The Sunday Discussion - CDante

[TheTokenGeek]

This week I am pleased to bring you a modder that I have been following over the past few months, CDante, the author of the incredible 'Push Away Companions', a mod that our own Dark0ne liked so much he added as his Staff Pick. This week we find out what got him started in modding, what he is working on at the moment and what we can expect in the future.

 

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Hi CDante, and welcome to the Sunday discussion. Firstly would you mind letting us know a little bit about you?

 

Hello Paul, and thank you for this amazing opportunity. My real name is Daniel, I’m a 35-year-old web developer from Budapest, Hungary. I have a masters in electrical engineering but I majored in applied informatics and computer architectures. I've been working in IT for the last 12 years, mostly in online media and bank informatics. Besides the obvious love for video games, I also spent more than a decade collecting, playing and popularizing tabletop miniature games such as Warhammer 40k. Some of my other hobbies include playing the bass, playing basketball and the occasional games of airsoft.

 

What first got you into gaming and what console/computer did you start with?

 

My grandfather is an electrical engineer like myself and he managed to get a Commodore 64 in the early ‘80s. He was the one who taught me how to list, load, run games on the C64 and even made me a floppy disk with my favorite games on it. I was 4.

 

I’ve been a gamer ever since.

 

In the early '90s, I fell in love with the Amiga so much that my first PC only came in the Pentium 1 era. I have always had my own gaming PC ever since, and the first one was the only one I haven't built myself. Besides the PC, I also had a SEGA Master System in the '90s and now I own an XBox 360 as well just for party games like Rock Band and such.

Did you have any favourite games while you were growing up?

 

Oh so many. I most fondly remember classic point & click adventures from LucasArts like Day of the Tentacle, the Monkey Island series, Full Throttle and similar games from Revolution Software like Beneath a Steel Sky or the Broken Sword series. But I also remember playing months on end of strategy games like the original X-Com and Terror from the Deep, the good old Settlers games, Dungeon Keeper 1 & 2, the Heroes of Might and Magic series and the first Red Alert game and RPGs like the Baldur's Gate and the Icewind Dale series and of course Fallout 1 & 2.

 

I could go on but if I look back, growing up as an only child I guess my favorite games were always the ones that granted a long single player experience with a great story and lovable, interesting characters. Not unlike reading a great book. So guess that's why my favorites were always adventure games and RPGs.

 

In terms of modding, you have hit the limelight recently with a series of releases for Fallout 4 that have grabbed the attention of not only our ‘Dark0ne’ but also PCGamer. What made you decide to mod Fallout 4 and did you have any previous experience?

 

I'm so glad you didn't mention the Kotaku article haha.

 

I never had any modding experience before Fallout 4 although I always played previous Bethesda games, and was constantly altering and fixing things via console commands. So it kinda started with playing Fallout 4 for 300 hours in the first 30 days after its release... I know. Guess I can't say I hate Fallout 4 haha. Then I started to test out mods and wanted a full MultiCam camo outfit for my character because that was our pattern of choice in our airsoft team. While there were a lot of camo retextures for outfits even back then, that wasn't enough, I wanted to add our team badge to the shoulder and the beret as well, so I quickly figured out how to edit texture files. That feeling right there, when I actually did something that changed the game, and the result was exactly the way I wanted it, that feeling I won't ever forget.

 

http://img.reblog.hu/blogs/22105/multicam-logo2084.jpg?w=600

 

So I didn't stop there - one thing led to another and in February 2016 I released my first mod ever that added more than 200 standalone camo retextures for 7 different vanilla items. That was ‘All Camo Uniforms.’

 

When I started to receive more and more positive feedback about something I made for the game, and hundreds of users were downloading and enjoying my very first mod, I knew I found the best hobby ever.

 

Well, you’ve mentioned it now - so I’m going to ask! What about the Kotaku article?

 

There’s a technical issue in Fallout 4 with inactive radio stations. Let’s take Diamond City Radio for example. If the player turns off the Pip-Boy radio or is listening to another station, and there are no other radio receivers playing DCR nearby, the radio station will continue and finish playing the track the player was last listening to, then it will just stop playing tracks in the background, and starts rapidly skipping from one track to the next as if the songs were 0 seconds long. When the player tunes back into Diamond City, it will start playing the next song it reached during its inactive state.

While this is not a very noticeable problem with vanilla radios as they all play songs randomly anyway, it is a huge problem with radio mods like Old World Radio where most stations have a specific order of tracks. Which is especially important when it comes to episodic radio dramas.

 

So last summer I came up with the idea of spawning a completely muted and invisible actor near the player for 3 seconds that acts like a settlement radio, preventing the inactive station from rapidly skipping tracks when a song would end.

 

While the idea worked in theory, I made a big mistake thinking it would be a good idea to use the smallest actor in the vanilla game as a blank radio receiver: a cat. People started reporting issues with sneaking, or sometimes hearing dying, screaming, drowning cats in the background while playing the game. Then I was pointed to the right direction by fellow mod authors that the best way to use this technique is not with a cat but with a simple X marker. The bug was fixed within one or two days.

Now half a year later enters Kotaku exposing my mistake thanks to a Twitter post and making an article about it. Frankly, it wasn’t spiteful, the main message of the article was that modders sometimes come up with the weirdest solutions to make something work. Just like the game’s developers themselves.

 

The Kotaku Article

 

"Push Away Companions" was a stroke of genius and not only very funny but genuinely useful to have in the collection. What made you decide to make this mod and how long did it take you?

