Where do the Minutemen fit in the synth debate?

[Gilibran]

The whole point is, you make the story, and Betthesda has given us the means to make that story however we want. The only crucial faction if you want to end the story is the institute.

[DoctorKaizeld]

This is an rpg the multiple choices (even though fo4 has few of those) will always make some details not work for the standard linear story format.

[Ethreon]

First, you are judging a game with the same principles as a book. Then, you are expecting the beth main writer to be actually good. Third, you seem to only accept arguments that suit you.

[stebbinsd]

This is an rpg the multiple choices (even though fo4 has few of those) will always make some details not work for the standard linear story format.

But at least the contributions to the story are there, in the game code, whether any particular person sees them or not.

 

In Skyrim, there was a serial killer. He had a diary in his house where it was revealed that he was trying to resurrect his dead sister using necromancy. That diary was in a very well hidden spot in his home and the key to it could only be accessed after he was dead. But just because a person may not see it does not mean it isn't there. It's still considered "canon" when discussing Elder Scrolls lore.

 

In FO4, I can go to Quincy and read up about the Sanctuary Gang's lives before they were thrown into chaos by the Gunners. This helps add to their characters and personalities. 99% of players will probably never see those terminal entries unless they already know from the Internet that they're there, since there's no quest that takes you to Quincy. But the terminals still exist.

 

The Railroad contributes to the main theme of FO4's main quest - the definitions of humanity and sentience - whether you join them or not, or whether or not you even meet them. Same with BOS.

 

The Minutemen have no contribution to the main plot.

[DoctorKaizeld]

First, you are judging a game with the same principles as a book. Then, you are expecting the beth main writer to be actually good. Third, you seem to only accept arguments that suit you.

What Ethreon said is quite true

[stebbinsd]

First, you are judging a game with the same principles as a book. Then, you are expecting the beth main writer to be actually good. Third, you seem to only accept arguments that suit you.

1. I'm judging a story with the same principles as a story. I would hold any story to these standards, regardless of medium. TV shows? Movies? Comic books? Serialized comic strips? You name it.

 

2. Bethesda has plenty of competent writers. On their "jobs" page, you can see that they are hiring quest writers independently of any other game development position ... suggesting to me that they employ dedicated writers independently of their programmers. So ... why exactly am I out of line for expecting these dedicated writers to be ... well ... dedicated to their writing?

 

3. I've done my best to explain why I believe your counter-arguments are unpersuasive. What else do you want from me?

[snapper69]

Chekhov only said that the gun had to go off, he didn't say why. It could be to kill an important character, it could be to defend the persons home and family, it could even be for someone to go out and shoot a Duck/Goose/Turkey for Christmas dinner.

 

The Railroad are there to help the synths, the BOS are there to kill them, the Minutemen are there to protect the ordinary people from anyone that would harm them and also to help make the Commonwealth a better and safer place.

[llamaRCA]

 

The main plot is finding your kid.

No, under classic literary structure, Shaun's kidnapping is classified as the "inciting incident." It's not the plot itself.

 

If that's all the plot were, the main quest would end the minute I reunite with Shaun in the Institute. But the main quest continues after that. So that means there must be more to the plot than that.

I'd argue that finding your son is the climax of the game. Everything after that is just busy work leading up to which faction you choose to blow up. The overarching narrative is about control of the commonwealth and which faction you should support. That's how the Minutemen fit into it and why they are there. Any exploration of what it means to be human versus synth is located in things like Danse's mission, the H2-22 quest and the Covenant quest. I quite like these moments, and think they are thought provoking, but they aren't the main focus of the game, which is much more mundane.

[crawe1x]

As far as I can tell, the problem here is that Beth gave us four main factions, when they should have given us six.

The Institute, the BoS, and the Railroad are all focused on synths, AI, and technology.

Simultaneously, balancing this out, there are three factions focused on humanity. They are the Minutemen, the Raiders, and the Gunners. For some reason, Beth decided to only turn one of these three into a 'main' faction. As a result, the themes of the story feel unbalanced. To my mind, the Minutemen are never really part of the obvious Main Quest debate that involves the Institute, BoS, and Railroad (in this debate, they're just a bit player). Instead, they are part of an entirely different debate that involves the Raiders and Gunners. These two factions are the Minutemen's true antagonists, NOT the Institute or the BoS.

