An update on Vortex development

[1000101]

In response to post #55344843. #55373403, #55373898, #55376993, #55378678, #55396798, #55413778, #55466973, #55486013 are all replies on the same post.

Oax wrote: I don't like change... I'll just leave it at that :P

ILostMyNametag wrote: if it isnt broke dont fix it

Ethreon wrote: Yes, let's all live in mud huts cause some of the villagers can't handle change.

"if aint broke don't fix it" is a dumb saying.

1000101 wrote: Change for the sake of changing is dumb. If there is an inherent flaw in the existing system, that's a reason for change. But, if you can only think of one reason then you don't have enough reasons.

Ethreon wrote: Congrats on rephrasing the other guy with your own words. We're discussing NMM here - I don't think there's a single person that used it across time without issues. There's even another article detailing all the reasons this change is happening, were people willing to bother reading.

KennyMcCormick315 wrote: To be fair, NMM is horribly broken. Always has been. I don't yet know if Vortex will be an improvement but here's hoping.


I wholeheartedly disagree with 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' being a dumb saying, in fact, it's one I live by and one I feel the world should live by. Change solely for change's sake is dumb and often introduces problems that weren't there beforehand with no net benefit to be had. 'Fixing' things that aren't broken is a major problem with society today.

That being said, NMM needs a lot of fixing. I flat out wouldn't use it at all if I had a choice. I love FOMM, it's my ideal mod manager. I actually jury-rigged it to work with Skyrim and spent a ton of time attempting to coax it to manage Fallout 4's mods as well. Hell, I still use it on FO3, FNV, Skyrim, and I've gone out of my way to make sure NMM never tries to associate with those three titles so it can't screw up what's working. But try as I might I couldn't coax it to work with FO4, so I was forced to use the crashy pile of crap that is NMM.

Not fond of NMM and I'm not going to shed a tear when it's depreciated. I just hope Vortex is an improvement. I'll reserve judgement until it's in my hands.

1000101 wrote: @Ethreon: I don't know why you are being caustic. There is certainly no need for it. Making comments like "were people willing to bother reading" assumes that "people" spend their time simply waiting or searching for information on the specific subject matter. Those incorrect assumptions are your problem, nobody else's. Given that those "people" do not spend large amounts of their time on this website and may have missed or not known to look up the specific thing there is no reason to be rude. That you think the change is good, well that's good, others don't - but there is never any call to be passive aggressiveness simply because someone expresses an opinion contrary to yours.

tajetaje wrote: those "people" are you, I believe he is pointing out that you, and others that may post similarly, should not make claims on a subject matter that you don't understand.

dejec1989 wrote: It's not a dumb saying, you just can't apply it to everything.

@tajetaje: We all know that others and myself are the "people" in question. Not sure why you felt the need to point out what we all knew. The point was there was no call for being passive aggressive or rude.

Anyway, I said my piece and to make sure I am clear here's a simple point form list:

+ Change is good if it needed, if it's not needed (need != want) then it's a massive waste of resources;
+ Vortex would need similar functionality as Wyre Bash as far as separating install order and load order;
+ Although not previously stated, I'd like to mention that a minimalistic interface would be nice, I don't need massive buttons eating screen real estate like a fat kid with a chocolate cake (seems to be a popular thing in some programs these days to use oversized buttons with cyptic icons using a disproportionate amount of the programs screen space instead of a proper menu system);
+ Disagreeing with people doesn't need to be done rudely.

[lithiumfox]

In response to post #55396883.

KennyMcCormick315 wrote: All I want in a mod manager is the ability to install FOMODS, manage archive invalidation, and handle load orders. THat's it. I don't particularly care for logging in through the mod manager or being able to rate mods through it, I don't want it checking for updates(For itself or for mods) as I will do this as I feel the need to. I just want it to manage my load order and install fomods, nothing more. FOMM was overpowered for me, but I adored its simplicity, and that's what I'm hoping for out of Vortex.


I'll probably give it a try in January when it pops out. Here's hoping it's an honest and simple little program that does what it says on the tin and doesn't have a lot of extraneous fluff.

It's a bit more useful than that. The nice part about MO over NMM was the fact that you could keep mods in their full state and reorder entire Mods and disable specific files (would make it a .mohidden extension), particularly useful for texture/model mods. You could easily test without having files completely deleted or written over. Install a new mod you like but hate the specific texture for a specific item?

You could just go into the mod info and disable that file for that mod and a previous file would load. Or could just reorder entire texture mods without reinstalling them

Took up a lot more space, sure, but was hella convenient.

[Galschar]

I really love all the changes that have been made lately. New Nexus website design which I personally love and new Nexus Mod Manager Vortex which I believe is going to be awesome.

