Beth messed up our elves!

[Lisnpuppy]

Ok...really? Calling someone xenophobic because of their views on a GAME? Really? I think you may want to rethink that word.

 

If you note in lore the physical attributes of ANY of the races is kept to a minimum. No one really waxes poetic about any race and their physical attractiveness. Its kept vague on purpose of allowing Bethesda more freedom when they make these games, the gamer more freedom when creating their PC and also because that is the least of important things about the races.

 

I believe the new elves (in Skyrim) are very reminiscent of Morrowind (which is the first game really that isn't some either pixilated character or a hand-drawing as an avatar replacement.) When they made Oblivion for either mechanical reasons or just because they wanted to expand folks ideas of what "elf" should be, Bethesda made it very different stylistic changes to what elves looked like. Mods in both Morrowind and Oblivion pushed that envelope even more. Also comparing all these to the pictures drawn by Bethesda of the different races in the "character race descriptions" is really not the same as how there were portrayed in Morrowind or Ob.

 

Knowing this...and knowing how the fan base was Bethesda SHOULD have given a more varied preset options for the more "traditional" elves and some that over the years that modders have made which were very popular and considered attractive (note I do not say beautiful...just attractive based on popular mods) that way more folks would be happy with the results of the character creator. Bethesda could have then protected what many here, it seems, believe to be canonical ideals of the races appearance and expanded the races looks at the same time.

 

Ultimate this game is a fantasy and what our desires are for the game outweigh in the end anything but our personal perceptions...thus why there are so many mod races around in all games.

 

So everyone take a deep breath and stop taking all this so personal and serious. Stop tossing about really upsetting terms regarding the folks that are posting in this thread. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[angrytigerp]

Elves/Mer are not humans..... Elves/Mer are not humans.... What you consider the differences between male and female from a anthropocentric view does not mean that other ethnicities/races have to fit those types of physical characteristics..... Seems to me probably stems from an underlying xenophobia.... These different races you can choose are entirely separate and should not be the silly puddy mess that was the oblivion character creation where everyone looked the same with different color skin.

 

Trolling again. You are accusing me or what amounts to racism and I am not going to stand for that. I live in a multi ethnic community and find that in each ethnic group, the males and females look distinctly different. It's as simple as that. It beggars belief that you and likeitsillegal are now playing the race card just for me pointing out the fact that males and females, and I am talking about HUMANOID races, after all the elves are humanoid though not HUMAN, look different. Really, that is utterly ridiculous and nothing more than an attempt at troublemaking. It's also defamation.

 

Technically, it is racism. You don't like the aesthetics of the RACES of Dunmer, Bosmer, and Altmer. May be fictional races, but still. You find the defining qualities of their races aesthetically displeasing, and that's fine. I love how utterly defensive you get, though, with the "I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE [race]" card... no one accused you of hating [race] people, just of hating Mer. That just means Bethesda did their job right in creating races that are different enough to elicit so severe a response from some. Calm down, whitewash (or humanwash, as it were) the elves when the mod tools come out, but quit with this "Bethesda messed up" bulls***. Because, as has been said numerous times by numerous people, Mer -- while humanoid -- ARE. NOT. HUMAN.

 

Strike assessed for flaming. -mm

Edited November 26, 2011 by myrmaad

[Lisnpuppy]

Ginny did not start this thread, she replied to it and no...and don't get anyone on a technicality. She has been called a racist and a Xenophobe, none of which are needed to get YOUR point across. If she gets her hair up I don't blame her in this one.

[Sepherose]

As much as I can sympathize with people wanting their characters to look good to them, I have to say, I'm on the "loves the Skyrim elves" side of the line, and for a few simple reasons:

 

1. The races of Mer and Men are wholly separate, ergo, the Mer ~are~ alien to us, and should look like it.

2. This is Skyrim, a harsh environment. Anyone that wanders it long enough is going to be none too easy on the eyes.

3. Some of the Mer I have come across in my playthrough have been quite delicate looking and attractive. But these are typically characters you would expect to live behind walls the majority of their lives.

 

In the end, it's down wholly to personal opinion, so please, don't think I'm belittling anyone's here. People should be able to enjoy their game thoroughly however they want. Hence why modding exists. :)

[JimboUK]

There wouldn't be any problem if the character generator had more options, for me that is the biggest issue. Oblivions character generator was a bit awkward to use but it was possible to create a unique character, Skyrims Chargen isn't much better than Morrowinds, instead of picking from a few pre-made heads you're picking from a selection of pre-made parts which you can't edit. A decent character generator would leave everyone happy.

