Imperial VS Stormcloak

[RighthandofSithis]

For a start, when you say there are a lot of 'mights', are you implying that you can easily predict the future? I don't think so. The future will always have a lot of mights, regardless of the outcome of Skyrim's civil war.

 

Um... Did i state, through implication or otherwise, that i knew the future? No. I even went so far as to indicate that there were also 'mights' when looking at the Empire. My point one in referance to Occum's Razor. The option which requires the least number of asumptions is usually the correct one. In this case, the choice with the fewest number of 'mights' required to acheive the desired outcome (in this case the defeat of the Thalmor) is the most reliable. If you you disgard that basic reasoning you may as well just rely on the Akiviri or the Sload to come up and take out the Thalmor for you.

 

Secondly, yes Hammerfell originally fought the Dominion with a large number of legionaries, but after twenty years of independence, they would have rebuilt their own armies (keeping in mind, Redguard culture demands all male youth to join the army, or die trying). And when you think about it, how many Legionaries could have been spared. For Decianus' armies to have had any success in Cyrodiil, they would have needed a large number of soldiers.

 

First, Decianus. If we assume an Imperial Legion is roughly aproximating a Roman Legion, we can assume 5-6 thousand Legionaries, plus about 4000 auxilaries (cavalry, archers, etc). We are told that the Legionaries left behind formed the core of Hammerfells army in the continueing war against the Domminion (and that they took the brunt of the casualties). As such, Decianus would have had to have dissmissed a sizeable number of troops, though i agree that he had to maintain a certian functionality of his own force. That said, he was a pittance of the contribution to the Battle of the Red Ring, commanding only a single legion, so success was hardly resting on his shoulders. I'd be surprised if he dissmissed more than a thrid of his legion, and suspect it to be considerably less, probably a fifth. Still, that would ammount to 2000 men from a full legion.

 

Thirdly, it was the War of Succession when the Jarls fought amongst themselves. That ended several eras ago. Yes, Skyrim was never as strong as she was before, but Ulfric would would make Skyrim considerably more stable. And as it is an established fact that Ulfric is power hungry (I'm not going to contest). This would be proof that he would rebuild Skyrim, as he would assert his own power over the Jarls (Which either side does anyway) and expand his own strength.

 

The War of Sucession happened in the dull mists of time, and i personally find it hard to beleive that this is what Balgruf is talking about. It is possible, i suppose, but the context in which he makes his statement impllies that conflict between Jarls was a common occurance rather than a one off even that happened thousands of years ago.

 

Fourthly, Tamrielic humans would unite against the Thalmor. Common enemies.

 

History says otherwise. Talos had to subjugate most of the human nations in order to turn them on the first Domminion. Highrock and Skyrim have shown themselves to be more than content to war against eachother even when there are greater threats to deal with. Really, the only instance we have in the history of species uniting against a common enemy is when the Chimer and Dwemer united against the Nords.

 

 

As much as i can see the potential for your proposed outcome, the chances are remote at best. It's only slightly more likely than Vivec popping back into reality and finger-snapping the Thalmor out of existance. It hinges on too many uncertianties which have been shown, historically, to be unlikely. Yes, it COULD happen, and could end up with a bigger payoff in the end, but the Empire is the more reliable bet. Its like betting on a game with 50:1 odds. Yeah, you COULD make a killing, but the chances aren't good.

 

@ Terzho

 

Actually, Valenwood has definately shown in lore that it would rather the Empire. It has been subjected to ethnic clensing by the hands of the Thalmor since they took over, and many Bosmer have fled rather than be executed. The same can be said for the Summerset Isles.

