marharth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The thing is quite a few people consider steam a good enough service. The DRM on steam is nothing compared to GFWL or other services. I am not convinced people will make enough money off their games when they trade them into a second hand market. You sell a old game for 10 dollars, the company resells it for 30. You do the math. The devs still lose profit. The game that the company resells for 30 can be sold directly by the dev for less, it skips the entire process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) The thing is quite a few people consider steam a good enough service. The DRM on steam is nothing compared to GFWL or other services.people say that... but I just uninstalled it on F3, so it really wasn't an issue in that case. I am not convinced people will make enough money off their games when they trade them into a second hand market. You sell a old game for 10 dollars, the company resells it for 30. You do the math. The devs still lose profit. The game that the company resells for 30 can be sold directly by the dev for less, it skips the entire process.If I have some time I'll try digging for some economics stuff on second hand markets. But in your scenario. what happens is that the the guy selling the game now has 10$ more than he had to potentially reinvest in a new game that he otherwise did not have. Edited February 1, 2012 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The thing is quite a few people consider steam a good enough service. The DRM on steam is nothing compared to GFWL or other services.people say that... but I just uninstalled it on F3, so it really wasn't an issue in that case. I am not convinced people will make enough money off their games when they trade them into a second hand market. You sell a old game for 10 dollars, the company resells it for 30. You do the math. The devs still lose profit. The game that the company resells for 30 can be sold directly by the dev for less, it skips the entire process.If I have some time I'll try digging for some economics stuff on second hand markets. But in your scenario. what happens is that the the guy selling the game now has 10$ more than he had to potentially reinvest in a new game that he otherwise did not have.You have 10 dollars more. On a individual level you might help the dev, but the big picture makes you hurt the dev. As I said you trade in a game for 10 dollars, they sell it for 30. The person who bought the game for 30 could of bought it directly from the dev for the same price, if not less. The dev still would have made more profit without the second hand market. What is really the issue with steam DRM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) The thing is quite a few people consider steam a good enough service. The DRM on steam is nothing compared to GFWL or other services.people say that... but I just uninstalled it on F3, so it really wasn't an issue in that case. I am not convinced people will make enough money off their games when they trade them into a second hand market. You sell a old game for 10 dollars, the company resells it for 30. You do the math. The devs still lose profit. The game that the company resells for 30 can be sold directly by the dev for less, it skips the entire process.If I have some time I'll try digging for some economics stuff on second hand markets. But in your scenario. what happens is that the the guy selling the game now has 10$ more than he had to potentially reinvest in a new game that he otherwise did not have.You have 10 dollars more. On a individual level you might help the dev, but the big picture makes you hurt the dev. As I said you trade in a game for 10 dollars, they sell it for 30. The person who bought the game for 30 could of bought it directly from the dev for the same price, if not less. The dev still would have made more profit without the second hand market.What you are complaining about is retail mark up prices not so much second hand sales, You don't buy directly from the developer when you buy through Steam, Valve takes a nice cut of which doesn't go directly to the developer. It's probably all publishers roping in the big profits anyway, they want their return on investment too. From what have read it's not seen as a bad thing for a market. Buyers have a max budget to spend regardless. The usual example for a second hand market is used cars. What is really the issue with steam DRM?I already gave at least 5 reasons why it's annoying. in a nut shell, it's pointless crap that detracts from the service/product. It actually devalues the game Edited February 1, 2012 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The thing is quite a few people consider steam a good enough service. The DRM on steam is nothing compared to GFWL or other services.people say that... but I just uninstalled it on F3, so it really wasn't an issue in that case. I am not convinced people will make enough money off their games when they trade them into a second hand market. You sell a old game for 10 dollars, the company resells it for 30. You do the math. The devs still lose profit. The game that the company resells for 30 can be sold directly by the dev for less, it skips the entire process.If I have some time I'll try digging for some economics stuff on second hand markets. But in your scenario. what happens is that the the guy selling the game now has 10$ more than he had to potentially reinvest in a new game that he otherwise did not have.You have 10 dollars more. On a individual level you might help the dev, but the big picture makes you hurt the dev. As I said you trade in a game for 10 dollars, they sell it