Do you want to make truly immersive dungeons

[pannonian]

Ok, so this is what hit me the first time I visited a crypt, playing through the game the first time, and it was kind of a turn-down for me, after battling across the frozen land in a snowstorm and entering a ruin:

 

1. First and foremost, the old crypts and dungeons should NOT have the lights on. Only the somewhat visited dungeons, like if there is a necromancer or a bunch of bandits. Otherwise they should be off, and should be put back on with a torch or a fire spell.

 

2. Get the new stuff out of there! It ruins the immersion completely!

In a crypt with daugrs and rats and only visited a hundred or more years ago, there should be no books written in the current game era. Neither carrots, cabbages, apples and imperial armor. Perhaps an older /ancient one. Rusty knives, swords and broken or almost broken bows should be only, which are not even good for use, perhaps a smith-skill focused character can collect them to melt them in. How cool would it be if some of the daugr would be using a half piece of rusty sword, trying to stab you ?

 

3. The character should not be a pack mule, trying to pick up 10 different type of swords and staffs, he or she found in 1 dungeon. Put something very rewarding somewhere there, but don't make the player try to figure out what to drop from the inventory in order to make more room for another daedric sword just laying around. It ruins its value and makes it too common thus there is no feel of being rewarded finding it. Get rid of this --"get rich fast --->visit your local dungeon"--- kinda gameplay it gets boring, especially if the player figures out, that once he got 100,000 gold after 4 hours of playing, there is no further reward for it.

 

4 . The traps and the puzzles suck.

Somebody please if modding is your hobby, make some real puzzles, not this "flip the owl-dragon-butterfly stones" -crap. It's for kindergarten kids, and the last time I checked this game is not for kindergarten kids. Take an example from KOTOR. Some of the puzzles got me thinking for like 20 minutes or more , some really challenged me what to do so I was borderline pissed off, but in a good way.

 

 

5. Make some of the dungeons skill specific . What I mean is, some of the chests are very hard to open or almost impossible if you aren't an expert or a master lockpicker. So if the lockpickers get an advantage like that, then why not the mages and the warriors ?

"You need this expert skill of ______ (insert an expert illusion/destruction etc spell) to open this door to further explore this dungeon. And of course I know people gonna cheat with the console, but if the reward is only good for a mage, a warrior or an assassin has nothing to look for down there.

Same with the warriors . you need to be a master armsman or you need this skill ________ (insert an expert or master warrior skill) to open this lock. A mage has nothing to do down here, the prize at the end is useless for him, but a warrior will benefit greatly..

 

So this kind of stuff...I I got more ideas, I'll write them later. ...I hope it will help or inspire some modders or just players who aren't afraid of modding. I know the kit would be essential for these ideas, but perhaps some people get some ideas this way, before they sit down and try to figure out what kind of mod they want to make. :thumbsup:

Edited December 15, 2011 by pannonian

[NSCReaver]

Always enjoy hearing ideas like these, please post more if you have them. Just had a few things to ask / add, everything else I agree on more or less.

 

3. Would you not want several unique items that you had to choose from? For instance, if I put in a unique item for almost every skill (some would be rather useless), and you had to choose which to take with you, or which to give to your follower. Besides inputting randomly enchanted, high level items like Daedric Sword of Fire or whatever, which is what I think you're getting at.

 

4. A lot of the KOTOR puzzles were just pushing buttons in the correct sequence, or using math to reach a certain number. But now that I think about it, there were some interesting ones - can you remember which ones you're talking about, specifically? Also, what do you think about trap lethality?

 

5. This already partially exists, although I won't go into detail. Interesting idea, though.

 

Additional.

 

What do you think about combat scenarios and boss mobs?

 

I brought up a point a long time ago about Loyalty items. The basic concept is that someone would release several dungeons over time (or all at once), and somewhere in the first dungeon, there would be an item that weighs nothing and can't be sold, but it can be taken into the second dungeon and it'll unlock some secret room or pathway. Thoughts?

 

EDIT: Anyone can answer my questions, by the way.

Edited December 15, 2011 by NSCReaver

[nosisab]

Indeed, this would bring back the good old Paper and Pen RPG feeling instead a go and loot game. Still I think that would take a TC, not a simple mod.

[Artistdude05]

Personally I wouldn't mind more dynamic and immersive dungeons. I never did like dungeons that feel very linear where we're simply going from point A to point B, no matter how many curvy tunnels we have to go through. I like dungeons to be large and dynamic that feel like it's possible there are more than one way to get to the objective point. Through puzzles, brute forcing and fighting all the denizens, sneaking through, or a combination of them.

[pannonian]

Always enjoy hearing ideas like these, please post more if you have them. Just had a few things to ask / add, everything else I agree on more or less.

