""ATTENTION"" STOP ACTA!

[Ghogiel]

Steam isn't DRM at all. Steamworks is what I am talking about, not Steam. I have no issue with Steam, if people want to use it by all means.

[marharth]

I was talking about steam p.p

[HeyYou]

Steam does nothing to combat piracy. In fact, DRM in general is totally ineffective. Sure, you may lose some multiplayer aspects of a given game, but, for all intents and purposes, for beth games, that is irrelevant, as they don't make any multiplayer games.... (that I am aware of) The more draconian the DRM becomes, the HIGHER The likelihood that someone will pirate the game, instead of buying it, simply because of the hoop jumping required to get a 'legit' version to run. Pirates don't have that problem.

 

If I am playing a demanding game (as far as computer hardware is concerned) Why would I want to waste ANY resources at all, running some background software that I have zero use for? For a lot of folks, Steam brings nothing to the table. There is not a single Steam feature that I want, or need. None. Zero. I would MUCH rather have the processing power being wasted on steam, put to better use running the GAME. I play SINGLE player games. I don't want/need a social network WHILE I am playing.

 

Some folks like steam, and can live with it. Other folks just don't care, and just want to play the game. Still others detest steam, and anything similar. (GFWL for instance. please note beth only released ONE game that required it.) Everyone has their own view on it. Please do not assume that "your" view (no matter which) is the "only right" view. For me, If I buy a real disk, of a single player game, I shouldn't have to have some third-party bloatware running in the background to play it.

[marharth]

Steam does nothing to combat piracy. In fact, DRM in general is totally ineffective. Sure, you may lose some multiplayer aspects of a given game, but, for all intents and purposes, for beth games, that is irrelevant, as they don't make any multiplayer games.... (that I am aware of) The more draconian the DRM becomes, the HIGHER The likelihood that someone will pirate the game, instead of buying it, simply because of the hoop jumping required to get a 'legit' version to run. Pirates don't have that problem.

 

If I am playing a demanding game (as far as computer hardware is concerned) Why would I want to waste ANY resources at all, running some background software that I have zero use for? For a lot of folks, Steam brings nothing to the table. There is not a single Steam feature that I want, or need. None. Zero. I would MUCH rather have the processing power being wasted on steam, put to better use running the GAME. I play SINGLE player games. I don't want/need a social network WHILE I am playing.

 

Some folks like steam, and can live with it. Other folks just don't care, and just want to play the game. Still others detest steam, and anything similar. (GFWL for instance. please note beth only released ONE game that required it.) Everyone has their own view on it. Please do not assume that "your" view (no matter which) is the "only right" view. For me, If I buy a real disk, of a single player game, I shouldn't have to have some third-party bloatware running in the background to play it.

There are a large number of people who used to pirate games because there was no good online service that let them buy them. Steam did help with piracy.

[Syco21]

Oh yes, piracy. The destroyer of worlds and lives! It is because of piracy that the gaming industry isn't the fastest growing segment of the entertainment industry.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM8PT1eAvY

 

Blargh, can't be bothered with the sarcastic post. Point is, the gaming industry is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. It already dwarfs the music industry, and is on it's way to catching up with, if not surpassing, the film industry. Never the less, all three of these industries are seeing growth and atleast two are posting record profits. So if piracy is such a horrible threat to these industries, then why are they growing? I can almost guarantee you that any issues with any of these industries has little to nothing to do with piracy.

 

For starters, the 'lost revenue' claims bandied about by the industry are founded on baseless conjecture, the theory that each illegal download automatically equate a lost sale. Some *cough* music industry *cough* even throw in bonus supposition. They do this by multiplying their claims with numbers based on nothing more than pure guesswork. This is utter hogwash.

 

There, of course, are the arguments that multiple people will download the same information(be it software, movies, music etc) multiple times. That many people will proceed to download the superior, pirated versions of things they have legitimately purchased for the obvious, already stated reason of it being superior. It does not matter how often it happens, the fact is that it does and that it alone disproves the arguments that 1 download equals 1 lost sale. But then there are also the arguments that not everyone that pirates would have purchased the product anyway. I realize that many people do not like this particular argument. It's inconvient and who the hell are we to allow a little thing like truth get in the way of a good ole fashioned witchhunt!?