 

I remember the exact moment. I was watching a Nuka-World gameplay by Gopher and he got stuck multiple times in a maze because Codsworth was constantly in his way. I remembered Papyrus having a function called PushActorAway and that was it. It was one of my quickest mods to make. Even with adding player dialogue and making a video for the mod it took me around a week. I quickly showed it to Gopher and I was so happy he even covered it in a Mod Vault video. He really seemed to enjoy the mod a lot. These are the moments that motivate me the most.

 

It’s these moments when you wonder why it wasn’t thought of by the developers themselves, easy to implement and infinitely useful. Do you have any pet hates in the game? Things that really grind your gears?

 

Basically, I’m a completionist. Especially when it comes to huge open-world games. So because of that, what really bothers me the most when I can’t finish a quest, recruit a unique settler, loot a certain legendary item or reach maximum level in a skill just because of the many minor bugs throughout the game. Thank god there are console commands! And of course starting to mod the game helped too.

Do you have any ideas for future releases? Can you give us a sneak peek into what you have in store?

 

By the time this interview goes out Transfer Settlements should be released finally. I’ve been working on that mod for 2 months now and it’s by far my most anticipated mod to date. It gives you the possibility to export settlement data into external files, and import them back to any savegames of any characters, or publish these blueprint data files on Nexus pretty much the same way as LooksMenu or BodySlide presets. I will also release a Win32 tool that will allow you to convert exported blueprints to standalone mods that do not require Transfer Settlements or F4SE. These generated plugins will have the single feature of only importing that blueprint, adding the settlement to your game. That way these generated mods can be uploaded as XB1 mods to Bethesda.net as well.

 

Another long-awaited project of mine is the real-time hair and beard growing mod. It doesn’t require much explanation, it will work pretty much like the beard growing mechanism in The Witcher 3 except it will add hair growing as well for both male and female characters. I’m planning to finish up that mod after Transfer Settlements.

 

 

Those who follow me on social media might have noticed that I was also working together with the ShoddyCast for months on an interactive Storyteller radio and lore database. This is a huge and very exciting project, and the basic idea is to create a radio station with all 75 Storyteller episodes, around 100 lore-friendly commercials as well as lore-friendly cooking recipes and archive historical footage that teaches the player about different parts of the Boston area. The radio will always dynamically react to player actions: enemies encountered, looted items, active quests, locations, NPCs, etc - always trying to play relevant ST episodes, commercials or educational stuff. Some of the radio content will be locked by default to not give away spoilers and can be unlocked by progressing through the game, thus building a lore database in a holotape form as a result where the player can initiate the playback of any unlocked content from the radio. The ShoddyCast’s Psycho episodes will also be included as Easter Eggs that can be unlocked by finding various items throughout the Commonwealth. 

 

 

Another radio-related project is the Pip-Man 3000, a complete Pip-Boy radio overhaul that features volume controls and the possibility to play any songs or even schedule or discard multiple tracks in a radio. This should be compatible with all vanilla radios as well as the most popular radio mods on Nexus.

 

I also had plans such as a working Mad Max 2-style gyrocopter as a vehicle mod, an immersion mod that adds scars and bruises to the player’s face dynamically during combat, and a weapon mod that adds a Batman-style grappling hook.

 

A lot of your mods are based on companions and followers, is this particular type of mod something that takes your interest?

 

Actually the largest portion of my mods are radios which is easy to miss if you check my profile on Nexus since none of those are uploaded by me haha. I made Kooky Radio with Skinnytecboy, GTKYMA Radio with Darren (DDProductions83) and I became tech lead in Brandoman's Old World Radio - Boston project when it had around 10 radio stations. Now we have 30. I also helped Casey with the first iteration of WRVR.

 

But yeah, I’m certainly not denying I love companions, one of the few things I believe Fallout 4 did better than earlier Bethesda titles are followers, their backstories, and the affinity system. One of the reasons I got so addicted to Fallout 4 is that I wanted to reach maximum affinity with all of them. Constantly checking their current affinity in console made me realize I need this fixed, so I learned how to decompile, modify and recompile Papyrus scripts and Visible Companion Affinity was born. Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw how quickly my second mod became a hot file.

Then 8 months later I made a mod to shove them to the clouds haha.

 

Have you created all your mods yourself or do you have to call on fellow mod authors or friends to help you out?

 

Lately, as I was struggling with the implementation of my very first F4SE plugin I got huge amounts of help from Expired6978 and registrator2000. I’m also very lucky that last year I was accepted in a small group chat of some of the most talented and helpful mod authors. I want to mention ousnius, jonwd7 and Skinnytecboy, they helped me with a lot of issues since I had the pleasure to get to know them.

 

I’m always open for collaborations with other mod authors, the radio mods I mentioned are good examples, but I have plenty of projects to finish on my own as well.

 

What software suites do you use to create your mods?

 

I almost never use the Creation Kit for the kind of mods I make. I don’t really need to change celldata, put objects in the game world with the editor or create complicated dialogue trees. I completely understand why the CK is important, I just don’t need it for my mods. I’m much more comfortable using xEdit to create plugins, not to mention how important xEdit’s scripting possibilities are for me. There were many times I had to edit hundreds if not thousands of game records and I simply can’t imagine doing that without xEdit scripts.

 

For Papyrus scripting I’m using Notepad++ with Papyrus script extensions. I usually compile my codes with Caprica or sometimes with the Creation Kit’s command line compiler. Occasionally I use Python scripts with Notepad++ on my Papyrus scripts if more complicated text replacements are needed.

I use NifSkope and Outfit Studio if I need to alter meshes, 3ds Max if I need to create new things, Photoshop for texture work, Adobe Flash for creating new sprite animations like new HUD elements and a lot of Visual Studio 2012 lately for C++ and F4SE stuff.

 

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Have you ever modded for Skyrim or Skyrim SE as all your mods on Nexus Mods are based around Fallout 4?