 

As for this thread, it would be nice if people could stop trivialising racism by throwing idiotic accusations around, if I want to read accusations of racism where none exists I'll go to the Guardians website.

[Bunik]

I agree with Jim above. (on the generator part and the other)

 

Please don't go into the waters of racism here. Not liking aesthetics of something or even entire race doesn't mean that person is a racist. Racism goes much further than that.

 

If I don't like brown collor, does it mean I am automatically racist to all the brownish types?

If I don't like certain face features which unfortunatelly......I guess you got the point.

 

Otherwise this discussion is a good inspiration for mods. So let's keep it creative. :)

[Ghogiel]

Art reference is probably the best source of how mer are supposed to be represented in the eyes of the art department. however> Saying elves are supposed to look like this or that is incoherent. Both in reference to MW or Ob. In Skyrim they look like they do because that's how they look. end of.

 

I think the Mer look pretty awesome in Skyrim. And I found it hard to resist choosing one. The Bosmer in OB were utterly fuggly potato heads. now they look like they are feral, tribal rugged Mer. Like their lore wants me to believe.

 

I believe the new elves (in Skyrim) are very reminiscent of Morrowind (which is the first game really that isn't some either pixilated character or a hand-drawing as an avatar replacement.) When they made Oblivion for either mechanical reasons or just because they wanted to expand folks ideas of what "elf" should be, Bethesda made it very different stylistic changes to what elves looked like.

yes, 'mechanical' reasons is a very prominent reason why oblivions Mer were basically the head of a human: they used the same head mesh. This blocked unique mer race heads, making all the non beast races generic as one another, the only thing that even challenged that is the oh so great facegen morphs :pinch:

 

Just saying a technical limitation is not the same thing as good art design :geek:

[ginnyfizz]

The Bosmer in OB were utterly fuggly potato heads.

 

You're certainly not wrong there. I do get the feral thing for Bosmer because I seem to remember reading somewhere a piece of law that suggests they were cannibals. I do like how in Skyrim it is possible to make elves look distinct from humans. Mods have fixed a number of things that weren't for me. But I really do wish we had more detailed face sliders (one of the better things about OB). It's as jim_uk said, we are "picking from a selection of pre-made parts which you can't edit. A decent character generator would leave everyone happy.", so that I could edit the bits I don't like.

[Bunik]

yes, 'mechanical' reasons is a very prominent reason why oblivions Mer were basically the head of a human: they used the same head mesh. This blocked unique mer race heads, making all the non beast races generic as one another, the only thing that even challenged that is the oh so great facegen morphs :pinch:

 

Let's face it. They were awesome at that time. :)

[Lachdonin]

The Bosmer in OB were utterly fuggly potato heads.

 

You're certainly not wrong there. I do get the feral thing for Bosmer because I seem to remember reading somewhere a piece of law that suggests they were cannibals.

 

Not only cannibals, but strictly carnivorious. Valenwood is and... interesting place, with migrating forests, man-eating vines and some near sentient plants (Though nothing so complex as the Hist of Blackmarsh). The Bosmer, because of their relationship with the forests, do not eat plants of any sort, and only eat meat. When a family member dies, the clan consumes their body to 'keep it in the family'. That fact is really reminicent of some Indonesian cultures which, until recently (In fact, they may still do it, no one can get a straight answer) practices cannibalism of dead relatives, which has led to an endemic prion condition known as Kuru. That may explain why all the Bosmer are fidgety and somewhat nuts...

 

 

But I really do wish we had more detailed face sliders (one of the better things about OB). It's as jim_uk said, we are "picking from a selection of pre-made parts which you can't edit. A decent character generator would leave everyone happy.", so that I could edit the bits I don't like.

 

I agree that this is a serious, almost crippling factor with the games character design. Until we get the Construction Set, however, we don't know how easy it will be to fix. I'm unawair of how they dealt with it in Fallout, as i have the games for Xbox, but i certianly hope we don't have a recreation of the Oblivion era 'A different race for every head design'.

 

Still, i find some of the Dunmer chicks damn easy on the eyes...And i'm not into 'exotic' looks. Exotic for me being anything other than northren european.