Boycott Beth.net

[Reneer]

correct me if im wrong but isn't open source often times something that was previously monetized and then given away for free? Also dont most people use open source software to create something unique and sell? I dont think they sell open source software "out of the box" when it can be obtained for free elsewhere but I could be wrong.

You are incorrect. Open Source Software is more often created as free software rather than being a previously monetized product. There are, however, several examples of companies (such as id) releasing their game engine source for free after their have obtained their return on investment from the engine. There are many ways that Open Source Software can be sold as a software product - often this is called dual-licensing, where the software creator provides two licenses: one that requires payment and one that does not. Typically the license that does not require payment will be more restrictive in what people can do with it (for example it can't be commercialized or any projects using the OSS license must be likewise OSS). Often the "paid" license will not have these sorts of restrictions.

 

Either way if I were to except oss as an example I would still find this sort of behavior rather rare in the grand scheme of things.

You would also be mistaken here. Approximately 50% of websites are run on Apache, an open-source web server. MySQL, one of the leading relational databases used on the web (and what runs this forum software in the backend, if I'm not mistaken), is also open-source software. Most Bethesda game mods wouldn't have new models without Blender, an open-source 3D modeling program. We wouldn't be able to get those models into the game without the open-source program Nifskope. Bethesda themsleves uses open-source code in their games all the time. And let's not forget whole operating systems such as Ubuntu and Fedora are open-source software.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Reneer

[chucksteel]

Wine is open source software that let's mac's use windows software, it works and works well but there is a pay version called Crossover which is based on the open source code but is user friendly so yes there are cases of open source going from free to payed.

 

Edit and the free version is still available to anyone who wants it.

Edited July 19, 2016 by chucksteel

[JaYmZeE311074]

FALLOUT 4 = POTENTIALLY BEST FALLOUT GAME.

 

Need to see if these modders will stop whining about getting paid and get back to work!

 

I jest in line 2 - line 1 I genuinely believe and it's gonna come down to the mods that will come once things settle down. With the framework FO4 provides the mods that I can conceive being developed will surpass any and all that have gone before.

 

I've got one in mind called "Root Cellar". Your in a root cellar and there's some roots and then Liberty Prime pulls on the wrong root and theres gonna be explosions and dead relatives and quests that you do so well you'll get other roots to pull on and eventually it'll be a "Root Basement" - that's the 2nd installment and I'm keeping the rest to myself cause I WANT PAID FOR IT! No, seriously - You can have "Root Cellar" for sweet FA but the rest I want £15 a time or you can buy the family pack for £50 now, I'm away to set up pay pal or whatever.

 

3rd installment - "ROOT not Vault but kinda vault size".

 

DLC - Build your on "ROOT CELLAR" - there's gonna be a guy who sells roots.

[Alexotero1219]

 

correct me if im wrong but isn't open source often times something that was previously monetized and then given away for free? Also dont most people use open source software to create something unique and sell? I dont think they sell open source software "out of the box" when it can be obtained for free elsewhere but I could be wrong.

You are incorrect. Open Source Software is more often created as free software rather than being a previously monetized product. There are, however, several examples of companies (such as id) releasing their game engine source for free after their have obtained their return on investment from the engine. There are many ways that Open Source Software can be sold as a software product - often this is called dual-licensing, where the software creator provides two licenses: one that requires payment and one that does not. Typically the license that does not require payment will be more restrictive in what people can do with it (for example it can't be commercialized or any projects using the OSS license must be likewise OSS). Often the "paid" license will not have these sorts of restrictions.

 

Either way if I were to except oss as an example I would still find this sort of behavior rather rare in the grand scheme of things.

You would also be mistaken here. Approximately 50% of websites are run on Apache, an open-source web server. MySQL, one of the leading relational databases used on the web (and what runs this forum software in the backend, if I'm not mistaken), is also open-source software. Most Bethesda game mods wouldn't have new models without Blender, an open-source 3D modeling program. We wouldn't be able to get those models into the game without the open-source program Nifskope. Bethesda themsleves uses open-source code in their games all the time. And let's not forget whole operating systems such as Ubuntu and Fedora are open-source software.

 

Interesting. You learn something new everyday I suppose.

 

I think it might be reaching to link the two though. How would a paid modding market operate like open source? Would some just give their work away to others to profit off of? seems odd to me.

 

How often do open source licenses contain requirements that anything produced with their code also be open source? If its very often then I dont know if its likely that pay for mods would operate in a similar way.

 

do any of the tools used to create mods for bethesda games have licenses like this? If so how did bethesda manage the first paid modding attempt without violating those licenses?

 

This is not something I know alot about so im genuinely interested in your answers.

[Reneer]

Interesting. You learn something new everyday I suppose.

 

I think it might be reaching to link the two though. How would a paid modding market operate like open source? Would some just give their work away to others to profit off of? seems odd to me.

 

How often do open source licenses contain requirements that anything produced with their code also be open source? If its very often then I dont know if its likely that pay for mods would operate in a similar way.