for 30. The person who bought the game for 30 could of bought it directly from the dev for the same price, if not less. The dev still would have made more profit without the second hand market.What you are complaining about is retail mark up prices not so much second hand sales, You don't buy directly from the developer when you buy through Steam, Valve takes a nice cut of which doesn't go directly to the developer. It's probably all publishers roping in the big profits anyway, they want their return on investment too. From what have read it's not seen as a bad thing for a market. Buyers have a max budget to spend regardless. The usual example for a second hand market is used cars. What is really the issue with steam DRM?I already gave at least 5 reasons why it's annoying. in a nut shell, it's pointless crap that detracts from the service/product. It actually devalues the gameIs there any game store that doesn't put up prices? I have never heard of a store that will buy something for the same price as it sells somethings. Getting half or a cut is better then getting nothing. You dislike steam DRM because you have to make a account? I don't get why that is a problem. You have to make accounts for a lot of things these days, its not very hard to do and you only have to do it once. Activating the game isn't much different then using a code on a box or in a guidebook. I don't see any other arguments besides the second hand market stuff. DRM is bad yes, but steam DRM isn't that bad. I already mentioned GFWL, but have you seen the s*** ubisoft uses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleGlitch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would like to reply to something said about my early post. I don't believe piracy would be removed completely, that is insane. My a student in Networking and Security and setting up a simple server to the internet isn't to difficult. However, I do believe sites having a stronger policy can reduce it enough so that acts like these wouldn't even be suggested. Simply said if some is able to type in to Google "Free (insert file here)" and get something they shouldn't be for free, websites are really trying to hard to stop piracy. It will always be there, but the least they could do is make it harder for pirates to gain access to the general public. In a since cause a well defined line between legal websites and those for pirating as to avoid the mix feelings about things such as megaupload. It is a really big job, but then again look at this site. Piracy is shut down pretty quick on nexus even though the staff is fairly small. One of the biggest reasons behind my argument is that of those of us that appose stuff like ACTA and SOPA need to show that we do not stand with pirates and that we do not support their activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Getting half or a cut is better then getting nothing.before we go further into why that isn't what happens: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/technology/28scene.html?ex=1280203200&en=33765024cbf62d4c&ei=5090&partner=techdirt&emc=rsshttps://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/119012/1/TEM1993-1_73-85p.pdf You dislike steam DRM because you have to make a account? I don't get why that is a problem. You have to make accounts for a lot of things these days, its not very hard to do and you only have to do it once. Activating the game isn't much different then using a code on a box or in a guidebook. It serves no purpose in to the game, and in fact actually devalues the product you are buying. If it is only to combat piracy, it's only assuming you the customer are stealing it, as it is bypassed in piracy, making it retarded I have to have it.You have to sign up to an unnecessary service, It has nothing to do with the game at all, install bloat software which always runs. Automatic updates! Now it's your turn to name any reason why you might like DRM on your games. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Getting half or a cut is better then getting nothing.before we go further into why that isn't what happens: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/technology/28scene.html?ex=1280203200&en=33765024cbf62d4c&ei=5090&partner=techdirt&emc=rsshttps://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/119012/1/TEM1993-1_73-85p.pdf You dislike steam DRM because you have to make a account? I don't get why that is a problem. You have to make accounts for a lot of things these days, its not very hard to do and you only have to do it once. Activating the game isn't much different then using a code on a box or in a guidebook. It serves no purpose in to the game, and in fact actually devalues the product you are buying. If it is only to combat piracy, it's only assuming you the customer are stealing it, as it is bypassed in piracy, making it retarded I have to have it.You have to sign up to an unnecessary service, It has nothing to do with the game at all, install bloat software which always runs. Automatic updates! Now it's your turn to name any reason why you might like DRM on your games. :laugh:Don't get me wrong, I dislike DRM too. Its just that the service isn't too terribly bad when you compare what happens when you have to pirate things. It is fairly easy to organize and you can get things done fast. I am simply suggesting that people have moved to steam instead of pirating games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 DRM isn't a service to me, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 DRM isn't a service to me,Steam isn't just DRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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