MSc Project Survey Request

[Deleted163104User]

Hi all,

 

I appreciate not many people know me around here (I'm more of a lurker than a poster!), however I wonder if I could beg a few minutes of your time to assist with my Masters research - don't worry, nothing too onerous and it'll take maybe 8-10 minutes:

 

I am currently undertaking a MSc in Forensic Mark Comparison at the University of Wolverhampton - the focus of my study is to determine whether infrared 'night vision' CCTV affects one's ability to identify a subject from the imagery.

The study itself involves looking at a series of 15 short clips and attempting to identify the filmed individual from a series of photos. From the results I've already had, it should take no more than 8 minutes and it would greatly contribute to my eventual result.

The link to the survey is: https://www.classmarker.com/online-test/start/?quiz=t765903dd4aeac29 . The front page contains more detailed information.

Many thanks in advance for any takers!

[DoctorKaizeld]

Ill give it a go when i get to my home pc. Sounds like a fun 8 minutes.

[gandalftw]

I never take a survey unless they pay me. ;)

[montky]

thanks for this survey.

where will this be intended to be published? Vixra, arxiv, or a journal of some kind?

 

some of your ideas in this line of thought may yet have unrealised cross application in

SETI and the AFSPC "superbolide to micro-impactor real-time mapping" project.

that stuff requires rapid comparison between images to discern for movement or a change.

 

I have some feedback and ideas below.

 

 

 

so, I'd be interested to see the p values in this self-reporting sample set.

is this populating a sample set so as to say

"see, our methods and techniques are significantly different to a random sample of the general population"

 

for vive-voce...

how is someone qualified enough, for their responses to be 'of use' in this survey?

I'd then have another sample group which wasn't the control or general populace percept group,

but from 'operators', such as "shopping center asset protection", public, PMCs and law enforcers or local city etc.

I'd also consider responses from amateur astronomers and remote sensing, as they have to deal with discerning things and detecting very subtle motion etc.

 

-----

with that in back of mind,

the survey was awesome;

 

I think if you asked "what resolution or distance from the camera" and those kinds of questions too,

it would allow responders to answer more fully.

Applying filters to the image also, such as post-"1886 the order", and having AGI use

contrapositive-intransatives on the original pixels to determine what the margin of error for the artifacting is,

(see KNOWM and AHaH neuro-memristive weighting)

might help identify persons from partial images like that.

 

--- Is the use of those filter/s, potentially leading to a reification and abstraction from what is?

can filters and 'post processing' introduce additional artifacts, or degrade the image?

yes, at certain resolutions and distances, the pixels can resemble someone else, such that "6Sigma" certainty of identification cannot be achieved.

 

It appears some of the images had a 'fisheye lens' Fourier transform applied to them,

which caused significant spherical aberration - so much so I could not identify what I was seeing.

that camera might be a fibreoptic high-gain ratio "peep" camera.

(such as some being trialed on DevTac)

If I knew more about the camera that took these images, I might better be able to take the image and determine what I'm seeing from that hehe.

 

attempting to correct the image for it's spherical aberration or damaged heat-warped undulating surface,

still didn't produce a recognizable likeness.

 

That balaclava image,

if you apply filters to it, such as lenses or post,

it still has an image - they're using a disposable camera flash or a nine-bang flash, perhaps a fresnel directed laser pulse,

to be brighter than the camera's tolerances.

I've seen bozo's do that before, or try to;

some 'operators' wear a mining helmet with that on top to get past some installation cameras...

it flashes at the refresh cycle rate.

or they have an arcwelder attached to their backpack, and try to be brighter than the camera...

but, if the flash is not bright enough to oversaturate all the pixels,

there'll still be an outline or differentiation left.

See Eric Beaubien/EBTX's vid on 'oversaturated image layering"

 

polarizing filters, or different coatings and films applied to the multi-focal lenses,

can further frustrate that attempt to "shine bright like a diamond"

tf00t outlines this, with his "why do glassblowers and jewelers have special goggles" vid.

 

I heard in Janes' Fighting Monthly and from Periodic Vids

that some RUS installations now have plasmonic coatings on the cameras,

which prevent that entirely from working at all.

so, your lens is multi-focal, plasmonic and vanadium or palladium

 

Even if you have some photo-optic camouflage or are invisible to IR and UV,

or you can pulse at the refresh rate of the cameras,

they can still see it, or it's thermal wake.

Say, for an MAV or other device...

speaking of which - some of these new Micro MAV's are insanely small,

around the 10cm mark, with flight times of hours thanks to power via wifi and on-board inductors.

 

 

 

 

Good luck with your thesis,

and I encourage also cross posting to ThisWeekInTech, and the ARMA game themed threads,

so as to get a broader range of responses from your survey.

[HeyYou]

14 posts in 11 years? Yeah, I would say that qualifies as 'lurker'. :)

 

Lets' have a look!