 

I'd disagree. Humanity would unite against the Thalmor. I have never seen any indication that the human races had any reason to hate the first Aldmeri Dominion, for any reasons other than political ones (And I have seen no evidence that any state other than the Empire had any political hatred against the Dominion). And even if they did, they never actually had a serious war (And thus a reson to unite) until after Talos defeated them (and when I say defeat, Skyrim almost willing joined Talos, the redguards requested assistance, Morrowind sued for peace and Black Marsh was never really conquored). And historically yes, the people of Tamriel have united against a common enemy. Reman united cyrodiil and Morrowind at least (most likly more than just cyrodiil and Morrowind) against the Akaviri invasion.

 

However, after the Great War, people had developed a personal hatred, and many kingdoms developed political hatreds, against the Thalmor. Thus they would have a reason to unite and more than likly would put aside their differences.

 

And look at WW2. The Western Allies and the USSR hated each other, but united against the Fascist threat. They were even spying against each other during WW2 and a few weeks after the end of WW2, the Cold War started.

 

And my comments still stand that Ulfric would unite Skyrim and Hammerfell could easily have rebuilt itself.

 

And here are some serious mights for the Empire.

Will the Empire still survive? They have been falling for the past 200 years.

Will the Empire present a capable force to comabt the Thalmor? They could only sue for peace when they where strong, now that Hammerfell has left and they have had to divert their "much needed resources" (Gen. Tullius) to Skyrim (which is considered a minor conflict in Cyrodiil).

[Dambuster]

The west and the USSR did not hate eachother as strongly pre col war and their unification was not really out of common hatred of the Nazi's it was far more down to Hitler's decision to invade the USSR while already at war with the west before this they were bound by a non-aggression treaty, anyway sorry to nitpick not really the issue here.

As someone recently posted Ulfric is power hungry and I believe he is pretty racist - these are not the qualities of a leader who will create a strong Skyrim. Admittedly Skyrim is about 70-80% Nord in population but there are many other races present who will be totally alienated under Ulfric's control, Ulfric will also alienate Skyrim from the support of the other countries. The diplomatic skill of the Imperial empire (though quite lacking in their handling of the civil war) is what keeps the empire together without it wars are bound to erupt between the provinces. In my opinion the Thalmor will inevitably be defeated so the real question is what happens to a post dominion Tamriel if the Empire is left intact we can expect a period of peace driven by diplomacy and the free sharing of assets between the provinces. If a 'human alliance' defeats the Thalmor do you really think that is going to be the end of war? It seems most likely Hammerfell and Skyrim will fight for supremacy with Blackmarsh in a very strong position and Morrowind, High Rock, Elseweyr and Valenwood as slightly less powerful contenders. Without a united empire I see the end of a second great war beginning a much harsher war for control of Tamriel.

[sagitel]

but your the last dragonborn and you have the support of the blades, companions, DB and so on.(although they dont have much power outside skyrim but having their support can help you conquer skyrim and have a firm foothold from there) so i think ib the next part you will be trying to end the conflict and unit tamriel. and for this cause i say joining stromcloacks would help you more to be this warrior who comes, conquers and unite. like talos or reman cyrodiil.

[RighthandofSithis]

When you say the USSR and the West didn't hate each other before the Cold War, why were they spying on each other during meetings? And the First Red Scare? The interventions in the Russian Civil War? There is actually evidence that the US supported the Nazis because they acted as a bulwark against communism (and they also disagreed with the clause in the Treaty of Versailles that limited Germany's armed forces for that reason).

 

When I said the Fascist threat, I meant the Nazis were attacking both sides.

Edited February 9, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[ell46]

I've played both and to be honest I think they are as bad as each other, but out of the two I prefer the stormcloaks purely because I hate the Thalmor and it's brilliant now I don't have to see that arrogant trio parading up and down in the Markarth palace place.

[Dambuster]

I went Imperial but just killed those Thalmor.

