Is Fallout 4 Modding Scene Dead ?

[AGreatWeight]

 

Oh, such great arrogance you have! For your information, not only am I working on some mods of my own, but I am also working with a colleague on a wiki over on the STEP forum to make modding a smoother process to those people who are wanting to jump back in (or for the first time if they waited for all the DLC to come out). In fact, what drove me to do those things is in part because I wanted to dive back in now that all the DLC was out. So my enthusiasm for the game and its content has not waned. Also if you really believe that it's alive and "well", then you are delusional. While I certainly think (and hope) that modding will return to normal, you can't deny the negative impact that all the drama has brought into not just the fallout modding community, but the overall landscape it said. I don't see those people that were burnt by everything that's occurred to suddenly jump into the pool whenever the next Elder Scrolls game comes out (modding wise I mean).

 

Perhaps this conversation has been talked to death on the forums, but I haven't because I have things to do and don't get to check the forums as often as apparently, you do. So if these topics really bother you, then please don't post. You are just wasting your time and mine. But as a suggestion, I'd pull that head of out the sand if I were you; it's a good way to get suffocated.

 

Everything you cite does not add up to a scenario where modding is dying, which appears to be the crux of your argument.

Negative impact of Bethesda's lack of forethought with regard to implimenting safeguards to mod authors work whilst showing ignorance tackling mod 'theft' does not mean modding is dying, it just means Bethesda are incompetent.

Some mod authors jumping ship or hiding their mods does not mean modding is dying, it just means they feel they have no other choice at the moment, or that their passion has been soured by recent events.

Yet you choose to call me delusional?

Your working on some mods yourself, good for you and welcome aboard. I'll happily take back 'Funny how it's always those who aren't actually mod authors themselves who ask this question' but I stand by my other comments as you've done nothing to convince me that your not putting two and two together and getting five.

Judging from your response, I'm inclined to believe that wolfard88 was correct in his interpretation.

Edited September 22, 2016 by AGreatWeight

[mkborgelt13]

@Aerdom,

 

Yes it's true that the Ckit's fundamentals have really not changed since Morrowind, however modding FO4 is a lot more complicated. A lot has changed and the game itself isn't as accommodating when it comes to mods working together. One example is how the game is optimized with the Pre-combined meshes and visibility, I won't even get into the Dialogue system and voiced protagonist which has more then likely put off many quest modders.

 

 

CK has only gotten better, in my opinion. Layers are great. Keywords are amazingly useful. "Filter" input boxes with regular expression support are extremely useful.

 

I was confused at first by how abstracted some things are (armor addon -> armor -> levelled item -> outfit) but this design choice seems logical to me now.

 

The script manager could be better, but it works.

[chucksteel]

Wasn't complaining about the Ckit and I agree it's only gotten better. Sometimes people sound like they are saying "You guys have been using this since Morrowind, GET TO WORK!" :verymad: My real point is it's different and there is a "learning curve".

[Arthmoor]

I genuinely don't understand what makes Fallout 4 so much more difficult to mod than Skyrim. It would be one thing if it were a completely new engine with new tools. But from my understanding (mostly heading modders complaining mind you), the CK is fundamentally unchanged since I believe Oblivion? In fact, if I'm correct, isn't parts of it going all the way back to Morrowind? So when I hear people talking about how now they can't do this or that, in the case of the UFOP team, I'm not sure what's changed.

It isn't really the CK in and of itself that's at issue. At a basic level, it works like it did all the way back to Morrowind. Later games simply added more advanced features to it to support them as the company needed them.

 

Someone coming over from Skyrim will have minimal issues with the new workflow. People coming in from games older than that will be in for the shock of their lives. :tongue:

 

The problems we've been facing on the UFO4P are more the result of fighting against the underlying engine. The precombined visuals system being the largest issue which was stopping us from doing the more nitpicky stuff. That also impacts people working on big exterior mods or trying to remodel existing interiors too. Patch 1.7 should have addressed this enough to remove the roadblock though. That's only a month old so a lot of people don't seem aware it's been dealt with yet.

 

Dialogue systems are also much more complicated since everything is a scene and you need multiple scene in some cases to string conversations together. Further complicated by needing a voice for the player. Fortunately for the UFO4P that's largely not an issue, but for new mods it certainly is. People HATE silent voice mods in Skyrim, they're not going to be any more receptive to silent player in Fallout 4.

 

Haven't really got the hang of layers yet either so I have no idea what the actual impact from those is or if it's literally just a way to separate info in the CK while working.

 

My biggest problem though seems to be that trying to work on an exterior cell is horribly slow. Load times totally suck, and the render window seems to be stuck at 10fps no matter what. Which is just bad because it becomes unresponsive.