 

No, I haven’t. When SSE came out last year I felt like this is my chance to finally mod Skyrim as well. But, by that time I had so many ongoing FO4 projects, I still haven’t got to modding Skyrim. Lately, I’m more hyped to try modding The Witcher 3, but that doesn’t mean I’ve given up modding Skyrim.

 

Actually, I got multiple requests to port over my Push Away mod. Even though Skyrim obviously has Fus Ro Dah it seems people still want this “harmless” way of shoving NPCs on Skyrim as well. I also believe there’s no reason for the real-time hair growing to be a FO4 exclusive either.

 

Do you have any mod authors who inspire you? Have you seen any mods recently where you have said “I wish I had thought of that?”

 

Pretty much everything by fadingsignal. I’m not at all envious I just think he has amazing mod ideas.

 

But in the very beginning, I was most inspired by Darren (DDProductions83) which is funny cause I believe we have absolute opposite personalities. But his mods were great, very unique and much needed, always showed a high level of skills, and his idea of creating the “Get To Know Your Mod Author (GTKYMA)” podcast series was spot-on. I remember always listening to the latest episodes while modding and wishing that maybe someday I will be one of those mod authors who he would consider having an interview with. (So you can imagine how I feel about this interview right now as well.) So “I got to know my mod authors” through Darren’s podcast and I became a big admirer of the amazing quality and presentation of Elianora’s and fadingsignal’s mods.

 

Later, while still having time to actually play the game, some of registrator2000’s mods became essential to my game such as the Outfit Switcher. His mods are always so innovative and inspiring, not to mention he always uploads his source codes so others can learn by studying them.

 

Much like reg2k’s mods, everything Expired6978 does are also game changers. He is an extremely talented and very smart mod author also working on F4SE, so I’m always looking forward to the innovative mods he comes up with.

 

Last but not least I’m also a huge fan of Skinnytecboy’s hilarious companion mods.

 

Talking of FadingSignal, I’m having a chat with him at the moment - is there anything you would like to ask him?

 

Actually, he was the one who invited me to that group chat I mentioned. We last spoke yesterday. He helped me with explosions, I helped him with radios.

 

Your mods have always been well received, but have you had to deal with any negative criticism?

 

Not really, no. The rudest comments always come from people offended by some radio content. Like jokes about a president named ‘Drumpt’ in West Vault Radio. Or the term ‘gopnik’ in Gopnik Radio’s title being a social slur in Russian. I don’t really get these types of offensive comments. I mean people can be offended by almost anything, I get that part, but they’re always welcome to not use a mod in a video game.

 

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Is there any feature you would like to see implemented on Nexus Mods that you feel would benefit our community?

 

I can think of two things right now.

 

The first one actually came from Gopher if I remember correctly. There was this huge thread not long ago about YouTube reviews and mod authors who don’t like their mods being reviewed by others who make money off of their work. And the idea was to add a feature that allows you to flag your mod pages whether you like your mods being reviewed or not. Me personally, I don’t mind YouTube reviews at all. I think of it as a symbiosis between mod authors and YouTube reviewers. Modders get more exposure in exchange for the free content they provide for video content creators.

 

But I can understand the viewpoint of others who don’t think of this the same way and with a feature like this, they could notify YouTubers that they don’t want their mods being used in this fashion. And as a result, YouTubers could do their mod searches with a filter and only review mods made by authors who are happy with this concept.

 

Another cool feature, in my opinion, would be an early access type of user right to certain mod pages. Mod authors would be able to grant access to certain users before releasing their mods thus inviting whoever they want to test their mods in earlier stages before releasing it to the public. This way testers would be able to see the mod page with all the essential instructions and use the Bugs section or the comments to help mod authors fixing issues before the initial release.

 

If you could only install 10 mods to your Fallout 4 installation what would they be?

 

• True Storms by fadingsignal
  
• Unlimited Companion Framework by Expired6978
  
• Achievements by Expired6978
  
• Outfit Switcher by registrator2000
  
• Infinite Settlement Budget by DDProductions83
  
• Shaikujin's Better Alerts
  
• DEF_UI by Neanka, Valdacil, Old Nick, ParasiteX and sekoms
  
• Valdacil's Item Sorting
  
• Full Dialogue Interface by Cirosan and shadwar
  
• Old World Radio - Boston
  

If you could offer any advice to up and coming mod authors what would they be?

 

Have a LOT of patience. Prepare for a huge amount of trial and fails. 90% of the time you spend on modding is about that. That’s why it’s very time-consuming. And that’s why it requires an extreme amount of dedication.

 

Know the game, play the game for at least 100 hours before trying to mod something. Don’t start modding without having a good idea about what you want to mod. After playing the game for awhile, you will know exactly what you want to change, fix or add to the game, and if you feel you have enough dedication, you are ready to find out how to do it.

 

Try learning as much as you can on your own. Only ask others if you feel you tried everything and still don’t make progress. There are a good amount of great tutorials out there by modders like Eli, fading, also Kris Takahashi started his Mod SCKool series recently. Everything you need in order to start modding is out there, all you need is the ability to find things on the internet. At least for the basics.

Mod authors are much more helpful if they see you did your homework, found out everything you could on your own and only need someone to point you in the right direction. You should never expect a mod author to spoon-feed you with information that a google search can give you in the form of a video tutorial.

 

Once you’ve learned the basics I believe there are three main pillars for a mod to be successful, and they are equally important in my opinion: a good idea, the quality of implementation and the quality of presentation.

 

If you did a great job implementing your mod and your mod page looks awesome but the mod has been done by dozens before you no one will care.