[Deleted163104User]

Many thanks for the responders so far. :smile:

 

 

 

where will this be intended to be published? Vixra, arxiv, or a journal of some kind?

Well, it's currently just a master's thesis but I'm hoping to potentially get it published in a journal, even as a pilot study.

 

 

some of your ideas in this line of thought may yet have unrealised cross application in

SETI and the AFSPC "superbolide to micro-impactor real-time mapping" project.

that stuff requires rapid comparison between images to discern for movement or a change.

Hey, I'm just a forensic scientist - I don't know anything about any of that! :tongue:

 

 

how is someone qualified enough, for their responses to be 'of use' in this survey?

To be honest, for the purposes of my MSc project my criteria was 'has working eyes' :tongue:

 

 

 

I'd then have another sample group which wasn't the control or general populace percept group,

but from 'operators', such as "shopping center asset protection", public, PMCs and law enforcers or local city etc.

I'd also consider responses from amateur astronomers and remote sensing, as they have to deal with discerning things and detecting very subtle motion etc.

From my own background (police and forensics) I hadn't really considered astronomers. My project deadline is/was too close for going for this - I was just going to take the 'law enforcement/forensics' people out as a separate group just to see if they were any better at it (previous studies say they're actualyl not. Asset protection people are no better at this than Average Joe, except they might recognise the crim - and recognition > identification every time.

 

Even passport checkers are just as prone to error as Average Joe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think if you asked "what resolution or distance from the camera" and those kinds of questions too

it would allow responders to answer more fully.

Applying filters to the image also, such as post-"1886 the order", and having AGI use

contrapositive-intransatives on the original pixels to determine what the margin of error for the artifacting is,

(see KNOWM and AHaH neuro-memristive weighting)

might help identify persons from partial images like that.

The aim was to see how people do using fairly typical CCTV imagery such as you might find in or outside a shop. It's certainly not the worst CCTV I've had to deal with in my day-job (which happens to be facial comparison of CCTV imagery versus known person of interest).

With the greatest of respect...you used a number of words in this paragraph I don't even know. :tongue:

 

 

 

 

 

Is the use of those filter/s, potentially leading to a reification and abstraction from what is?

can filters and 'post processing' introduce additional artifacts, or degrade the image?

I would certainly say I agree with you on that. From experience it's pretty easy to make two people indistinguishable through postprocessing or compression (if the footage is bad enough, it's useless. :tongue: )

yes, at certain resolutions and distances, the pixels can resemble someone else, such that certainty of identification cannot be achieved.

 

 

 

It appears some of the images had a 'fisheye lens' Fourier transform applied to them,

which caused significant spherical aberration - so much so I could not identify what I was seeing.

that camera might be a fibreoptic high-gain ratio "peep" camera.

(such as some being trialed on DevTac)

If I knew more about the camera that took these images, I might better be able to take the image and determine what I'm seeing from that hehe.

Bog-standard CCTV camera. CCTV cameras tend to have wide angle lenses - that isn't a transform :tongue:

I basically scrounged a couple of old IR-capable cameras out of the company storeroom. A future study will be using more modern cameras and much less compression.

 

 

 

attempting to correct the image for it's spherical aberration or damaged heat-warped undulating surface,

still didn't produce a recognizable likeness.

Yeah, the camera isn't great. :tongue:

 

 

 

That balaclava image,

if you apply filters to it, such as lenses or post,

it still has an image - they're using a disposable camera flash or a nine-bang flash, perhaps a fresnel directed laser pulse,

to be brighter than the camera's tolerances.

I've seen bozo's do that before, or try to;

some 'operators' wear a mining helmet with that on top to get past some installation cameras...

it flashes at the refresh cycle rate.

or they have an arcwelder attached to their backpack, and try to be brighter than the camera...

but, if the flash is not bright enough to oversaturate all the pixels,

there'll still be an outline or differentiation left.

See Eric Beaubien/EBTX's vid on 'oversaturated image layering"

 

polarizing filters, or different coatings and films applied to the multi-focal lenses,

can further frustrate that attempt to "shine bright like a diamond"

tf00t outlines this, with his "why do glassblowers and jewelers have special goggles" vid.

 

I heard in Janes' Fighting Monthly and from Periodic Vids

that some RUS installations now have plasmonic coatings on the cameras,

which prevent that entirely from working at all.

so, your lens is multi-focal, plasmonic and vanadium or palladium

 

Even if you have some photo-optic camouflage or are invisible to IR and UV,

or you can pulse at the refresh rate of the cameras,

they can still see it, or it's thermal wake.

Say, for an MAV or other device...

speaking of which - some of these new Micro MAV's are insanely small,

around the 10cm mark, with flight times of hours thanks to power via wifi and on-board inductors.