 

We've got a list of known engine bugs that impede modding in some way here: http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/topic/4438-fallout-4-known-engine-bugs/ Most have been fixed, most of which had no indication in changelogs that they had been but were later tested for and confirmed to be gone now.

 

I think once they settle down and aren't patching anymore, the community will stabilize and pick up pace a bit. Don't ever expect it to be as crazy as Skyrim though.

[chucksteel]

Arthmoor, if your familiar with Photoshop and I assume you are. :tongue: Then you already understand the layer system. It's a way of enabling and disabling refs, just like you would disable a layer while editing in Photoshop.

 

disabling layers also helps with performance because the render window has less ref's to draw.

 

some cells and areas have better layers set up then others but if your already used to working with Photoshop layers then it shouldn't be hard to get the hang of.

[Malphisto001]

JuiceHead made a video about this on his youtube channel where he asked the same thing.

I've been quietly reading through various threads and checking out mods on both Nexus and Bethesda.net, and in my honest opinion I don't really see why some think modding is dying out. At least from my perspective, it seems rather healthy.

 

I'm not a modder, but I am an Indie Dev so maybe I can contribute a bit to this conversation. There are many similarities between the two.

 

From my own personal experience, this kind of stuff is time consuming. I've been working on my project for years now and there have been plenty of roadblocks for me. For example, I apparently have no artistic ability whatsoever. My strength lies more in story writing, so the game itself looks pretty damn retro. (My computer isn't exactly all that good, either) Which I'm fine with because hey, its a passion project. Something I do in my spare time. It basically looks like Ultima 3: Exodus for the NES. (Which still remains one of my Top 10 RPGs of all time, despite the graphics compared to more modern games) I was going to college for Game Design but life ended up happening and well, yeah. s#*! happens.

 

That being said, I'm sure its no different for Mod Authors. Life comes first. And in that regard? You "could" attribute this lull in released content to the ever degrading state of the economy. At least for those of us in the United States. This country has been going to hell in a hand basket.

 

Another issue could be lack of incentive. Some friends of mine from class were working on projects as well and last I heard, most of them had been cancelled or put on hold until further notice. They were putting way more in than they felt they were going to be getting back. I think a couple of them were looking into Steam Green Light, but I don't know what ever became of them.

 

In my opinion, I would love to see modders getting paid for their work. Any opportunity to get paid doing what you enjoy? We need more of those, ya know?

And I think of it in terms of how the Youtube Community has come along over the years and how content creators on there have been able to make a living with their channels. It also takes a great deal of time and effort to work up to that, obviously, but there is loads of real potential with a system like that. Imagine creating a mod and uploading it to a site. For every view the mod page receives, the author makes money from it. This would require the site in question to function off of ad revenue. Donations are great as well, but the income from ads opens up whole other avenues and new opportunities within the industry itself.

 

I disagreed with the way in which Valve tried to handle monetizing mods, though. There's a right and wrong way to go about handling this matter.

 

Mods coming over to Console is a rather big deal for a number of reasons. Not just because its bridging the gap between two platforms which have spent years divided from one another, but because of the possibilities it presents for the future.

 

The important thing to remember is to always move forward and keep striving for a better tomorrow. There will always be those looking to create problems and stir up conflict, because trolls will be trolls. Bare in mind, the vast majority of Console Gamers are typically ignorant when it comes to the various problems like Mod Thefts and such. One can't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.

 

Hopefully this post helped a bit.

[RS13]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/maxwells-world
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16423/?

 

It's dead. Like so dead. Like OMG dead.

[yourenotsupposedtobeinhere]

Skyrim's release date 11/11/11

Moonpath to Elsewyr Added: 15/02/2012 3ish months

The Dark Brotherhood Resurrection Added: 24/10/2012 11 months

Maids II - Deception Added: 28/04/2012 5 months

Levelers Tower Added: 01/04/2012 5 months

Vilja in Skyrim Added: 03/11/2012 11 months

 

I should also mention that Skyrim still has more active players that have stayed at around 20k - 40k daily Fallout 4 has been fluctuating with recent DLC, but on average there is any where from 1000 to 5000 less people playing Fallout 4 and the numbers seem to be dropping for Fallout 4 where Skyrim's haven't changed in the last 2-3 years.

[Arthmoor]

Arthmoor, if your familiar with Photoshop and I assume you are.

lol, I'm actually not. I can't texture to save a life. :tongue:

[RS13]

Skyrim's release date 11/11/11

Moonpath to Elsewyr Added: 15/02/2012 3ish months

The Dark Brotherhood Resurrection Added: 24/10/2012 11 months

Maids II - Deception Added: 28/04/2012 5 months

Levelers Tower Added: 01/04/2012 5 months

Vilja in Skyrim Added: 03/11/2012 11 months

 

I think that list proves exactly how desperate people are to say the scene is dying.