Synth Shaun: Moral Issue?

[bLakZmOkeareOoouYyye]

This is one of the reasons why the institute must burn

[greentea101]

So you would be fine with allowing this boy to be a boy forever? Never allowed to grow up, get married, have a wife and such?

 

You will always and only be 10 years old: PERIOD.

 

Where is your morality in that?

 

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't kill him against his wishes, and I would probably let him kill himself if that's what he wanted. The only thing that makes this a somewhat complicated issue is the fact that he has the immature psyche of a ten year old, and is not exactly qualified to make important decisions about his own life. But considering the way you worded your question ("would you allow him to be a boy forever"), I have to say yes, I would definitely allow him that, if that's what he wanted. It would be murder to kill him just because you decided that his life is not good enough to be worth living. Yes, this is fantasy, but wanting to kill him just because he's ten years old is an insane way to process this fantasy scenario.

[jjb54]

 

So you would be fine with allowing this boy to be a boy forever? Never allowed to grow up, get married, have a wife and such?

 

You will always and only be 10 years old: PERIOD.

 

Where is your morality in that?

 

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't kill him against his wishes, and I would probably let him kill himself if that's what he wanted. The only thing that makes this a somewhat complicated issue is the fact that he has the immature psyche of a ten year old, and is not exactly qualified to make important decisions about his own life. But considering the way you worded your question ("would you allow him to be a boy forever"), I have to say yes, I would definitely allow him that, if that's what he wanted. It would be murder to kill him just because you decided that his life is not good enough to be worth living. Yes, this is fantasy, but wanting to kill him just because he's ten years old is an insane way to process this fantasy scenario.

 

 

Now, I understand this is just a game and I'm not taking it even semi-serious. But I do find some of the challenges great for dialog!

 

Case in point - I found the 'issue' to be interesting. This is meant to be just a thought provoking fun dialog and nothing more. :)

 

You stated:

 

The only thing that makes this a somewhat complicated issue is the fact that he has the immature psyche of a ten year old, and is not exactly qualified to make important decisions about his own life.

 

Then at what point, before you take him as 'your son', do you explain to him,

 

"If we 'go here', to be my 'son', you must understand something: You will always be a 10 year old boy. You will not grow up and you will never be an adult. Now that does mean you will not grow 'wiser' - 'smarter' and such. You will, as you experiences and such move forward. But you will always be 10 years old."

 

See this is what made this part of the quest just a little over the top: Why would anyone in the right mind, create a child that would / will never grow into an adult. Who would create a "life" in this matter? The Elder Shaun, obviously proved that the Institute is indeed NOT a better life for humanity. He was not even able to see that the Gen 3 had become 'self-aware'.

[Stronglav]

I wonder if you setup arena synth boy against three legendary deathclaws who will win.....

[jjb54]

I wonder if you setup arena synth boy against three legendary deathclaws who will win.....

 

LOL ..... he would take them down with the Wazer-Gun.

 

See that is the other part of the Synth Shaun that is leaving me seriously DRY. You cannot have any sort of 'relationship' with the boy. It's, "Hey dad, could you get me .. item .. I want to make something cool."

 

You get it for him and that's that. There is no character interaction or development. It would have been more interesting to at least have the option to take him on some of the adventures with you! I don't mean the 'hard core' ones, but take him w/you to the other settlements, and some interactions, like DIamond City - Beacon Hill - and such.

 

This over protecting "kids" in the game is like: Why bother having kids in the game at all, especially a 'son' that will always be 10 years old and the only interaction is getting stuff for him.

 

Yes, I know it's a game, :)

 

..... but it seems Beth could have done a little more character interaction w/Synth Shaun than just getting him stuff. Seriously shallow.

 

Bottom Line: from talking w/a few other game players in chat and such. One of the things that most agreed too is: Less NPC's, if that means more depth of character in a few ....

 

I found it interesting that most that I talked with agreed:

 

Nick is by far a great character, because there is depth to him, which we got more of his story w/the DLC: Far Harbor.

 

MacCready, again, we have a character from FO-3 and a story and quest that made the character have depth.

 

Deacon, as I have already stated: There was so MUCH that could have been done and Beth Failed Big Time:

 

.. His adventures in the Capital Wasteland.

.. He being a member of the "Death Claws".

.. His marrying Barbara and find out she was a synth.

.. His killing the Death Claw gang.

 

All or some of the above could have been GREAT side and/or major Quests.

 

The same back to Synth Shaun. There was a limited potential to have a bit more of a relationship than just - "Dad, could you get me ...?" and that is all we ever get, for the rest of the player's life - because Synth Shaun will always be and forever be 10 Years Old.

