SSE CTD on Save After Hours of Gameplay

[joemodda]

I've yet to try it, but I will when I have the time. At the moment, disabling Convenient Horses seems to do the trick for now. I am very curious to find out specifically why the game is crashing and why removing certain mods temporarily fixes the issue.

 

Do we have a blacklist of mods that are known to cause problems? So far we have:

• Birds of Skyrim
• Diverse Dragons
• Convenient Horses

I'm not sure how script-heavy these mods are... but I'm guessing there's a correlation between how heavily-scripted a mod is and the CTD issue

[squireoivanhoe]

I've yet to try it, but I will when I have the time. At the moment, disabling Convenient Horses seems to do the trick for now. I am very curious to find out specifically why the game is crashing and why removing certain mods temporarily fixes the issue.

 

Do we have a blacklist of mods that are known to cause problems? So far we have:

• Birds of Skyrim
• Diverse Dragons
• Convenient Horses

I'm not sure how script-heavy these mods are... but I'm guessing there's a correlation between how heavily-scripted a mod is and the CTD issue

The game is crashing because papyrus can't handle the number of scripts that occurred at some point, and since it was unable to get a return on one (or more than one), it keeps calling for that script ad-infinitum until it creates a pile-up. Removing ANY mods that use scripts temporarily relieves the amount of scripts being called, but it will slowly keep crawling back up due to one (or more than one) script being continually called to from the void.

 

We don't have a blacklist of mods, because again, THE PROBLEM ISN'T WITH ANY SPECIFIC MODS, BUT RATHER WITH HOW MANY SCRIPTS ARE GETTING CALLED AT ANY ONE TIME. That being said, you are right about the correlation. Some mods use more scripts than others, and so might be more likely culprits for script overload. Currently, I'm using both Diverse Dragons and Convenient Horses, so it is definitely possible to use them in SOME configuration, just perhaps not in yours.

[ZakNea]

I've had this save problem for a while now. And yes, I am an experienced modder and have been messing around this a stable heavily modded Skyrim since 2011, at least until 1.5.23 update was released. This is just speculation before I get flamed for that...

 

It has nothing to do with mods, it's just papyrus being what it is. I'm 100% confident in that.

 

I have spent countless hours creating armor mods. The entire time I am in game typically while I am working on my mods. I keep my character in a black cell, essentially. I've been "playing" this character for, quite literally, 1000's of hours in this cell. Never once had issues with saving CTD. This is with SKSE64 and probably 10 mods or so dependent on it and everything. Hell, when I open in resaver, I have 82 unattached instances, and 62 undefined elements. But no problems saving whatsoever!

 

So now I am like ok, I am done with modding for a while I am going to actually play. I get save CTD by the time I hit Riverwood on a newly created character, lol. My mods have not changed whatsoever, and I never had an issue with Skyrim SE CTD on saving in the past. (Let's just blame the creation club updates, eh? lol. The reason I say this, I had no issues with saving even when SKSE64 first came out. Now that Skyrim is 1.5.23 or whatever I'm constantly having CTD on saving. BUT!!! See what I got next...)

 

Funny thing is, I coc myself back to my black cell I use when creating armors to save and I never have issues with saving, even on a save that I know will CTD immediately when trying to save.

 

My save file is 3 MB, definitely not bloated. No orphaned scripts. Showing 5k scripts, and 48k script instances in Resaver, for reference. Which is pretty low

 

This is working for me, you can try it. It might not work for you, because everyone's got different things going on. I still had save CTD after removing SKSE64 and all related mods, so I'm fully confident SKSE64 is not the culprit either. I just think it has to do with scripts running like you say on an antiquated engine. I've had issues with saving on interior cells too, but never in my blank black cell, maybe because there is literally, nothing in it, I dunno. If you ask me, papyrus just sucks and it seems like since Skyrim SE has had updates it has gotten much worse. This thread for instance, didn't have a whole lot of activity until around October, wouldn't you say? Just a thought, but that was right around the 1.5.23 update and SKSE64 release... But like I said, I have already ruled out SKSE64 on a new character.

 

Anyhow, my blank cell is just Review Studio converted personally to Skyrim SE, if anyone wants to try it. Unfortunately, with the research and tests I've done, this is the only thing that is going to work for me, and let's hope that TES:VI doesn't use a garbage engine lol.