This is how I interpret them:

At the beginning of the game, you enter what appears to be a dying world, both in terms of the planet and the destruction of humanity. The Main Quest guides you through this decay in search of hope, which is represented by your missing infant son. Ultimately, however, this is a red herring. The Shaun that you are looking for is long gone: all that remains is a terminally ill old man. In other words, your hope of finding your son is already lost. But in making this discovery, you also realize that the world isn't dying and nor is humanity. Both have been pushed to the very brink, but they still abide. And as your hope of finding your son is shattered, simultaneously you gain a new hope for humanity (there's even a line to this effect when Piper interviews you for the newspaper article).

Regarding the Raiders, Gunners and Minutemen, each of them represents a different view of humanity:

The Raiders have already given up and want to see the world burn. They represent chaos and hopelessness. This is the easy route, which makes them cowards.

The Gunners are the most poorly implemented faction in the game (pure sloppiness on Beth's part). However, if we consider how they are actually DESCRIBED, they are essentially parasites. Like the Raiders, they believe humanity is doomed. But unlike the Raiders, they intend to make a buck along the way. They're the equivalent to the cynical doctor who can't cure you of cancer, but instead decides to make a fortune by putting you on chemo; he'll shake every last penny out of you - and then you'll still die.

Of the three, the Minutemen are the only ones who haven't lost hope and still believe in humanity. At the start of the game, they're all but finished. In-fighting has left them weak and corrupt. Next, the Gunners almost wipe them out at Quincy, while the Raiders come close to finishing the job in Concord. Preston is the last of the Minutemen. He is the last hope but is near-suicidal (or so he claims later on). When we first meet him, he is cornered by Raiders (i.e. the hopeless). In others words, Hope is literally seconds away from being snuffed out. And then the Sole Survivor arrives. The Sole Survivor is searching for one kind of hope (a lost child), only to stumble upon another kind of hope (the future of humanity) - though this only comes later on. By leading the Minutemen back from the brink, the Sole Survivor makes this hope a reality by ensuring that humanity does indeed have a future.

As a result, thematically, the Raiders represent chaos, the Gunners represent nihilism, and the Minutemen represent hope, order, and life.

That's my take, and being a pretentious arse, I'm almost certainly reading way too much into it. :D In which case, probably better to go with what Ethreon said three pages ago: "Rebuilding the bloody commonwealth. They don't care if you're a brooding alien as long as you are willing to help with that." :wink:

Edited January 5, 2017 by crawe1x

[DoctorKaizeld]

hey put "(spoilers)" just after "This is how I interpret them:" so as to avoid issues.

 

 

The Gunners are the most poorly implemented faction in the game (pure sloppiness on Beth's part). However, if we consider how they are actually DESCRIBED, they are essentially parasites. Like the Raiders, they believe humanity is doomed. But unlike the Raiders, they intend to make a buck along the way. They're the equivalent to the cynical doctor who can't cure you of cancer, but instead decides to make a fortune by putting you on chemo; he'll shake every last penny out of you - and then you'll still die.

the sad part is you can find tons of cut content and see half finished aspects of the Gunners throughout the game. this is part of my biggest issue with the game as a whole, you can see where things seem unfinished or under utilized. there is so much not explained for things you want to know more about. what's worse is it's not even the 'dont explain everything leave things open ended' kinda thing that can be quite good (end of the movie inception is an example of what i mean).

 

 

Of the three, the Minutemen are the only ones who haven't lost hope and still believe in humanity. At the start of the game, they're all but finished. In-fighting has left them weak and corrupt. Next, the Gunners almost wipe them out at Quincy, while the Raiders come close to finishing the job in Concord. Preston is the last of the Minutemen. He is the last hope but is near-suicidal (or so he claims later on). When we first meet him, he is cornered by Raiders (i.e. the hopeless). In others words, Hope is literally seconds away from being snuffed out. And then the Sole Survivor arrives. The Sole Survivor is searching for one kind of hope (a lost child), only to stumble upon another kind of hope (the future of humanity) - though this only comes later on. By leading the Minutemen back from the brink, the Sole Survivor makes this hope a reality by ensuring that humanity does indeed have a future.

you literally explained a major problem with the Minutemen and it isnt the one you think it is. the Sole Survivor should never have become General at the beginning of the game. what should have happened was you can persuade Preston to do it and be the right hand man/woman who helps him become a great leader.

 

 

That's my take, and being a pretentious arse, I'm almost certainly reading way too much into it.

you are but we all do it and it's fun so keep being pretentious with the rest of us pretentious chums!

 

 

:D In which case, probably better to go with what Ethreon said three pages ago: "Rebuilding the bloody commonwealth. They don't care if you're a brooding alien as long as you are willing to help with that." :wink:

agreed