LE Teeny Bops on Skyrim Nexus

[Ghogiel]

Are the users not allowed to say these are pointless or harmful?

 

By the rules, it needs to be considered constructive. Simply saying something is pointless is basically considered mod author trolling on this site. I think there might not even be a way to justify a 'this mod is pointless because..' type comment.

Warning others it might be harmful should be fine, unless it is already stated in the description or something that it does fubars their save games or otherwise does harm, then you might be just be trolling a moot point. imo the mod comments isn't the big boy part of the website :rolleyes:

 

I have been restricted in the past, not banned but "restricted", because I was giving advice to someone I talked to a number of times before. Why? I was accused of being arrogant and abrasive. No warning, nothing. And what happened with the person I was supposedly being abrasive with? He had PMed me the same day thanking me for the advice. I was restricted because I didn't just say, "tihs is teh best mod evar"... blowing smoke never helped anyone.

Pretty much why I never ever comment in the mod release threads ever any more. If someone wants critique or advice, they can be in the mod forums where modders are doing their thing, if they ask for it.. then they can't complain when they get it :biggrin: .

I have had a couple times modders get jumpy with me because I have mentioned they could do say, something as simple as resave their diffuse map as a DXT1, dropping that blank white alpha channel eating up vram... Probably because they are dealing with moron comments and I'm getting in the crossfire. Nothing serious, all that is sorted and water under the bridge. Basically I've written that whole section off for everything critique wise.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Ghogiel

[Vagrant0]

The problem here is that any negative comments are being regarded as trolling. If a person has done something wrong, or their mod just plain sucks, for whatever reason, people should be allowed to express their opinions without fear of being punished... this is not the special olympics, where everyone is an equal happy loving winner no matter what. I've seen things from pointless mods to downright harmful mods uploaded. Are the users not allowed to say these are pointless or harmful?

 

I have been restricted in the past, not banned but "restricted", because I was giving advice to someone I talked to a number of times before. Why? I was accused of being arrogant and abrasive. No warning, nothing. And what happened with the person I was supposedly being abrasive with? He had PMed me the same day thanking me for the advice. I was restricted because I didn't just say, "tihs is teh best mod evar"... blowing smoke never helped anyone.

 

"This mod sucks" is not a good critique. "This upload is a waste of space" is not a good one either.

 

It isn't that all negative comments are trolling, just that the vast majority are and that almost always that negativity is the entire post. Do you walk down the street telling people to their face that they're ugly, stupid, or look like they bought their clothes from the discount rack at Target? Would you expect comments like that to be appreciated in any light, even when it's probably true? Even if the comments aren't personally directed at them such as "Your car looks like a piece of s***". or "Your dog is gay". The comment probably wouldn't be well received. There is a difference between constructive criticism and veiling an insult in pleasantries. If all you are doing is insulting someone, there is no reason to post.

 

By what right do you have to say what is and is not a worthwhile mod. It may not be worthwhile to you, but there may still be people who would like that sort of thing. You aren't hosting those files, you are not paying to have them hosted, their existence doesn't affect you one way or another beyond your own personal dislike for whatever it is. If it's actually harmful, there is a way to report those mods. For everything else, it is not your decision what is and is not acceptable.

 

We expect ALL persons to be respectful towards uploaders, regardless what is uploaded. Just because you don't care if someone calls your mod "The biggest piece of s*** on the site and an utter waste of their time to even read the description", does not mean that everyone shares that view or looks so kindly to their hard work being insulted. You wouldn't walk into a gallery and tell an artist that all his work is contrived and unimaginative because it would not only be disrespectful to his work, but it would also do absolutely nothing towards making it better.

 

 

That said, there are always allowances given for quality CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. You don't have to say "this mod is good", you just have to show some effort towards respecting the work that was done. Arguing with the uploader, insulting them, TELLING them how to make their mod better is not constructive. The reason why the general feeling of having to be only positive in your comments exists is that very rarely people can be respectful when they dislike a mod. It is not a problem with negative comments, it is a problem of disrespectful comments where someone feels they're entitled to say whatever they want without regard for the person those comments are directed to. THIS is why those users are removed from the site, and more often than not, those sorts of people never have anything worthwhile to contribute themselves.

 

Moderators handle every comment reported individually, on their own merits. Sometimes the comment is just removed, sometimes the report is ignored since the comment wasn't without a little truth and effort. Usually though, it's just trolling, flaming, or insults.

[Shantih]

I agree with you guys but I don't think that it's what clintmich is criticizing.

 

It's not a question of criticism but more a question of pure trolling. What is the point in anyone posting "this mod sucks" or "I don't like what you did" or some other useless comment. Venting one's prejudices, feeling self entitled to berate a modder because the mod doesn't match a player's subjective standards is not conducive to improving mods.