 

Hope this helps someone and I didn't ramble on too much!

[squireoivanhoe]

I've had this save problem for a while now. And yes, I am an experienced modder and have been messing around this a stable heavily modded Skyrim since 2011, at least until 1.5.23 update was released. This is just speculation before I get flamed for that...

 

It has nothing to do with mods, it's just papyrus being what it is. I'm 100% confident in that.

 

I have spent countless hours creating armor mods. The entire time I am in game typically while I am working on my mods. I keep my character in a black cell, essentially. I've been "playing" this character for, quite literally, 1000's of hours in this cell. Never once had issues with saving CTD. This is with SKSE64 and probably 10 mods or so dependent on it and everything. Hell, when I open in resaver, I have 82 unattached instances, and 62 undefined elements. But no problems saving whatsoever!

 

So now I am like ok, I am done with modding for a while I am going to actually play. I get save CTD by the time I hit Riverwood on a newly created character, lol. My mods have not changed whatsoever, and I never had an issue with Skyrim SE CTD on saving in the past. (Let's just blame the creation club updates, eh? lol. The reason I say this, I had no issues with saving even when SKSE64 first came out. Now that Skyrim is 1.5.23 or whatever I'm constantly having CTD on saving. BUT!!! See what I got next...)

 

Funny thing is, I coc myself back to my black cell I use when creating armors to save and I never have issues with saving, even on a save that I know will CTD immediately when trying to save.

 

My save file is 3 MB, definitely not bloated. No orphaned scripts. Showing 5k scripts, and 48k script instances in Resaver, for reference. Which is pretty low

 

This is working for me, you can try it. It might not work for you, because everyone's got different things going on. I still had save CTD after removing SKSE64 and all related mods, so I'm fully confident SKSE64 is not the culprit either. I just think it has to do with scripts running like you say on an antiquated engine. I've had issues with saving on interior cells too, but never in my blank black cell, maybe because there is literally, nothing in it, I dunno. If you ask me, papyrus just sucks and it seems like since Skyrim SE has had updates it has gotten much worse. This thread for instance, didn't have a whole lot of activity until around October, wouldn't you say? Just a thought, but that was right around the 1.5.23 update and SKSE64 release... But like I said, I have already ruled out SKSE64 on a new character.

 

Anyhow, my blank cell is just Review Studio converted personally to Skyrim SE, if anyone wants to try it. Unfortunately, with the research and tests I've done, this is the only thing that is going to work for me, and let's hope that TES:VI doesn't use a garbage engine lol.

 

Hope this helps someone and I didn't ramble on too much!

 

Thanks for the data ZakNea! Yes, I 100% agree that it's papyrus being unable to handle certain loads being thrown at it.

 

As far as the updates, I'm sure that they didn't help, but I've been having this problem ever since January of 2017. It can just take a really long time to manifest, so a lot of people won't notice it until they've been playing their save for a long time (if ever).

 

It's starting to seem to me that this bug might (theoretically) be inevitable at some point it time, with that time being dependent on how many scripts you are running. So the only real countermeasures are to save often, keep the number of script-heavy mods you are running low, and perhaps give your save a script enema every once in awhile.

[leonardo2]

It has nothing to do with mods, it's just papyrus being what it is. I'm 100% confident in that.

Wrong. Papyrus has to do with mods, especially those mods that install loose scripts. Which can cancel bugfixes in USSEP.

Edited February 25, 2018 by leonardo2

[BlueGunk]

I'm back again. After a few months of playing Fallout 4 I built a brand new, shiny and glorious Skyrim game that looks almost 4k (well, I can fool myself). And guess what - freezing on saving.

And I only just finished BleakFall Barrow...for the 1,000th time.

 

I've re-read this thread and yep, I have Steve40's Skybirds SSE and yep - it's giving me nearly 40 scripts on one save alone (added to the 30 or so Bethesda critter scripts).

I did try and open a conversation with Steve40, but didn't really get any further than being told I don't know anything about the game engine. I wasn't too happy.

I love his mod, it may be perfectly fine, but given our experiences with script heavy games I'm pulling it and cleaning the saves.

 

I'll let you know. Thank you for an ongoing useful thread.