 

3. Would you not want several unique items that you had to choose from? For instance, if I put in a unique item for almost every skill (some would be rather useless), and you had to choose which to take with you, or which to give to your follower. Besides inputting randomly enchanted, high level items like Daedric Sword of Fire or whatever, which is what I think you're getting at.

 

I think, there should be maybe 1 unique item, but something that isn't available anywhere else or very rare. Maybe a piece of a set, that needs to be collected?

 

4. A lot of the KOTOR puzzles were just pushing buttons in the correct sequence, or using math to reach a certain number. But now that I think about it, there were some interesting ones - can you remember which ones you're talking about, specifically? Also, what do you think about trap lethality?

If you remember, getting to the starmap, there were energy rings needed to be placed in a correct order, that wasn't too easy at all, especially the player got a nice dose of electricity if he wasn't doing it right. There were also others, that required the player to memorize riddles and words in a correct order . Now, there should be some "there is no reset" thing, if he screws up, he can't get in, unless he does something else. So save/load is the only option perhaps.

 

 

 

What do you think about combat scenarios and boss mobs?

 

There should be an option to talk to them as well. Maybe the player should be able to get into a conversation, just like with the daedra, if the player decides to kill the boss, he gets a unique item, but complete a quest for them, and they give a unique item , not the same item though. Both options should have a tradeoff.

 

I brought up a point a long time ago about Loyalty items. The basic concept is that someone would release several dungeons over time (or all at once), and somewhere in the first dungeon, there would be an item that weighs nothing and can't be sold, but it can be taken into the second dungeon and it'll unlock some secret room or pathway. Thoughts?

Excellent idea. And then find the next dungeon (give the player hints with books and notes) which has to be cleared, and then branch off a new quest, once all the dungeons unlocking each other are cleared.

[huntsman2310]

What would be easier then having to lug around torches for relighting a abandoned dungeon, would to make a permenent magelight spell that allows for more than one ball.

 

Of course thats speaking from a magic perspective.

[rpawn]

I'd welcome a mod along the lines of the OP's suggestions. Though i'm not much of a puzzle solver, the puzzles in Skyrim are just good for me.

Regarding the pack mule issue i wholeheartedly agree. I suspect inventory management is generally the most disliked part of RPGs, be it solo or MMO.

I certainly think that increasing carrying capacity as some do, only increases the problem. I'd rather go the other way: have the game just drop less stuff.

 

3. Would you not want several unique items that you had to choose from? ...

 

A few during the course of the game, yes - but not in every other dungeon.

 

Being the dragonborn hero and all, i'm not dependent on dungeons for my gear. Of all the uniques that i have found that i could use, most i have sold because i already have rather good gear.

 

 

What would be easier then having to lug around torches for relighting a abandoned dungeon, would to make a permenent magelight spell that allows for more than one ball.

 

Dark dungeons could have torches that are turned off and can be turned on by the player.

[bben46]

Re: The dark dungeons. The best implementation of that was in an Oblivion mod called 'The Dungeons of Ivellon' - a German mod by Lazarus89 and translated into English by DWS.

 

The dungeons in it were pitch black, but there were torches on the walls and lanterns hanging from the overhead that could be lit by either directly applying a burning torch or hitting them with a fireball spell.

 

The mod has other very interesting features - including a few puzzles - that make it very interesting to play. :thumbsup:

[NSCReaver]

I'd rather go the other way: have the game just drop less stuff.

 

 

Being the dragonborn hero and all, i'm not dependent on dungeons for my gear. Of all the uniques that i have found that i could use, most i have sold because i already have rather good gear.

 

Interesting thoughts, hadn't considered them before. Will take it into account while planning out my dungeons.

 

Another question I had, since we're on the topic of immersion - what do you guys think about books? IE, what purpose should they serve - hints to puzzles, foreshadowing, non-essential immersion, or maybe skill-up books? Would like some thoughts on the skill-up books in particular.

[sosoba]

I'd like very much books that hints at dungeons or secrets...i remember a note in oblivion, in a book shop, of a trade between the shopkeeper and some evokers, in a dungeon and of a precise book. In the book was hinted where this dungeon was, i extrapolated it, ttravelled and...there it was! With evokers and the book and all. I found it really exciting and immersive.

 

Regarding the points presented i agree with everything. Dungeons aree way too lit, with stuff that is way too "out of character".

Also, i'd prefer to have an almost empty of loot dungeon, but with more lore-expanding objects, from a book in a dwemer ruin that explain what that place was, to a wall with writing in a tomb with a poem on the dead.

 

Last thing, maybe we could unite books and legacy items so that someone finds an item in a tomb, a book in another that hints wherer to use that item and a third tomb where, well hidden from someone who has not read the right book, is a hole in a wall that opens a secret passageway...