Skyrim - Not the next generation RPG

[Artistdude05]

Stop being ignorant, seriously.

 

I like how I'm not allowed to have an opinion on my own fun. Just because a lot of hard work went into it doesn't mean it's the greatest thing ever.

 

But all of that aside I liked it, even though a lot of things felt a little off. While I have no doubt modders will be able to fix a lot of the problems or even improve on things, the point is it's not too much of a drastic leap forward compared to Oblivion. They streamlined some things, made a better engine, and such but it doesn't feel like it'll set an industry standard. Still I put in close to 100 hours on the game so it's fun and that's all that really matters.

 

Also thank god it's not online. I couldn't imagine Skyrim as an MMO, specially since I just weaned myself off of one recently.

[nitevision92]

catacombs and dungeons so large you could get lost (random computer generated would be best)

I wouldn HATE getting lost in one of those. As it is, I'm already having a fairly hard time navigating Dwemer ruins.

 

They could do something like Left 4 Dead 2. Multiple paths available, with randomly blocked routes- fire, cave-in etc. The system decides which routes to block when it loads the cell for the first time (but always leaves 1 main route and probably 1 alternate free), and it stays that way till the end of time (fires may burn out though). Or we could even have random cave-ins and barriers that completely restrict access once the player exits. It'd be much better than the painfully linear dungeons we have today.

 

Imagine returing to a cave to retrieve some loot, only to find out it's been completely flooded from last time. Hope you brought an Elixir of Waterbreathing...

Edited December 13, 2011 by nitevision92

[Rennn]

Maybe a mod could implement something like the original Red Faction's destruction? It was on the ps2, so it shouldn't have much of an effect on framerate even in an open world game. Not only that, but it was very modular in style. It might require a totally devoted engine though, which would make it impossible, but I think it's worth a look.

[xorchan]

To do that, you'd have to not only model all of the environment in the game (Which spans 15 or 25 miles) but ANIMATE a destruction sequence and make an end-result model.

 

Err, no. That would be quite silly-looking ingame. Modern destructible environments are almost always done via physics/materials libraries. The real hurdle to implementing this is (aside from the performance) the AI and immersion barriers.

 

But the rest of what you posted is generally accurate. None of these three suggestions make any sense whatsoever.

[RenownedWolfman]

To do that, you'd have to not only model all of the environment in the game (Which spans 15 or 25 miles) but ANIMATE a destruction sequence and make an end-result model.

 

Err, no. That would be quite silly-looking ingame. Modern destructible environments are almost always done via physics/materials libraries. The real hurdle to implementing this is (aside from the performance) the AI and immersion barriers.

 

 

Your quite right there any person with the right software can make a model of a building into a destructible model of that same building in 3 minutes. (for something basic such as making it fall apart, this doesn't include what makes it fall apart, just that it can.)

[gigantibyte]

Lol, so many naysayers on my conceptual next generation rpg I thought I should clarify.

 

1. On NPCs. Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, etc., hold your hand when it comes to conversing. Sure there are different reply options (sometimes), but no amount of thought must given to figuring out what topic to bring up. I remember and older RPG (I think it was one of the early Ultima games) where the player would collect a growing list of keywords that could be used on any NPC. If an NPC was clueless about a certain subject, they would still reply with something like "I don't know anything about [x]" or "Talk to [y], he might know about [x]". This kind of dialog was possible back then because it was all text, and doing something similar with voice acting today would be impracticable. That's why my conceptual game would have voice simulation. It would not sound as good, but it would allow for more conversation options, especially when combined with the chat bot technology we already have. We would not care that the voices sounded computer generated, the same way we accept inferior-to-reality graphics - because it's a game, and it gives us options and possibilities we would not normally have in real life.

 

 

2. On environments. Not a Minecraft/Legoland RPG (though that might be cool too), but not as stiff and more "alive" than Skyrim. If not 100% destructible, how about simple things like ground that cratered and had footprints (if only temporarily), trees that shook when hit or even fell, and tables and barrels that were not glued to the ground. What might be cool too is if there were sim style NPCs that actively worked the land and changed it over time.

 

 

3. On dungeons. This:

 

They could do something like Left 4 Dead 2. Multiple paths available, with randomly blocked routes- fire, cave-in etc. The system decides which routes to block when it loads the cell for the first time (but always leaves 1 main route and probably 1 alternate free), and it stays that way till the end of time (fires may burn out though). Or we could even have random cave-ins and barriers that completely restrict access once the player exits. It'd be much better than the painfully linear dungeons we have today.