 

Update: removing Skybirds resulted in the deletion of over 2300 scripts, and a saving of over a MB in game save. Wow - that's some loading from one mod, no matter how well built.

Sadly after a period of experimentation with only 4 active scripts, I still have my game save freeze.

 

Interesting fact: from opening the current cleaned save to the moment I try to save the game, the ​longer​ I wait to make a save, the higher the chance of another freeze. I can save easily from the moment I open the game. But if I leave it ten minutes, I'll get a freeze.

Weird....

 

I've now run the player.kill routine but last time I tried it, it did not work.

[squireoivanhoe]

Hi BlueGunk,

 

Yes, I'm sorry to hear that. For me, it was better to just start over without SkyBirds; fortunately you're only at BleakFalls. The only saves I could recover were from before I ran into my first woodpecker, two hours into the game. At that point, not worth it. Just start another save without SkyBirds.

 

To be fair to Steve40, his mod probably works fine on its own, again, its just in combination with other stuff it's too much. I would get frustrated too if people expected my mod to work with every other mod, especially when its something he did for free.

[BlueGunk]

Just checked my Administration Logs. They simply say the SkyrimSE stopped interacting with Windows.

However, I notice two entries (about the time of the first freezes) where the system reported very low virtual memory, listing Skyrim SE, AVG and Mod Organizer as the three top culprits (in that order).

System = Win10 Home, i7 Intel processor, 16GB RAM NVidia 9080ti with 6GB Ram. Running Skyrim on SSD with 123GB space free on that drive alone.

 

Had a look at permissions which did throw up some weirdies with save game accesses, so remounted ALL permissions for this drive to me as admin. Resolved also a corrupted Recycle Bin on the drive.

Hmmmmmm.......

 

Still crashing on saves, despite rolling back to when it started. Once again I get this message: Windows successfully diagnosed a low virtual memory condition.

Given we're talking about an 8MB save with a PC that runs a modded Fallout 4 smoothly, this strikes me like some kind of memory leak from a mod or from SKSE or something.

[squireoivanhoe]

Just checked my Administration Logs. They simply say the SkyrimSE stopped interacting with Windows.

However, I notice two entries (about the time of the first freezes) where the system reported very low virtual memory, listing Skyrim SE, AVG and Mod Organizer as the three top culprits (in that order).

System = Win10 Home, i7 Intel processor, 16GB RAM NVidia 9080ti with 6GB Ram. Running Skyrim on SSD with 123GB space free on that drive alone.

 

Had a look at permissions which did throw up some weirdies with save game accesses, so remounted ALL permissions for this drive to me as admin. Resolved also a corrupted Recycle Bin on the drive.

Hmmmmmm.......

 

Still crashing on saves, despite rolling back to when it started. Once again I get this message: Windows successfully diagnosed a low virtual memory condition.

Given we're talking about an 8MB save with a PC that runs a modded Fallout 4 smoothly, this strikes me like some kind of memory leak from a mod or from SKSE or something.

We're pretty sure that it's script overload. You'd have to roll back not just to when save issues started, but to before the script first misfired.

[macrocosm144]

This happened to me on a 700+ hour playthru...

I think it may have been on account of saving over an autosave as was mentioned elsewhere, but I have done that many times with no issues in this playthru.

I did have Skybirds and have just cleaned it out of my save, hopefully it works...

its very frustrating, because it happened just after I deleted most of my old saves lol fml... :sick: :ermm:

 

EDIT:

Well... it worked... so far im able to play fine and all types of saves work again! Whoohoo! :laugh:

 

Skybirds is broken, I wont be so nice as to say otherwise. Not because the author is bad, or its even a bad mod, its awesome, but the way its gone about is crufty, ive seen this mentioned in far too many places for a bunch of different reasons. Perhaps the community can help the author devise an alternative method of spawning birds? I have all sorts of mods that spawn a huge array of added creatures and stuff, but none of them have tons of scripts running to spawn them. The woodpecker script seems to be the main culprit.

 

That said, I did go over 700 hours before having this trouble, so its not so bad as it could be, but I'd think all these reports of issues should be enough to admit there is a problem with the mod. Ive got about 300 mods, and this is the only one that removing it fixed my game.

Edited March 14, 2018 by macrocosm144