I would have no way of knowing that kind of information since no one keeps track of that sort of thing. I could tell you a bit about particular licenses, but I couldn't tell you how often those licenses are used in actual projects.

 

I never said paid modding would operate like open-source. I was simply pointing out that there are numerous groups and individuals who give away their work for free while also allowing others the ability to profit off of their work without having to pay royalties or anything like that.

 

do any of the tools used to create mods for bethesda games have licenses like this? If so how did bethesda manage the first paid modding attempt without violating those licenses?

 

This is not something I know a lot about so im genuinely interested in your answers.

Those tools either did not have those kind of licenses or Bethesda purchased one of the licenses that allowed for their code to not be open-source. The number of licenses in the use of the Creation Kit alone is rather large and obviously all those tools' creators were OK with paid mods being a thing, else Bethesda would have never done it in the first place. Not to mention some of those 3rd party tools aren't directly used in mods, but instead are use to help the CK function.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Reneer

[Death88400]

So after spending about a day and a half reading through this is wow, that's a lot of hypocrisy coming from OP, but carrying on, I myself am starting to create mods because I feel like PA and Weapons are lacking on Nexus and IG, and if the whole paid modding was to reappear, I myself would leave my mods free no not because I think Paid modding is stupid, I'm indifferent on all of this entire argument essentially, but because as another fine person said earlier in this thread, I want to get my mods out there and for people to play and enjoy them as I have little to no money left lying around for buying mods, and I understand that some do and how modders want to get paid I can see that, But I just want people to enjoy my mods regardless of how much or how little money they have or whether they are using console or PC, and I can see how that would be a little optimistic and how not everyone is like, that, that's cool you do you your the only one who can anyways.

 

My point is regardless of if I was being paid to or not, it would be nice, but my endgame here is that people should be able to at least enjoy my mods regardless of circumstances and I hope others can also see it that way, but that's kinda a pipe dream for everyone to be like that.

[mrmini]

To be honest I don't get the hate for Bethesda.net. Its not really any different than Steam, just another place to get mods from. yeah, they had issues with mod theft, but that has gotten better.

[ahnjd]

To be honest I don't get the hate for Bethesda.net. Its not really any different than Steam, just another place to get mods from. yeah, they had issues with mod theft, but that has gotten better.

 

I think its because it is a Bethesda platform for mods, meaning if Bethesda sanctioned having such a platform, one would believe they would try to work with the mod in order to make it the best platform possible. Instead, the "Officially Sanctioned Mod Platform" show Bethesda had has a pocket full of Fks and few to give.

Edited July 20, 2016 by ahnjd

[HeartBroken]

Why are you uploading your mods to Beth.net? The purpose of that site is to take control of the modding scene away from the Nexus. To legally own your hard work and make a profit from it while not giving you a cent. You have to ask yourselves, modding has been fine on the Nexus for years. It didn't need any 'help' or change. Beth.net doesn't need to exist. So why have they gone to the trouble? Why would you trust them after what they did with the paid modding fiasco? They'll surely try again, mark my words.

So boycott Bethesda.net! If none of you play ball, they have no game! Stop handing over your power. I never understood why people do this. If it isn't broken then it doesn't need fixing, yet when someone tries to change things, everyone jumps on board even though it doesn't have their best interests at heart. It's like you all have the mentality that this sort of thing is inevitable. It's only inevitable because you let it be!

 

I am not a mod author but I decided to boycott Bethesda's mod site quite a while back, they make decent games that benefit greatly from their ease of mod-ability. But they do not understand modding and in their ignorance have damaged it multiple times; I blame the incessant "moar profits!" nonsense as much as I do their lack of understanding. Frankly, Bethesda games without modding are not going to sell particularly well, too many bugs, not as much creativity. Skyrim is still one of the crashiest games I have ever owned.

[Mitigate]

 

Why are you uploading your mods to Beth.net? The purpose of that site is to take control of the modding scene away from the Nexus. To legally own your hard work and make a profit from it while not giving you a cent. You have to ask yourselves, modding has been fine on the Nexus for years. It didn't need any 'help' or change. Beth.net doesn't need to exist. So why have they gone to the trouble? Why would you trust them after what they did with the paid modding fiasco? They'll surely try again, mark my words.

So boycott Bethesda.net! If none of you play ball, they have no game! Stop handing over your power. I never understood why people do this. If it isn't broken then it doesn't need fixing, yet when someone tries to change things, everyone jumps on board even though it doesn't have their best interests at heart. It's like you all have the mentality that this sort of thing is inevitable. It's only inevitable because you let it be!

 

I am not a mod author but I decided to boycott Bethesda's mod site quite a while back, they make decent games that benefit greatly from their ease of mod-ability. But they do not understand modding and in their ignorance have damaged it multiple times; I blame the incessant "moar profits!" nonsense as much as I do their lack of understanding. Frankly, Bethesda games without modding are not going to sell particularly well, too many bugs, not as much creativity. Skyrim is still one of the crashiest games I have ever owned.

 

This one gets it.