 

I know someone is going to take issue with me comparing this issue with a witchhunt. But I'll just say this, buttons to dollars says that someone, or many someones, will come along and automatically label me as a pirate without any proof whatsoever all because I dare to stand up and point out the flaws in the arguments put forward by the industry lobbyists. But I digress, back to the issue at hand.

 

The music industry is the slowest growing of the three, it posted only a 1% growth for one of the past recent years, can't remember if it was '09 or '10. The point is, the music industry seems to be staggering. Of course many people are going to take this to mean that the music industry is suffering from rampant piracy. And that may be the case! But that's hardly the biggest threat to the music industry, let alone the only one. The music industry has spectacularly failed to adapt to changing markets, this is what drove many people to piracy in the first place. The inability to obtain the music people wanted at reasonable prices was a big reason many people resorted to piracy for their music needs. There was no legitimate music distribution when online music piracy was at it's height. If you wanted to purchase music, you only had one option. Over priced albums, often times filled with crap music. Nobody wants to pay $15-$20 for 2-3 songs.

 

Furthermore, CDs take up space, and a lot of it. With MP3 players coming onto the scene, many people would rip their music to their computers, transfer it to their MP3 players or a CD rom to play on an MP3 CD player. Then they have little to no use for those CDs. So it was either throw them out, or let them collect dust and take up space. But wait! All of a sudden someone figures out that they can share their collection with millions of people instead of just their close friends. And in return, millions of people can share their collections with the first person. All of a sudden, there is this vast library of free music, already in the appropriate format for use with burnable CDs and MP3 players. No longer do you have to drive to the store, spend $20 on a CD so you can have that one song, drive home, rip that CD to your computer and then transfer that one song to your media of choice. But now you can pick and choose what you get and it wont cost you a damned thing. As an added bonus, you didn't even have to leave your room! Genius!

 

The music industry hated this, and rightly so! It was at that time, direct competition for their precious sales model. I mean, here is the music industry, not listening to their consumers, not giving them what they want and overcharging for what little they do offer. Then here comes along piracy, giving people precisely what they want and at a price that just can't be beat. But the issue here wasn't piracy, it was the music industries unwillingness to adapt to new technologies. They weren't just unwilling to adapt though, they were utterly hostile to anything they couldn't immediately figure out a way to tightly control and monetize. Before the war on piracy, they tried to kill off MP3 players. It wasn't just MP3 players either, though, the industry has a very long history of trying to kill off new technologies. If it wasn't MP3 players, it was burnable CDs. Before burnable CDs, it was tape recorders. Before tape recorders it was records, before records it was the phonograph.

 

Eventually the record industry was forced to adapt to this new market. But they wouldn't do so willingly. They fought it every step of the way, it was slow and painful. When they first started offering music online, it was very limited. They sure as hell wasn't done with their fight with MP3s either. They declared that ripping CDs to your computer for your own personal use was piracy and illegal. They brought in heavily restrictive DRM. Some companies even utilized viruses in their fight. Even though they finally started offering downloadable music, it wasn't even. As I stated, it was limited. So piracy still had the upper hand. They had a much larger library to choose from, and again it was free. Something I failed to mention earlier, was that piracy was (and still is for god's sake!) the only way to acquire certain tracks, a major issue only compounded by region locks.

 

Finally after a long time, the legitimate music stores were able to offer up respectable libraries for consumption. Even though this was largely too little, too late, they still managed to convert a lot of pirates. Proving that the issue was simply that the industry had not properly adapts to the needs and demands of the market. But even that wasn't enough. A while back, Amazon was offering music for ridiculously low prices. How low you ask? Amazon took a loss on every sale because the price didn't even cover the royalties! Despite still getting paid the full amount, the RIAA took serious issue with this matter. How did they resolve it? By bribing Amazon with significantly lower royalties to raise their prices. That's right, the RIAA took a freaking pay cut to stop people from being able to legitimate purchase songs at a cheaper rate!