 

If you have a great idea and great presentation, a lot will download your mod but if it’s not tested thoroughly, people will be disappointed and you will spend the next couple of weeks fixing bugs.

And if your mod is a solid, original idea, and your implementation is spotless but your mod description consists of three sentences, no one will notice your work.

 

So to sum up: patience, dedication, patience, learning as much as you can on your own, patience, good ideas, patience, quality of implementation and presentation. And did I mention patience?

Thank you ever so much for talking to me, I wish you all the best in your future mods.

 

Thank you, Paul! I really appreciate this opportunity and looking forward to the next interviews in this awesome series.

 

[ousnius]

Interesting read as always. Thanks for the mention. ;)

[Loveblanket]

Couldn't disagree more about the mod review restriction. If you put it out there, people have the right to review it. There is absolutely no restriction against it. No permission is needed and even if a mod author said they don't want their mod reviewed there is nothing they can do about it legally so it wouldn't matter anyway. The idea that someone's work would be free from criticism is laughable and is never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind would want it to happen. What if drug companies could put out products and say that they can't be reviewed or regulated? Or, how about nobody checking out the food products on your store shelves? That isn't a world anyone wants except charlatans that put out shoddy products. Heck, there are people that would specifically review mods that said they didn't want to be reviewed and I wouldn't blame them. Edited March 5, 2017 by Loveblanket

[Crimsomrider]

Very lovely read, CDante is awesome ^^

[potaties]

I think the point is less "I don't want my mod to be criticized" and more "I don't want people to make money by showing off something that took me so many hours to release for free". It's a fair point. I think you're right in that there isn't anything a modder can do to stop it currently. Though maybe that could change in the future, somehow? I'm no lawyer so I can't say for sure!

[Crimsomrider]

In response to post #48146255. #48146575, #48147580, #48149420, #48155115 are all replies on the same post.

Loveblanket wrote: Couldn't disagree more about the mod review restriction. If you put it out there, people have the right to review it. There is absolutely no restriction against it. No permission is needed and even if a mod author said they don't want their mod reviewed there is nothing they can do about it legally so it wouldn't matter anyway. The idea that someone's work would be free from criticism is laughable and is never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind would want it to happen. What if drug companies could put out products and say that they can't be reviewed or regulated? Or, how about nobody checking out the food products on your store shelves? That isn't a world anyone wants except charlatans that put out shoddy products. Heck, there are people that would specifically review mods that said they didn't want to be reviewed and I wouldn't blame them.

snorlax420 wrote: I think the point is less "I don't want my mod to be criticized" and more "I don't want people to make money by showing off something that took me so many hours to release for free". It's a fair point. I think you're right in that there isn't anything a modder can do to stop it currently. Though maybe that could change in the future, somehow? I'm no lawyer so I can't say for sure!

cdante wrote: sorry, don't really want to go into an argument about this subject, just want to make something clear before it totally gets misunderstood.

"...the idea was to add a feature that allows you to flag your mod pages whether you like your mods being reviewed or not.(...) with a feature like this, they could notify YouTubers that they don’t want their mods being used in this fashion. And as a result, YouTubers could do their mod searches with a filter and only review mods made by authors who are happy with this concept."

maybe I wasn't clear enough but what I meant by that would be an actual tool for mod authors. like a checkbox. like many other checkboxes mod authors have when they edit the attributes of their mods. if you checked it, it would mean you don't like reviews. (or you like them. doesn't matter which way). but it would create a new filter for the site's search engine. just like an NSFW tag or a non-adult-only filter.
youtubers who respect this decision would use this filter and wouldn't bother with mods whose creators don't want reviews.

sorry if I wasn't clear. gonna play the English is my second language card. ;)

juicehead3311 wrote: Well I'm sorry you feel I misrepresented your mods. I particularly enjoyed the content you were putting out and I do read through the lore behind many of your mods. Now at the same time I work with a time restriction. Condensing a multi-paragraph story into a few sentences is sometimes hard for me personally and I truly am sorry if the result was me misrepresenting what you wanted it to say. At the same I do remember that video and I did encourage everyone to read it over for themselves.

As for speculation videos I personally love opening up the dialogue. I like doing the research on different things and posting my speculations on it online. Those videos typically have more of a conversation going on in the comments and I enjoy the engagement they provide. Describing them as "just for views and money" is a gross simplification and not why I make YouTube videos.

I am deeply sorry that my content made you think less of me. I just feel sending me an email, a PM on here, or even reaching out to me on my discord like many others have is a much more appropriate way to fix those issues. Regardless, I will no longer make videos on your mods. I don't want you to feel that I am unjustly profiting off of your hard work and in the future I am more than happy to stop covering the content of any mod author. You guys create a ton of free and really cool content that I personally enjoy covering and experiencing. I do not just look at modding as easy money and views (I have a "pay the bills" job).

GamerPoets wrote: First, I enjoyed the interview = )
Second, I agree that folks should have their preference respected when they create something. I personally reach out to mod authors before creating videos about their mods because I don't want to waste my time creating something that isn't wanted. The only time that I do create a tutorial for something when I can't get a hold of the mod author is if I get enough comments asking me to do so, if a mod author hasn't responded at all (didn't say yes or no) and its a part of something that I base an entire guide around (personal policy). Though, here's my two cents...