 

Oh, well ... back to real life and a cup of coffee. :)

 

Fine Print: I like to write stories, fictional, so this is why I 'get into this' and character. Yes I totally understand that there is only 'so much', one can do with an RPG - FS game. But when I see a potential, IE: Deacon / Shaun and such. I would gladly sacrifice Strong - Preston and such for a little more depth in other characters.

 

IE: Skyrim - Indigo Mod is a great example of character development, as was the time Beth spent on Nick's story and MacCready's story.... It is possible to 'go there'. Just cut of the fat, like Strong and Curie, for example.

[GnatGoSplat]

I don't understand the dilemma, really. Being forever a child would for me be a blessing. I loved being a kid. 10yrs old was a happy time in my life. I'd go back to it in a heartbeat, if I could. The only fear I had when I was 10, was the fear of having to grow up. It sucks just as bad as I thought it would. I hate being an adult. The only cool things about being an adult is having money and being able to own/drive cars. I'd happily give it up to be a kid again. Maybe unlike most people, I never grew up, I only grew older. I clearly remember being 10 and I wasn't really any different than I am now. Maybe now I'm quite a bit fatter, hairier, uglier, and cynical, but that's about it.

 

How long could I stand being 10? Probably until the sun supernovas and destroys the earth with it.

 

I might rather forever be 16, 18, or 20, but hell, I'd take 10.

 

Lucky kid, that synth-Shaun.

[dragonslayer2k12]

This is what doesn't make any sense to me, the gen 3 synths are supposed to be indistinguishable from real humans so they should be able to grow if they are a child and if they are an adult they should be able to have children?

 

I really hate deacon's dialogue where he uses the canned liberal PSA term "bigot" to describe himself earlier in life. I hate how all that crap is crammed into this game they just can't let people decide things for themselves have to shove that garbage down the player throat every game they make? He could have just said he was a real jerk or something else.

 

Synths are so badly written in this game it is just a dam joke but more like a reflection on the declining quality of art and entertainment coming from places like america and europe these days. Society is in decline and so everything suffers including art and music and culture. Movies now are so crappy they are a total waste of time and music sounds like some kind of an anti personnel weapon instead of entertainment.

[GnatGoSplat]

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me either. If they really wanted to make the story make sense, they could say something like gen 3 synths may be virtually indistinguishable from real humans, but some things are not perfected. In fact, their brains don't work exactly the same as a human brain. They can be memory-wiped and controlled, personalities and memories uploaded, and when they're killed, they leave a Synth Component, so their brains are different and cybernetic in nature. Since their brains are different, one could say they just haven't perfected how to artificially construct a fully functioning organic human brain. Part of a human brain is the pituitary gland, responsible for production of human growth hormone among many other things. Could be this cybernetic brain just doesn't have a completely functioning pituitary gland so therefore they're not able to fully emulate human growth and development. Of course, it's just a game so I doubt they'd go to that level of detail.

 

Deacon's use of the word "bigot" is probably appropriate given he thinks synths are human. A definition of bigot is, "a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race". Since Deacon now thinks synths are human, they would be like another race of human, so it would make sense that he'd think his past intolerance of them made him a bigot.

[jjb54]

Humans can have memory wipes / implants too. Some induced and some not.

 

IE: Back in 2003, I was in an accident that caused permanent amnesia. I lost 40 years of my life. Now, that was over 10 years ago, so now, it's not a big deal ... it is what it is and life happens.

 

But ...Pre-JJ ... I did not like Peanut Butter Sandwiches. Apparently I had a childhood trauma with peanut butter. But now - they are okay, I neither really like them or dislike them. There were other personality and such difference too.

 

I also know where people in the military had memory implants and such, that were not theirs and it had to be settled "out of court and all parties had to sign an NDA."

 

So humans can have "memory wipes and implants". We just do not have the Memory Den, shades of TOTAL RECALL. :wink:

[mkborgelt13]

From:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Shaun_(synth)

 

 

 

Overhearing conversations within the Institute reveals that Shaun cannot grow up and age like a normal human, and thus will remain a child forever.

 

 

 

So here is the question. I had heard this in the game and could not get the dialog again. But I found it confirmed in the above site.

 

So would it be "moral" - "ethical" to allow Synth Shaun to stay alive; knowing that he will NEVER be 11 years old - 15 years old - a grown man?

 

Would even the Railroad have to ponder this?

 

At what point would Synth Shaun want to be "killed"?

 

This "plot" never made sense to me. Why create a kid that would forever be a kid?

 

 

That is a consequence of their gen 3 synths, none of them age, not even if they are a child-synth.

 

That all depends on Shaun's mental state. Is he aware of what he is? Will his mind age and develop past adolesence? There is a similar problem in an Anne Rice book, with a character called Claudia. It was rather sad.

 

I think the sole survivor ought to sit down with Shaun and explain things to him, what he is, so on, so it will not be a massive surprise when he starts to wonder why he is not aging...