 

So yes, at one time piracy actually posed a threat to the recording industry. But they have more or less overcome that now. So why are they still 'suffering'? Because money is finite. The video game industry, with it's rapid growth, is serious competition to the other two industries. So while all three industries are growing, the film and video game industry is soaking up most of that growth. As it happens, the music industry missed their opportunity to shine. Now it's the video game industry's turn. They have more or less learned from the music industry's mistakes and are in a much better position to capitalize on the market. And they have done so, hence their success. I'm too tired to expound upon this subject anymore, so I'll just leave you with the conclusion.

 

The music industry's troubles, if they actually exist, are entirely their own fault. Yes, piracy was an issue for the music industry. But that was the result of their flatout refusal to adapt to the changing demands and needs of the market. Because of this, they missed out on an opportunity to grow and become far more prosperous. They have no one to blame but themselves.

 

I'm done, at least for now. If you've actually read this far.... Wow is all I can say. G'night, Nexus.

[slimhouse]

Digital Rights Management is a good thing if it cuts piracy (in it's many forms) and Protects all the Jobs

and Careers of all those (individuals) in the Software/Games/Development/Music industries.

 

But a balance is needed, otherwise if (they) those that set-out said DRM feel it is not working then they

may feel the only option is to 'go after' - restrict the hardware/supply chain through further government bills.

 

That would mean PC's/Desktops/Laptops/Portables/Tablets etc. could be 'Capped' in, power and usage areas.

 

Though this would/could mean potential Job losses migrating from the Software industry to the Hardware industry..!?

 

I hope they get the balance right..? What we can all do is (tell yourself) '...the parties over!

Time to get behind these industries/individuals and pay a fair @buck for a fair thing..!!

Edited February 3, 2012 by slimhouse

[HeyYou]

Steam does nothing to combat piracy. In fact, DRM in general is totally ineffective. Sure, you may lose some multiplayer aspects of a given game, but, for all intents and purposes, for beth games, that is irrelevant, as they don't make any multiplayer games.... (that I am aware of) The more draconian the DRM becomes, the HIGHER The likelihood that someone will pirate the game, instead of buying it, simply because of the hoop jumping required to get a 'legit' version to run. Pirates don't have that problem.

 

If I am playing a demanding game (as far as computer hardware is concerned) Why would I want to waste ANY resources at all, running some background software that I have zero use for? For a lot of folks, Steam brings nothing to the table. There is not a single Steam feature that I want, or need. None. Zero. I would MUCH rather have the processing power being wasted on steam, put to better use running the GAME. I play SINGLE player games. I don't want/need a social network WHILE I am playing.

 

Some folks like steam, and can live with it. Other folks just don't care, and just want to play the game. Still others detest steam, and anything similar. (GFWL for instance. please note beth only released ONE game that required it.) Everyone has their own view on it. Please do not assume that "your" view (no matter which) is the "only right" view. For me, If I buy a real disk, of a single player game, I shouldn't have to have some third-party bloatware running in the background to play it.

There are a large number of people who used to pirate games because there was no good online service that let them buy them. Steam did help with piracy.

 

No it didn't. Saying "steam helps prevent piracy" would also then mean that so does Direct2Drive, or any other online distribution method. That is just not the case. If folks want something, they will go get it. If it isn't available in their area, (due to laws/restrictions/mommy won't let them) then they may look for alternate methods.

 

Digital Rights Management is a good thing if it cuts piracy (in it's many forms) and Protects all the Jobs

and Careers of all those (individuals) in the Software/Games/Development/Music industries.

 

But a balance is needed, otherwise if (they) those that set-out said DRM feel it is not working then they

may feel the only option is to 'go after' - restrict the hardware/supply chain through further government bills.

 

That would mean PC's/Desktops/Laptops/Portables/Tablets etc. could be 'Capped' in, power and usage areas.