This would cause a split in the community, if it was used. Many mod users will be annoyed (being on one side of the fence or the other) with either youtubers or mod authors. Many youtubers who agree to not create videos for those mods won't be able to show any mod lists that they create or have guides on that incorporate those mods so the youtuber would omit that mod all together and teach their viewers to not (indirectly) use those mods to follow their guides (and probably some would say directly not to use them). Then a question would arise...would there be a way to differentiate between whether or not tutorials and showcases are the same thing? If that same mod author wants a tutorial (due to many people complaining that they can't install it) how does he or she justify that one person can create something about their mod but another can't? (its preference, cool, I get it, but many won't "get it" and will be put off by it.) What if a youtuber has a lets play or a lets roleplay series and uses one of these mods in it? It would technically be showcasing the mod when it pops up in the LP. If that's allowed or if a youtuber just uses it in an LP regardless, viewers may ask (if they like the mod) for the youtuber to showcase it. Then the youtuber (the ones who reply to comments) would say they can't showcase it and state why. Then that viewer would form a sort of "annoyance" towards that mod author.... and the list of things that I could expand upon along these lines is too long for me to care to do so = )

So back to my initial statements. Let mod authors do what they want. I respect it either way but be mindful of what could and will (in some form or another) happen even if mod authors were simply encouraged to write on their descriptions (don't showcase my mod) but to not have it directly enforced some how (an honor system). There will still be a growing disconnect between those authors who flag their content and the people that bring their creations publicly to thousands and millions of people (even for innocent reasons) and it would open a door to split mod users, mod creators, and video viewers down the middle on various issues/questions.

Perhaps a better solution would be to find a way to flag video creators who misrepresent a modders creations and force them to produce a better product or to not create a video if they can't respect the mod. No one will be upset (at least not many) and most will respect (again, only a small few wouldn't) the mod authors for not wanting his or her creations misrepresented and the youtubers who obey their wishes. However, you just can't go "too far" with it because then you would get into the area of "you are modifying game content that wasn't yours to begin with (I get people bashing modders frequently in my comments and I ban them from my channel as I'm friends with a large number of mod authors) and you don't want others to modify what you have modified or to share it in videos or you want to put restrictions on what some do for a living... (news reporters report news whether you want them too or not, whether it's accurate or not, about any subject on earth or beyond, that they want to report and whether it properly represents the subject at hand or not and they make a living from it.. even if it ruins peoples lives). So again, even if you find the best possible way to implement something like that there will always be an opening for a large split in the community, for those who actually care about it. People love to hate people on the internet. Just give them a reason too. Even if you can't enforce a video restriction (which you can't) but "politely" flag your file as "do not create a video of said mod"(via an honor system) it will still create this type of controversy. And the only content (video) creators who would respect a modders wishes are ones who care about the community and the authors creations in the first place. So you would reduce good media production on your mod and only have videos out there by youtubers who could care less about an authors wishes in the first place.

If the solution was "you can use my mod in a video you just can't monetize it" then you are going to get people (myself included) who would simply opt out of the mod all together ( i create tutorials that take from 50 to 200 hours to create and barely make enough money to keep my channel alive no matter personal income). A youtuber who creates playlists of tutorials or "Must Have Mods" videos that doesn't show a good mod because it can't be monetized?... well re-read everything that I already wrote. In my position, it's not hard to see the many potential outcomes even when done innocently and with good intentions.

That's not what he meant. It's not about that people don't want their mods reviewed, it's about people not wanting to earn money for mod reviews.

What he meant was that Youtubers are practically making money by showcasing mods. The one who made the mod in the long run does not get anything, but the Youtuber does. Why should people earn money for reviewing your mod ?

Look at MXR for example who now has 3 million subscribers and made a living by showcasing other people's mods which are FREE. Look at Juicehead, best example. I was following his mod reviews in the beginning until I noticed he is uploading pointless speculation videos each time he has no mods to review. No matter how misinformed his videos are, he keeps uploading them just for views and money.

He doesn't even review mods properly, he barely takes the time to do so and his thumbnails are taken from the *screenachers" directly. So basically he earns money by taking other people's content and "reviewing it".

I had plenty of my mods reviewed by him and he butchered 90% of them. I can understand that you can make one tiny mistake, but when you manage to butcher my story that comes with the mod, it is obvious you haven't been paying attention. You just took my mod, threw some bullshit story that you didn't pay attention to and "reviewed it". That's not reviewing a mod, that's false information and bad advertising. He made money off of my mod and badly advertised it.

My story was about a tragedy of a General's wife and he managed to butcher that story and turn into something like "the Minutemen found her and turned her into this machine". Does that sound like a proper review to you ?


So yeah... I agree with CDante. If people don't want youtubers to make money off their mods, they have a right to claim their video. Just like gaming companies can claim a video when you use their footage/content. Just look at Nintendo which claims a lot of videos, they do not allow reviews that much. I noticed a screenarcher who claimed a video for using their screenshot as thumbnail without proper credit.


EDIT : My bad, I admit I made a mistake and was quite rude for mentioning Juice. I just wanted to make a point to the first post on why some people might not want Youtubers to earn money for reviewing mods. I shouldn't have mentioned any names, unfortunately I was not thinking straight and therefore I wrote something without thinking about whom it may affect.

I sent an apology to you in a PM Juice, hopefully you read it and if you decide I'm the biggest asshole on the planet, I won't judge. I agree, what I did was stupid and rude, but I also admit when I'm stupid and rude. So hopefully I haven't offended too much and I hope my apology has helped in some way.

I won't edit the original comment because I won't hide the mistake of what I said, but I just wanted to prove a point on the topic at hand. I make mistakes sometimes... what can I say... I'm only human. Edited March 6, 2017 by Crimsomrider

[CDante]

In response to post #48146255. #48146575, #48146820 are all replies on the same post.