Imagine returing to a cave to retrieve some loot, only to find out it's been completely flooded from last time. Hope you brought an Elixir of Waterbreathing...

 

Plenty of games with randomly generated indoor maps (like Nosferatu: The Wrath of Malachi). I'm confident something decent could be done. And the computer made dungeons would only compliment, not replace, those customized by game designers.

 

And why stop at dungeons and caves? Why can't the entire world map be computer generated? Think something like Tropico or Civilization, but on a larger scale with randomly placed locations. We have powerful enough computers today and I would not care if the map took hours to create. It would only need to be compiled once.

 

 

4. I never meant to imply multi-play. The game would remain single player, but the character would have access to an online trading place where normal gameplay would not be possible. It might make certain crafting skills more worthwhile. Cheating might happen, but that's already possible easily with the console anyway. Just meet with people you trust, and going online would be entirely optional.

[Tardivex]

Lol, so many naysayers on my conceptual next generation rpg I thought I should clarify.

 

1. On NPCs. Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, etc., hold your hand when it comes to conversing. Sure there are different reply options (sometimes), but no amount of thought must given to figuring out what topic to bring up. I remember and older RPG (I think it was one of the early Ultima games) where the player would collect a growing list of keywords that could be used on any NPC. If an NPC was clueless about a certain subject, they would still reply with something like "I don't know anything about [x]" or "Talk to [y], he might know about [x]". This kind of dialog was possible back then because it was all text, and doing something similar with voice acting today would be impracticable. That's why my conceptual game would have voice simulation. It would not sound as good, but it would allow for more conversation options, especially when combined with the chat bot technology we already have. We would not care that the voices sounded computer generated, the same way we accept inferior-to-reality graphics - because it's a game, and it gives us options and possibilities we would not normally have in real life.

 

 

2. On environments. Not a Minecraft/Legoland RPG (though that might be cool too), but not as stiff and more "alive" than Skyrim. If not 100% destructible, how about simple things like ground that cratered and had footprints (if only temporarily), trees that shook when hit or even fell, and tables and barrels that were not glued to the ground. What might be cool too is if there were sim style NPCs that actively worked the land and changed it over time.

 

 

3. On dungeons. This:

 

They could do something like Left 4 Dead 2. Multiple paths available, with randomly blocked routes- fire, cave-in etc. The system decides which routes to block when it loads the cell for the first time (but always leaves 1 main route and probably 1 alternate free), and it stays that way till the end of time (fires may burn out though). Or we could even have random cave-ins and barriers that completely restrict access once the player exits. It'd be much better than the painfully linear dungeons we have today.

Imagine returing to a cave to retrieve some loot, only to find out it's been completely flooded from last time. Hope you brought an Elixir of Waterbreathing...

 

Plenty of games with randomly generated indoor maps (like Nosferatu: The Wrath of Malachi). I'm confident something decent could be done. And the computer made dungeons would only compliment, not replace, those customized by game designers.

 

And why stop at dungeons and caves? Why can't the entire world map be computer generated? Think something like Tropico or Civilization, but on a larger scale with randomly placed locations. We have powerful enough computers today and I would not care if the map took hours to create. It would only need to be compiled once.

 

 

4. I never meant to imply multi-play. The game would remain single player, but the character would have access to an online trading place where normal gameplay would not be possible. It might make certain crafting skills more worthwhile. Cheating might happen, but that's already possible easily with the console anyway. Just meet with people you trust, and going online would be entirely optional.

1 - Now that clarified a lot, personally I don't think it would sound weird some voice acting of "Talk to [y], he might know about [x]", if they polish the dialogue it wouldn't sound weird, and about unlocking topics, that's very cool as well and quite possible. And meh I dunno, I prefer a good and polished voice acting rather than a "complex" computer voice or something like that.

2 - Same thing like the first one, now that clarifed a lot, 100% or even 70-80% destructble enviroments aren't all that viable in Skyrim, it would lag because the game is huge and hell, if we have to go through a loading screen to go to a city just because the consoles imagine it being destructable, the world would have to be all open with pretty much no loading screens because if you burn a house down it would be weird to enter in the burned house through a loading screen wouldn't it? Yeah consoles make lots of limitations... PC FTW!

