn't solve any problems. You would introduce more, and start a race war too boot.

 

Please don't try to channel black people and what they think or want based on what you've heard, either here or wherever you are from. As far as gangs being in control, you have to be apart of one to know they are never in control, not even of themselves. What you have is nothing more than chaos on the barrel of the gun and the illusion of being apart of something based on the number of people their instead of any sense of brotherhood. These people prey on anyone and anything, which is why gangs form. First for protection and the for profit and once the money becomes the issue the camaraderie goes out the door.

 

Do you really think that the rest of the community who are being victimized by the relative small percentage of them that join gangs really want them there. Do you think they want these people beating up their kids, doing drive bys that kill innocent children or extorting money from neighborhood businesses that the local's utilize?

 

I think it's quite telling that you equate the national guard with quote/unquote a bunch of white people. The lions share of the national guard are minorities and all of them are from that state, with most of them coming from that area of the state. I don't think I said anything about the national guard doing law enforcement, They would restrict the freedoms of those who are in gangs to do their business and that would be enough to give breathing room to those who would implient the rest of what I stated.

 

You keep on bringing in Iraq as if the people in these gangs are the same religious fanatics that they were fighting over there. Those who fought over there were fighting infidels in an area of the world where religion holds entire counties in it's iron fist.

 

 

But you still completely ignore the political reality of the situation. Simply calling in the national guard would be a political nightmare. Any politician that advocated/supported such an action would be kissing their political career goodbye. The press would do their best to paint it in the worst light possible. "Martial Law", and they would be correct. Using the NG to 'restrict the freedoms' of the gangs IS martial law/law enforcement. Suspending constitutional rights of freedom of movement/gathering, etc, would have every civil rights organization up in arms. You think there is chaos NOW? Put military in their, and you would go from chaos, to war zone in short order. The violence would only get worse. But now, you would have the NG in there with heavy weapons, able to kill on a grand scale.

 

There is a REASON the constitution forbids use of the army to 'keep the peace' in anything other than a dire emergency.

 

Now, do you think the folks that live there, would actually WANT to see something like this happen? How would the NG tell who was a gang member, and who was just walking to the corner store? Are you going to restrict EVERYONES rights in the area? Checkpoints? I.D.s? How long are you going to keep them there? Who is going to pay for it?

 

No, there is a reason this hasn't already been done. Remember the Watts riots? Or the riots in Detroit back in the 60's? Different motivations, but, you would get the same results.

 

The political realities you speak of are not realities at all. Simply preconceived assumptions based on your interpretation of ground truth. Martial law being used to describe what would happen to people selling crack on the street corners or doing a drive by shooting is not martial law, it is stepping up the presence of official authority personnel in areas where people would in any other case would be afraid to be out in the open. Criminal activity would be effected not average people going about living their lives.

 

You also forget that the secondary program of placing sivilian personel in with the police would be growing in leaps and bounds as those who would be afraid to be seen with cops would have the suppression of gang activity to bolster their courage and those citizens who would normally be affraid to come forword and report crimes would have the breathing room to do so under this program. Those who ride with police would be the open door that would hopefully turn the door on the trust issue between police and the black community. That in itself would cause the media to think twice about demonizing something that more and more law abiding black people would see as a positive step.

 

As far as the NG recognizing gang members, that would be the issue for the regular police. I'm sure they would have much of them on file, but as the gang activity would be at a minimum since the presence of the NG, I don't think there would be much to charge them with and a much better chance of going after old warrents, since the public would be mor4e inclined to give tips. Also the cops who do like to abuse their authority would be under the same scrutiny, since the NG would be around to observe them as well as everybody else.

 

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on riots, but you don't look at the causes or the force that quelled the riots.

[kvnchrist]

The problem with any kind of 'embedded' corruption like that is it very quickly becomes a messy ball of yarn that everybody gets real scared of tripping over. You don't have to be black or live in Chicago to be Gangsta™.

Not to mention that you don't have to be a gangster to be a criminal. That's why I supprt a complete financial and ethical reveiw of all politicans and police leadership. I would expand this out to those in the bureaucracy and the police force to identify those taking kickbacks for looking the other way, those people awarding public project contracts. I would also stipulate that public works projects would be awarded to loacal contractors and to minority owners in particular. I would also look at having contractors hiring people who want to learn the trade as journeymen/women laborers with the state paying 1/2 of that persons wages for a period of one or two years.

 

Atleast then there will be more skilled laborers and a better encentive to seek gainful employment other than criminal gangs. This would those encarserated as low risk offenders.

[HeyYou]

There are so many problems with what you propose, some of which I have already detailed, that I am not even going to bother to go any further with this.

 

Face it, NO ONE is going to invite the NG in to enforce laws, as that is EXACTLY what they will be doing. You can try and pass me off as just some prejudiced, biased, whatever, that has no clue of the reality on the ground, but, you would be wrong.

 

There is NO easy solution here. Involving the military, in any form, isn't the answer. These communities need to work from within to solve their issues. Unfortunately, they don't seem able to do so. They seem to expect the government to solve all their problems, and the government has proven terribly inept at solving anything.