Loveblanket wrote: Couldn't disagree more about the mod review restriction. If you put it out there, people have the right to review it. There is absolutely no restriction against it. No permission is needed and even if a mod author said they don't want their mod reviewed there is nothing they can do about it legally so it wouldn't matter anyway. The idea that someone's work would be free from criticism is laughable and is never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind would want it to happen. What if drug companies could put out products and say that they can't be reviewed or regulated? Or, how about nobody checking out the food products on your store shelves? That isn't a world anyone wants except charlatans that put out shoddy products. Heck, there are people that would specifically review mods that said they didn't want to be reviewed and I wouldn't blame them.

snorlax420 wrote: I think the point is less "I don't want my mod to be criticized" and more "I don't want people to make money by showing off something that took me so many hours to release for free". It's a fair point. I think you're right in that there isn't anything a modder can do to stop it currently. Though maybe that could change in the future, somehow? I'm no lawyer so I can't say for sure!

Crimsomrider wrote: That's not what he meant. It's not about that people don't want their mods reviewed, it's about people not wanting to earn money for mod reviews.

What he meant was that Youtubers are practically making money by showcasing mods. The one who made the mod in the long run does not get anything, but the Youtuber does. Why should people earn money for reviewing your mod ?

Look at MXR for example who now has 3 million subscribers and made a living by showcasing other people's mods which are FREE. Look at Juicehead, best example. I was following his mod reviews in the beginning until I noticed he is uploading pointless speculation videos each time he has no mods to review. No matter how misinformed his videos are, he keeps uploading them just for views and money.

He doesn't even review mods properly, he barely takes the time to do so and his thumbnails are taken from the *screenachers" directly. So basically he earns money by taking other people's content and "reviewing it".

I had plenty of my mods reviewed by him and he butchered 90% of them. I can understand that you can make one tiny mistake, but when you manage to butcher my story that comes with the mod, it is obvious you haven't been paying attention. You just took my mod, threw some bullshit story that you didn't pay attention to and "reviewed it". That's not reviewing a mod, that's false information and bad advertising. He made money off of my mod and badly advertised it.

My story was about a tragedy of a General's wife and he managed to butcher that story and turn into something like "the Minutemen found her and turned her into this machine". Does that sound like a proper review to you ?


So yeah... I agree with CDante. If people don't want youtubers to make money off their mods, they have a right to claim their video. Just like gaming companies can claim a video when you use their footage/content. Just look at Nintendo which claims a lot of videos, they do not allow reviews that much. I noticed a screenarcher who claimed a video for using their screenshot as thumbnail without proper credit.

sorry, don't really want to go into an argument about this subject, just want to make something clear before it totally gets misunderstood.

"...the idea was to add a feature that allows you to flag your mod pages whether you like your mods being reviewed or not.(...) with a feature like this, they could notify YouTubers that they don’t want their mods being used in this fashion. And as a result, YouTubers could do their mod searches with a filter and only review mods made by authors who are happy with this concept."

maybe I wasn't clear enough but what I meant by that would be an actual tool for mod authors. like a checkbox. like many other checkboxes mod authors have when they edit the attributes of their mods. if you checked it, it would mean you don't like reviews. (or you like them. doesn't matter which way). but it would create a new filter for the site's search engine. just like an NSFW tag or a non-adult-only filter.
youtubers who respect this decision would use this filter and wouldn't bother with mods whose creators don't want reviews.

sorry if I wasn't clear. gonna play the English is my second language card. ;) Edited March 5, 2017 by cdante

[juicehead3311]

In response to post #48146255. #48146575, #48146820, #48147580 are all replies on the same post.

Loveblanket wrote: Couldn't disagree more about the mod review restriction. If you put it out there, people have the right to review it. There is absolutely no restriction against it. No permission is needed and even if a mod author said they don't want their mod reviewed there is nothing they can do about it legally so it wouldn't matter anyway. The idea that someone's work would be free from criticism is laughable and is never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind would want it to happen. What if drug companies could put out products and say that they can't be reviewed or regulated? Or, how about nobody checking out the food products on your store shelves? That isn't a world anyone wants except charlatans that put out shoddy products. Heck, there are people that would specifically review mods that said they didn't want to be reviewed and I wouldn't blame them.

snorlax420 wrote: I think the point is less "I don't want my mod to be criticized" and more "I don't want people to make money by showing off something that took me so many hours to release for free". It's a fair point. I think you're right in that there isn't anything a modder can do to stop it currently. Though maybe that could change in the future, somehow? I'm no lawyer so I can't say for sure!

Crimsomrider wrote: That's not what he meant. It's not about that people don't want their mods reviewed, it's about people not wanting to earn money for mod reviews.

What he meant was that Youtubers are practically making money by showcasing mods. The one who made the mod in the long run does not get anything, but the Youtuber does. Why should people earn money for reviewing your mod ?

Look at MXR for example who now has 3 million subscribers and made a living by showcasing other people's mods which are FREE. Look at Juicehead, best example. I was following his mod reviews in the beginning until I noticed he is uploading pointless speculation videos each time he has no mods to review. No matter how misinformed his videos are, he keeps uploading them just for views and money.

He doesn't even review mods properly, he barely takes the time to do so and his thumbnails are taken from the *screenachers" directly. So basically he earns money by taking other people's content and "reviewing it".

I had plenty of my mods reviewed by him and he butchered 90% of them. I can understand that you can make one tiny mistake, but when you manage to butcher my story that comes with the mod, it is obvious you haven't been paying attention. You just took my mod, threw some bullshit story that you didn't pay attention to and "reviewed it". That's not reviewing a mod, that's false information and bad advertising. He made money off of my mod and badly advertised it.

My story was about a tragedy of a General's wife and he managed to butcher that story and turn into something like "the Minutemen found her and turned her into this machine". Does that sound like a proper review to you ?