 

Some users can't help posting things like that and I think you will agree that there is nothing constructive about such an attitude.

 

Criticism is good as long as it is helpful and allows for improvement. Of course when you're criticizing something it's going to be negative but there is a question of degrees. Sheer negativity (as in being negative for the sake of it) is however detrimental. After all modding is supposed to be fun.

 

Also regarding your example Mr Dave I think it's obviously a communication problem. I remember reading many of your comments on the Nexus and I've often found them interesting and valuable. I'm not criticizing the feedback process I think we all agree that it's not the valuable criticism that is in question here.

[Ghogiel]

TELLING them how to make their mod better is not constructive.

So it's not constructive if you tell someone how to make their mod better? I beg to differ on that point. How else are you going to tell them besides to tell them. And the goal is to make the mod better.. That's constructive imo. If you were being negative you would just STFU about it. It's not like you are ever in the position to be forcing them to even listen.

[Shantih]

TELLING them how to make their mod better is not constructive.

So it's not constructive if you tell someone how to make their mod better? I beg to differ on that point. How else are you going to tell them besides to tell them. And the goal is to make the mod better.. That's constructive imo. If you were being negative you would just STFU about it. It's not like you are ever in the position to be forcing them to even listen.

 

I think that what is implied (but I may be wrong) is that you should "suggest" rather than "tell" since telling can also be understood as ordering somebody around (especially since Vagrant0 has used capital letters in his post).

[Ghogiel]

What I am saying is that both are constructive.

[Vagrant0]

What I am saying is that both are constructive.

Not if it carries the tone of "I don't like you mod, here is how I want it done" or "You did everything wrong". People don't like being told what they should do with their mods any more than they like being told that they can't do something the way they're doing it. If the message is not in a tone of suggestion more often than not there is resistance to that message, even when it is right; so it stops being constructive. Often, telling someone to change their file formats, how they should package their mods, what settings to use, or even how to make their scripts work better only ends up making that person refuse that opinion. Suggestions are better since the person has an implied choice regarding if they want to follow through or not. When telling someone to make a change, you are implying that they do not have a choice and that any opinion they might have on that matter is meaningless.

[Cotozic]

Well, I think people need to also understand that mods aren't too easy to make at the moment. There is no Creation Kit at this time, so only retextures, new meshes, and complicated .esp files are out there. The new flow of people I guess just comes with a popular game like Skyrim. I wasn't here at the time Oblivion opened here on the Nexus, but I was here for the Fallouts,and now this. Skyrim seems to have a much more massive base of players, who I'm noticing a lot of them (especially on consoles) haven't even played Oblivion. I guess we're dealing with new trolls and misfits.

 

I guess I'll take this as a warning though, even though I don't really share anything but pictures and mods I make with the Construction Set (which isn't out yet, and I'm bad at creating nice new models and textures). Luckily I haven't had much of a problem with the one mod I posted back for F3, so things must be different.

 

Being polite is always the best thing. I won't fix a mod if some person seems to be forcing me.

[nosisab]

make sure your critics is constructive, don't use subjective parameters and it will be accepted.

 

No, is not forbidden to make "negative" comments but never on the ground "I" don't like the work, as example of a valid (non thanking) comment would be reporting a game breaking bug or something in that line, yet does not harm being polite and just report the found bug without going for the childish ranting.

 

The game is too new and came with serious bugs in itself, at the point is hard to say where the real guilt is. Besides it is going to pass for some serious patching until stabilizing and some mods may stop working then and maybe even stopping the game, the author must be informed his mod need to adapt to the changes, nothing more than this is acceptable.

 

The point is even when to point issues the comment should never be negative but objective.

Edited December 12, 2011 by nosisab

[Ghogiel]

What I am saying is that both are constructive.

Not if it carries the tone of "I don't like you mod, here is how I want it done" or "You did everything wrong". People don't like being told what they should do with their mods any more than they like being told that they can't do something the way they're doing it. If the message is not in a tone of suggestion more often than not there is resistance to that message, even when it is right; so it stops being constructive. Often, telling someone to change their file formats, how they should package their mods, what settings to use, or even how to make their scripts work better only ends up making that person refuse that opinion. Suggestions are better since the person has an implied choice regarding if they want to follow through or not. When telling someone to make a change, you are implying that they do not have a choice and that any opinion they might have on that matter is meaningless.

It's still constructive, you can start with stating facts, you can start with saying I suggest you fix X Y or Z, or you can say do this, this and this and your mod will be better. "I don't like you mod, here is how I want it done" or "You did everything wrong" isn't telling anything and not what I'm on about.