 

Though this would/could mean potential Job losses migrating from the Software industry to the Hardware industry..!?

 

I hope they get the balance right..? What we can all do is (tell yourself) '...the parties over!

Time to get behind these industries/individuals and pay a fair @buck for a fair thing..!!

 

That's just it though, DRM does NOT do a damn thing to prevent piracy. Take a look at past history, the games with the most intrusive DRM, were also the most pirated games of their day. DRM is counter-productive.

[marharth]

Steam does nothing to combat piracy. In fact, DRM in general is totally ineffective. Sure, you may lose some multiplayer aspects of a given game, but, for all intents and purposes, for beth games, that is irrelevant, as they don't make any multiplayer games.... (that I am aware of) The more draconian the DRM becomes, the HIGHER The likelihood that someone will pirate the game, instead of buying it, simply because of the hoop jumping required to get a 'legit' version to run. Pirates don't have that problem.

 

If I am playing a demanding game (as far as computer hardware is concerned) Why would I want to waste ANY resources at all, running some background software that I have zero use for? For a lot of folks, Steam brings nothing to the table. There is not a single Steam feature that I want, or need. None. Zero. I would MUCH rather have the processing power being wasted on steam, put to better use running the GAME. I play SINGLE player games. I don't want/need a social network WHILE I am playing.

 

Some folks like steam, and can live with it. Other folks just don't care, and just want to play the game. Still others detest steam, and anything similar. (GFWL for instance. please note beth only released ONE game that required it.) Everyone has their own view on it. Please do not assume that "your" view (no matter which) is the "only right" view. For me, If I buy a real disk, of a single player game, I shouldn't have to have some third-party bloatware running in the background to play it.

There are a large number of people who used to pirate games because there was no good online service that let them buy them. Steam did help with piracy.

 

No it didn't. Saying "steam helps prevent piracy" would also then mean that so does Direct2Drive, or any other online distribution method. That is just not the case. If folks want something, they will go get it. If it isn't available in their area, (due to laws/restrictions/mommy won't let them) then they may look for alternate methods.

 

Digital Rights Management is a good thing if it cuts piracy (in it's many forms) and Protects all the Jobs

and Careers of all those (individuals) in the Software/Games/Development/Music industries.

 

But a balance is needed, otherwise if (they) those that set-out said DRM feel it is not working then they

may feel the only option is to 'go after' - restrict the hardware/supply chain through further government bills.

 

That would mean PC's/Desktops/Laptops/Portables/Tablets etc. could be 'Capped' in, power and usage areas.

 

Though this would/could mean potential Job losses migrating from the Software industry to the Hardware industry..!?

 

I hope they get the balance right..? What we can all do is (tell yourself) '...the parties over!

Time to get behind these industries/individuals and pay a fair @buck for a fair thing..!!

 

That's just it though, DRM does NOT do a damn thing to prevent piracy. Take a look at past history, the games with the most intrusive DRM, were also the most pirated games of their day. DRM is counter-productive.

I know a number of people who used to pirate but went over to steam because it is a simpler system. It allows for easy management and it has online purchases. It is more reliable. You can buy a game anywhere from any country. You can hate steam as much as you want but it doesn't change the fact that it helps stop some pirates. Digital distribution in general helps against piracy.

 

You seem to have the false impression that everyone who pirates a game does it because they are bad people who just don't like spending money. That is not the case at all, piracy happens for multiple reasons and some of them can be justified.

 

I don't understand why you think steam DRM is so restrictive. DRM is bad yes, but Steam games don't have serious DRM at all compared to other games. Look at things like GTA 4 and pretty much every Ubisoft game and try to tell me that Steam DRM is terrible. Steam has very little DRM and is not a huge issue with steam at all.

[Syco21]

Steam DRM is terrible.

 

Required internet connection, shoddy offline mode. That is too much.

[marharth]

Steam DRM is terrible.

 

Required internet connection, shoddy offline mode. That is too much.

You don't have to stay online to play a game.

 

The offline mode is not too great, but that isn't part of DRM.

Edited February 3, 2012 by marharth