So yeah... I agree with CDante. If people don't want youtubers to make money off their mods, they have a right to claim their video. Just like gaming companies can claim a video when you use their footage/content. Just look at Nintendo which claims a lot of videos, they do not allow reviews that much. I noticed a screenarcher who claimed a video for using their screenshot as thumbnail without proper credit.

cdante wrote: sorry, don't really want to go into an argument about this subject, just want to make something clear before it totally gets misunderstood.

"...the idea was to add a feature that allows you to flag your mod pages whether you like your mods being reviewed or not.(...) with a feature like this, they could notify YouTubers that they don’t want their mods being used in this fashion. And as a result, YouTubers could do their mod searches with a filter and only review mods made by authors who are happy with this concept."

maybe I wasn't clear enough but what I meant by that would be an actual tool for mod authors. like a checkbox. like many other checkboxes mod authors have when they edit the attributes of their mods. if you checked it, it would mean you don't like reviews. (or you like them. doesn't matter which way). but it would create a new filter for the site's search engine. just like an NSFW tag or a non-adult-only filter.
youtubers who respect this decision would use this filter and wouldn't bother with mods whose creators don't want reviews.

sorry if I wasn't clear. gonna play the English is my second language card. ;)

Well I'm sorry you feel I misrepresented your mods. I particularly enjoyed the content you were putting out and I do read through the lore behind many of your mods. Now at the same time I work with a time restriction. Condensing a multi-paragraph story into a few sentences is sometimes hard for me personally and I truly am sorry if the result was me misrepresenting what you wanted it to say. At the same I do remember that video and I did encourage everyone to read it over for themselves.

As for speculation videos I personally love opening up the dialogue. I like doing the research on different things and posting my speculations on it online. Those videos typically have more of a conversation going on in the comments and I enjoy the engagement they provide. Describing them as "just for views and money" is a gross simplification and not why I make YouTube videos.

I am deeply sorry that my content made you think less of me. I just feel sending me an email, a PM on here, or even reaching out to me on my discord like many others have is a much more appropriate way to fix those issues. Regardless, I will no longer make videos on your mods. I don't want you to feel that I am unjustly profiting off of your hard work and in the future I am more than happy to stop covering the content of any mod author. You guys create a ton of free and really cool content that I personally enjoy covering and experiencing. I do not just look at modding as easy money and views (I have a "pay the bills" job).

[pocketsizerules]

I've only been occasionally reading these, I really should read more. I think I've only skimmed the last couple I saw, because they were Skyrim-related, and I've not modded it.

 

But this one was really good, thank you!

 

I've learned a lot over the last 2 years of modding. And the lessons CDante's metioned are helpful info.

I started with radio mods, too, so info about bugs like that is stuff I'll file away.

 

I've just finished playing Fallout 4 this week - I was too busy modding when it came out, and only started it at Christmas. Not sure if I want to mod F4 yet or not, the scripting differences from F3/FNV are pretty huge!

[GamerPoets]

In response to post #48146255. #48146575, #48146820, #48147580, #48149420 are all replies on the same post.

Loveblanket wrote: Couldn't disagree more about the mod review restriction. If you put it out there, people have the right to review it. There is absolutely no restriction against it. No permission is needed and even if a mod author said they don't want their mod reviewed there is nothing they can do about it legally so it wouldn't matter anyway. The idea that someone's work would be free from criticism is laughable and is never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind would want it to happen. What if drug companies could put out products and say that they can't be reviewed or regulated? Or, how about nobody checking out the food products on your store shelves? That isn't a world anyone wants except charlatans that put out shoddy products. Heck, there are people that would specifically review mods that said they didn't want to be reviewed and I wouldn't blame them.

snorlax420 wrote: I think the point is less "I don't want my mod to be criticized" and more "I don't want people to make money by showing off something that took me so many hours to release for free". It's a fair point. I think you're right in that there isn't anything a modder can do to stop it currently. Though maybe that could change in the future, somehow? I'm no lawyer so I can't say for sure!

Crimsomrider wrote: That's not what he meant. It's not about that people don't want their mods reviewed, it's about people not wanting to earn money for mod reviews.

What he meant was that Youtubers are practically making money by showcasing mods. The one who made the mod in the long run does not get anything, but the Youtuber does. Why should people earn money for reviewing your mod ?

Look at MXR for example who now has 3 million subscribers and made a living by showcasing other people's mods which are FREE. Look at Juicehead, best example. I was following his mod reviews in the beginning until I noticed he is uploading pointless speculation videos each time he has no mods to review. No matter how misinformed his videos are, he keeps uploading them just for views and money.

He doesn't even review mods properly, he barely takes the time to do so and his thumbnails are taken from the *screenachers" directly. So basically he earns money by taking other people's content and "reviewing it".

I had plenty of my mods reviewed by him and he butchered 90% of them. I can understand that you can make one tiny mistake, but when you manage to butcher my story that comes with the mod, it is obvious you haven't been paying attention. You just took my mod, threw some bullshit story that you didn't pay attention to and "reviewed it". That's not reviewing a mod, that's false information and bad advertising. He made money off of my mod and badly advertised it.

My story was about a tragedy of a General's wife and he managed to butcher that story and turn into something like "the Minutemen found her and turned her into this machine". Does that sound like a proper review to you ?


So yeah... I agree with CDante. If people don't want youtubers to make money off their mods, they have a right to claim their video. Just like gaming companies can claim a video when you use their footage/content. Just look at Nintendo which claims a lot of videos, they do not allow reviews that much. I noticed a screenarcher who claimed a video for using their screenshot as thumbnail without proper credit.

cdante wrote: sorry, don't really want to go into an argument about this subject, just want to make something clear before it totally gets misunderstood.