3- Yeah I agree with dungeons but an entire map? I mean no ofense but Skyrim isn't an RTS or Minecraft, think about the quests, they aren't as great now, and the radiant thingy sucks, just imagine an entirely random generated world, the quests would suck, and there would be many problems, also, the game is called Skyrim, it's a province in Tamriel, a specific province, it isn't randomly generated, Skyrim looks the way it is (talking about city placement and landscape layout) it would kinda ruin the lore a bit with randomly generated stuff, even in Arena the locations of like Whiterun, or Windhelm are accurate to Skyrim, so yeah... And then again, to make a good experience using that would be very hard and it would take 100x more work, and you talk like "oh theres the technology so why not" yeah why not but... It's not that easy dude and if it were, wouldn't someone made something like that?

4- Trading is silly because console commands would kinda ruin it and it's a single player experience, because you could buy power or something around those lines, I don't have much of a solid argument with this online trading to be honest BUT, I just don't see it working well.

 

EDIT: Lot's of what you said seem easy on theory and again like I said, if its that easy why nobody has made "X". Simple, because it's not that easy as you think it is :confused:

Edited December 13, 2011 by Tardivex

[gigantibyte]

3- Yeah I agree with dungeons but an entire map? I mean no ofense but Skyrim isn't an RTS or Minecraft, think about the quests, they aren't as great now, and the radiant thingy sucks, just imagine an entirely random generated world, the quests would suck, and there would be many problems, also, the game is called Skyrim, it's a province in Tamriel, a specific province, it isn't randomly generated, Skyrim looks the way it is (talking about city placement and landscape layout) it would kinda ruin the lore a bit with randomly generated stuff, even in Arena the locations of like Whiterun, or Windhelm are accurate to Skyrim, so yeah... And then again, to make a good experience using that would be very hard and it would take 100x more work, and you talk like "oh theres the technology so why not" yeah why not but... It's not that easy dude and if it were, wouldn't someone made something like that?

4- Trading is silly because console commands would kinda ruin it and it's a single player experience, because you could buy power or something around those lines, I don't have much of a solid argument with this online trading to be honest BUT, I just don't see it working well.

 

EDIT: Lot's of what you said seem easy on theory and again like I said, if its that easy why nobody has made "X". Simple, because it's not that easy as you think it is :confused:

 

It's next generation, so it would not be Skyrim. In fact, it would not even have to be a province of Tamriel, where locations are known. It could just be some previously undiscovered continent on the same planet or in another dimension. I don't know why you say the quests would suck, because the main ones would not be randomly generated and similar to what they are now, only the locations where the player goes to get item [x,y,z] would change. Except for the city holds, and places atop mountains, there's not much rhyme or reason to where locations are in Skyrim now anyway. There could also be a bigger variety of random quests for fodder above the bounties that are offered in Skyrim.

 

Anyhow, I'm under no illusion such a game as I describe will be available anytime soon. :(

[minngarm]

So I'm not sorry I bought Skyrim, and after this post I'll be playing again. $60 was a great deal for what I got. However, I can't help but feel the game really hasn't advanced much in 5 years in terms of immersion, and in some regards immersion elements have been lost. l would gladly pay $200 for a game with:

 

- NPCs that responded to voice recognition and / or to non scripted topics

- Environments that were not static (trees can be chopped, new construction, houses can burn to the ground, etc.)

- catacombs and dungeons so large you could get lost (random computer generated would be best)

 

And not really about immersion, but my ideal single player rpg game would include access to an ingame but online player market to meet, chat, and trade with other players.

 

 

You basicly described Phantasy star.

[JimboUK]

So I'm not sorry I bought Skyrim, and after this post I'll be playing again. $60 was a great deal for what I got. However, I can't help but feel the game really hasn't advanced much in 5 years in terms of immersion, and in some regards immersion elements have been lost. l would gladly pay $200 for a game with:

 

- NPCs that responded to voice recognition and / or to non scripted topics

- Environments that were not static (trees can be chopped, new construction, houses can burn to the ground, etc.)

- catacombs and dungeons so large you could get lost (random computer generated would be best)

 

And not really about immersion, but my ideal single player rpg game would include access to an ingame but online player market to meet, chat, and trade with other players.

 

1. Current voice recognition isn't good enough, imagine having to say the same command over and over again until the computer got it, it would be beyond frustrating.

2. I'd like to see more in the way of destructible environments, a system like Red Faction Guerrilla would be good.

3. They done that with Daggerfall and they weren't good, a random dungeon is very unlikely to be as good as a well designed hand built one.