Wow, that will be some serious cash being spent on those cameras. Far more than Joe Shopkeeper will be likely to spend...and certainly far in advance of what I am likely to see at work in the near future. I'm lucky to get 25 frames per second let alone glareproof cameras... what you're talking about is military-grade here, certanly above my paygrade! :D

 

 

 

Good luck with your thesis,

and I encourage also cross posting to ThisWeekInTech, and the ARMA game themed threads,

so as to get a broader range of responses from your survey.

Hmm, thanks for the advice but I don't want to intrude off-topic (especially since, being a lurker I was hesitant to post this here :tongue:

 

 

 

14 posts in 11 years? Yeah, I would say that qualifies as 'lurker'. :smile:

 

Lets' have a look!

 

Well they will insist on a login for big files! If I don't have anything to contribute to the forum, why make me register? :tongue:

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Guest

[DoctorKaizeld]

thanks for this survey.

where will this be intended to be published? Vixra, arxiv, or a journal of some kind?

 

some of your ideas in this line of thought may yet have unrealised cross application in

SETI and the AFSPC "superbolide to micro-impactor real-time mapping" project.

that stuff requires rapid comparison between images to discern for movement or a change.

 

I have some feedback and ideas below.

 

 

 

so, I'd be interested to see the p values in this self-reporting sample set.

is this populating a sample set so as to say

"see, our methods and techniques are significantly different to a random sample of the general population"

 

for vive-voce...

how is someone qualified enough, for their responses to be 'of use' in this survey?

I'd then have another sample group which wasn't the control or general populace percept group,

but from 'operators', such as "shopping center asset protection", public, PMCs and law enforcers or local city etc.

I'd also consider responses from amateur astronomers and remote sensing, as they have to deal with discerning things and detecting very subtle motion etc.

 

-----

with that in back of mind,

the survey was awesome;

 

I think if you asked "what resolution or distance from the camera" and those kinds of questions too,

it would allow responders to answer more fully.

Applying filters to the image also, such as post-"1886 the order", and having AGI use

contrapositive-intransatives on the original pixels to determine what the margin of error for the artifacting is,

(see KNOWM and AHaH neuro-memristive weighting)

might help identify persons from partial images like that.

 

--- Is the use of those filter/s, potentially leading to a reification and abstraction from what is?

can filters and 'post processing' introduce additional artifacts, or degrade the image?

yes, at certain resolutions and distances, the pixels can resemble someone else, such that "6Sigma" certainty of identification cannot be achieved.

 

It appears some of the images had a 'fisheye lens' Fourier transform applied to them,

which caused significant spherical aberration - so much so I could not identify what I was seeing.

that camera might be a fibreoptic high-gain ratio "peep" camera.

(such as some being trialed on DevTac)

If I knew more about the camera that took these images, I might better be able to take the image and determine what I'm seeing from that hehe.

 

attempting to correct the image for it's spherical aberration or damaged heat-warped undulating surface,

still didn't produce a recognizable likeness.

 

That balaclava image,

if you apply filters to it, such as lenses or post,

it still has an image - they're using a disposable camera flash or a nine-bang flash, perhaps a fresnel directed laser pulse,

to be brighter than the camera's tolerances.

I've seen bozo's do that before, or try to;

some 'operators' wear a mining helmet with that on top to get past some installation cameras...

it flashes at the refresh cycle rate.

or they have an arcwelder attached to their backpack, and try to be brighter than the camera...

but, if the flash is not bright enough to oversaturate all the pixels,

there'll still be an outline or differentiation left.

See Eric Beaubien/EBTX's vid on 'oversaturated image layering"

 

polarizing filters, or different coatings and films applied to the multi-focal lenses,

can further frustrate that attempt to "shine bright like a diamond"

tf00t outlines this, with his "why do glassblowers and jewelers have special goggles" vid.

 

I heard in Janes' Fighting Monthly and from Periodic Vids

that some RUS installations now have plasmonic coatings on the cameras,

which prevent that entirely from working at all.

so, your lens is multi-focal, plasmonic and vanadium or palladium

 

Even if you have some photo-optic camouflage or are invisible to IR and UV,

or you can pulse at the refresh rate of the cameras,

they can still see it, or it's thermal wake.

Say, for an MAV or other device...

speaking of which - some of these new Micro MAV's are insanely small,

around the 10cm mark, with flight times of hours thanks to power via wifi and on-board inductors.

 

 

 

 

Good luck with your thesis,

and I encourage also cross posting to ThisWeekInTech, and the ARMA game themed threads,

so as to get a broader range of responses from your survey.

yeah knowing ARMA guys you may want to avoid posting off topic there... but at the same time this seems to also be in their interest range... hmm tough one. but yeah the ThisWeekInTech is another good place to post.

[Deleted163104User]

Pretty sure a few of my participants have come from here, so many thanks to those peeps - greatly appreciated.

 

I'm currently up to 67 completed surveys. The survey closes at the end of this month and I'd really like to hit triple figures if at all possible!

 

Many thanks to anyone who can give us a leg-up!

[BlackRampage]

Fascinating. Took me about 12 minutes.