[thufir67]

As a Breton archer, I have little patience for Nord nationalism, and as Dragonborn, I have resolved to maintain the legacy of that bloodline. I have chosen a kind of chaotic neutral position in the role-play of the game, and following the legacy track, the Empire would be the appropriate tool for all of Tamriel. The Thalmor can bite me, but to maintain a face of obedieince puts them off their guard, providing a false sense of security as an icing on their cake of superiority complex. They must feel untouchable enough to shock them into submission after they are drawn in so far that they must surrender or die. Feeding the Nord nationalism by supporting Ulfric initially would allow tables to be turned on both enemies once each is secure with their sphere's of influence.

Ulfric is the pawn of the Thalmor, and the Empire seems to paint themselves thus. The Dragonborn can establish his/her own power base outside of the nationalistic vein spurred on by hatred of the Thalmor, and of everyone non-Nord. Nord or not, the Dragonborn could hold a reputation beyond that of warlord, and if that Dragonborn was universal Thane, that is Thane in every Hold, he/she is elevated above the Jarls since there are no borders to his recognition. At that point, rallying each counrty, Skyrim, Cyrodill, and Non-Altmer elves to the offensive against the Altmer may build itself the momentum to succeed.

Maybe I have talked myself into my first mod: The Quest for the Tamriel Dragonborn Republic.

 

~~~~~!---\/- e're...

[dartmaul15]

to decide we need to look into the history, and be paranoid. originally there was 8 "things" who protected man from extinction. 1 was the amulet of king, and 1 was the heart og lorkhan. 1 is troath of the world (the mountain) 1 is believed to be the orb in the dwarven riun (mzulf i think. the giant cave with al the mushroms). the remaining 4 (which i can't recall the name of) is also destroyed. this means that the only 2 remaining "things" perventing the thalmor from reaching their goal of wiping out the humans lie in skyrim. if you don't believe me, then go read the lore.

 

conclution: skyrim needs a powerfull standing army capable of both providing a frontline against a potentiall thalmor attack AND an available army ready to march in and save the day. the stormcoaks got a standing force, but the imperials got an army in cyrodiil. the ideal would be an alliance (and it can be forged if you keep on playing the mq WITHOUT taking sides, but that is just boring), but that is highly unlikely. the empire has the manpower to provide BOTH a standing force, and an army at alert.

this makes the imperials best when only looking at the military part.

 

you also got their ideals to look at. both hate the thamor (the empire only signed the treaty in order to survive), but that is about it. the thalmor hate you no matter what you chouse, and there is no problem by killin them whenever you meet them.

 

Stormcloaks: a bunch of racist nords having taken up arms against the empire. they hate anyone not being a nord. they only want to have skyrim as a free country. they do not care about the other provinces, or politics in general. this makes it hard for them to get help from other races. they value the traditional nordic ways of doing it. that means "if it does not do as we say, then killl it". they appear eager, but it is not known what wil happen when they win. wil the go on a rampage, or wil they fade into oblivion?

 

Imperials: fights for peace. seems to be on the side of the thalmor, but are just pretending to. truth is, if they had the chance, and the manpower, to wipe out the thalmor they would do so. they want a strict society with clear laws. they don't hate the stormcloaks, they just see it as a duty to fight them. the imperials got good connections arround tamriel, and most people would suport them if they manage to "free" them from the thalmor.

 

this makes the imperials the best choise if you hate the thalmor, and want skyrim to be free (at least as free as it can get in the long run). i have not taken personal preferences into account.

 

ho and... the khajiit ar FORCED to follow the thalor. they would easily join the impeials if elesweyr were to be liberated. this would not happen if the nords did it.

Edited February 9, 2012 by dartmaul15

[StanIsTheLaw]

I chose nuetral at the start but the more I get into it, the more I lean towards Imperials. The lesser of 2 evils. Lot of racist undertones in the game (not complaining, realistic), and the Nords come across bit like Nazis.

 

Think I will go Imperial after main quest line is finished.

[xiaoxin20]

Well, it is quite funny to join the Imperial after I just kill the emperor and dress like him.

General Tullius should be like "WTF..."

o_O

Edited February 11, 2012 by xiaoxin20