"...the idea was to add a feature that allows you to flag your mod pages whether you like your mods being reviewed or not.(...) with a feature like this, they could notify YouTubers that they don’t want their mods being used in this fashion. And as a result, YouTubers could do their mod searches with a filter and only review mods made by authors who are happy with this concept."

maybe I wasn't clear enough but what I meant by that would be an actual tool for mod authors. like a checkbox. like many other checkboxes mod authors have when they edit the attributes of their mods. if you checked it, it would mean you don't like reviews. (or you like them. doesn't matter which way). but it would create a new filter for the site's search engine. just like an NSFW tag or a non-adult-only filter.
youtubers who respect this decision would use this filter and wouldn't bother with mods whose creators don't want reviews.

sorry if I wasn't clear. gonna play the English is my second language card. ;)

juicehead3311 wrote: Well I'm sorry you feel I misrepresented your mods. I particularly enjoyed the content you were putting out and I do read through the lore behind many of your mods. Now at the same time I work with a time restriction. Condensing a multi-paragraph story into a few sentences is sometimes hard for me personally and I truly am sorry if the result was me misrepresenting what you wanted it to say. At the same I do remember that video and I did encourage everyone to read it over for themselves.

As for speculation videos I personally love opening up the dialogue. I like doing the research on different things and posting my speculations on it online. Those videos typically have more of a conversation going on in the comments and I enjoy the engagement they provide. Describing them as "just for views and money" is a gross simplification and not why I make YouTube videos.

I am deeply sorry that my content made you think less of me. I just feel sending me an email, a PM on here, or even reaching out to me on my discord like many others have is a much more appropriate way to fix those issues. Regardless, I will no longer make videos on your mods. I don't want you to feel that I am unjustly profiting off of your hard work and in the future I am more than happy to stop covering the content of any mod author. You guys create a ton of free and really cool content that I personally enjoy covering and experiencing. I do not just look at modding as easy money and views (I have a "pay the bills" job).

First, I enjoyed the interview = )
Second, I agree that folks should have their preference respected when they create something. I personally reach out to mod authors before creating videos about their mods because I don't want to waste my time creating something that isn't wanted. The only time that I do create a tutorial for something when I can't get a hold of the mod author is if I get enough comments asking me to do so, if a mod author hasn't responded at all (didn't say yes or no) and its a part of something that I base an entire guide around (personal policy). Though, here's my two cents...

This would cause a split in the community, if it was used. Many mod users will be annoyed (being on one side of the fence or the other) with either youtubers or mod authors. Many youtubers who agree to not create videos for those mods won't be able to show any mod lists that they create or have guides on that incorporate those mods so the youtuber would omit that mod all together and teach their viewers to not (indirectly) use those mods to follow their guides (and probably some would say directly not to use them). Then a question would arise...would there be a way to differentiate between whether or not tutorials and showcases are the same thing? If that same mod author wants a tutorial (due to many people complaining that they can't install it) how does he or she justify that one person can create something about their mod but another can't? (its preference, cool, I get it, but many won't "get it" and will be put off by it.) What if a youtuber has a lets play or a lets roleplay series and uses one of these mods in it? It would technically be showcasing the mod when it pops up in the LP. If that's allowed or if a youtuber just uses it in an LP regardless, viewers may ask (if they like the mod) for the youtuber to showcase it. Then the youtuber (the ones who reply to comments) would say they can't showcase it and state why. Then that viewer would form a sort of "annoyance" towards that mod author.... and the list of things that I could expand upon along these lines is too long for me to care to do so = )

So back to my initial statements. Let mod authors do what they want. I respect it either way but be mindful of what could and will (in some form or another) happen even if mod authors were simply encouraged to write on their descriptions (don't showcase my mod) but to not have it directly enforced some how (an honor system). There will still be a growing disconnect between those authors who flag their content and the people that bring their creations publicly to thousands and millions of people (even for innocent reasons) and it would open a door to split mod users, mod creators, and video viewers down the middle on various issues/questions.

Perhaps a better solution would be to find a way to flag video creators who misrepresent a modders creations and force them to produce a better product or to not create a video if they can't respect the mod. No one will be upset (at least not many) and most will respect (again, only a small few wouldn't) the mod authors for not wanting his or her creations misrepresented and the youtubers who obey their wishes. However, you just can't go "too far" with it because then you would get into the area of "you are modifying game content that wasn't yours to begin with (I get people bashing modders frequently in my comments and I ban them from my channel as I'm friends with a large number of mod authors) and you don't want others to modify what you have modified or to share it in videos or you want to put restrictions on what some do for a living... (news reporters report news whether you want them too or not, whether it's accurate or not, about any subject on earth or beyond, that they want to report and whether it properly represents the subject at hand or not and they make a living from it.. even if it ruins peoples lives). So again, even if you find the best possible way to implement something like that there will always be an opening for a large split in the community, for those who actually care about it. People love to hate people on the internet. Just give them a reason too. Even if you can't enforce a video restriction (which you can't) but "politely" flag your file as "do not create a video of said mod"(via an honor system) it will still create this type of controversy. And the only content (video) creators who would respect a modders wishes are ones who care about the community and the authors creations in the first place. So you would reduce good media production on your mod and only have videos out there by youtubers who could care less about an authors wishes in the first place.

If the solution was "you can use my mod in a video you just can't monetize it" then you are going to get people (myself included) who would simply opt out of the mod all together ( i create tutorials that take from 50 to 200 hours to create and barely make enough money to keep my channel alive no matter personal income). A youtuber who creates playlists of tutorials or "Must Have Mods" videos that doesn't show a good mod because it can't be monetized?... well re-read everything that I already wrote. In my position, it's not hard to see the many potential outcomes even when done innocently and with good intentions. Edited March 6, 2017 by GamerPoets