One feature I really hope to see in Vortex is the ability to update mods with one simple step. Right now NMM doesn't let you easily update your mods. It's actually a very frustrating process which is why I often take months to set up my mod list. Hope to see the final version of Vortex soon :)

[BearOfStormCrown]

Here's what I would like to know, would it be able to access the mods that NMM has installed on our computers or do we need to delete everything and start anew?

[xILARTH]

https://statuscode.ch/2017/11/from-markdown-to-rce-in-atom/

 

PLEASE reconsider your decision to use electron for your UI. You are solving one issue in exhange for an internets worth of bugs and exploitation. If it is too far past time for a reconsideration then just be extremely careful in your implementations.

Edited November 26, 2017 by xILARTH

[Bababuschka]

In response to post #55505008.

BearOfStormCrown wrote: Here's what I would like to know, would it be able to access the mods that NMM has installed on our computers or do we need to delete everything and start anew?

If it has the add mod function, I'm sure you could just pull the mods from the NMM directory

[SunderedShadow]

I am looking forward to seeing Vortex come out, while I have used NMM for years I have come across quite a few weaknesses in it most that MO seemed to correct, but issues I had with MO seemed easily bypassed by NMM, so if Vortex is an improved fusion of both this should be good.

[lithiumfox]

In response to post #55344843. #55373403, #55373898, #55376993, #55378678, #55396798, #55413778, #55466973, #55486013, #55493168 are all replies on the same post.

Oax wrote: I don't like change... I'll just leave it at that :P

ILostMyNametag wrote: if it isnt broke dont fix it

Ethreon wrote: Yes, let's all live in mud huts cause some of the villagers can't handle change.

"if aint broke don't fix it" is a dumb saying.

1000101 wrote: Change for the sake of changing is dumb. If there is an inherent flaw in the existing system, that's a reason for change. But, if you can only think of one reason then you don't have enough reasons.

Ethreon wrote: Congrats on rephrasing the other guy with your own words. We're discussing NMM here - I don't think there's a single person that used it across time without issues. There's even another article detailing all the reasons this change is happening, were people willing to bother reading.

KennyMcCormick315 wrote: To be fair, NMM is horribly broken. Always has been. I don't yet know if Vortex will be an improvement but here's hoping.


I wholeheartedly disagree with 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' being a dumb saying, in fact, it's one I live by and one I feel the world should live by. Change solely for change's sake is dumb and often introduces problems that weren't there beforehand with no net benefit to be had. 'Fixing' things that aren't broken is a major problem with society today.

That being said, NMM needs a lot of fixing. I flat out wouldn't use it at all if I had a choice. I love FOMM, it's my ideal mod manager. I actually jury-rigged it to work with Skyrim and spent a ton of time attempting to coax it to manage Fallout 4's mods as well. Hell, I still use it on FO3, FNV, Skyrim, and I've gone out of my way to make sure NMM never tries to associate with those three titles so it can't screw up what's working. But try as I might I couldn't coax it to work with FO4, so I was forced to use the crashy pile of crap that is NMM.

Not fond of NMM and I'm not going to shed a tear when it's depreciated. I just hope Vortex is an improvement. I'll reserve judgement until it's in my hands.

1000101 wrote: @Ethreon: I don't know why you are being caustic. There is certainly no need for it. Making comments like "were people willing to bother reading" assumes that "people" spend their time simply waiting or searching for information on the specific subject matter. Those incorrect assumptions are your problem, nobody else's. Given that those "people" do not spend large amounts of their time on this website and may have missed or not known to look up the specific thing there is no reason to be rude. That you think the change is good, well that's good, others don't - but there is never any call to be passive aggressiveness simply because someone expresses an opinion contrary to yours.

tajetaje wrote: those "people" are you, I believe he is pointing out that you, and others that may post similarly, should not make claims on a subject matter that you don't understand.

dejec1989 wrote: It's not a dumb saying, you just can't apply it to everything.

1000101 wrote: @tajetaje: We all know that others and myself are the "people" in question. Not sure why you felt the need to point out what we all knew. The point was there was no call for being passive aggressive or rude.

Anyway, I said my piece and to make sure I am clear here's a simple point form list:

+ Change is good if it needed, if it's not needed (need != want) then it's a massive waste of resources;
+ Vortex would need similar functionality as Wyre Bash as far as separating install order and load order;
+ Although not previously stated, I'd like to mention that a minimalistic interface would be nice, I don't need massive buttons eating screen real estate like a fat kid with a chocolate cake (seems to be a popular thing in some programs these days to use oversized buttons with cyptic icons using a disproportionate amount of the programs screen space instead of a proper menu system);
+ Disagreeing with people doesn't need to be done rudely.

I mean the guy working on it is the guy who did MO which let you order install and load order, as well as did a VFS which let you install and uninstall mods with a checkbox without losing any files (as well as a file override system)

It was quite good at allowing different load orders of even files themselves. Kinda neat imo.

[jetrico]

In response to post #55522673.

xILARTH wrote: https://statuscode.ch/2017/11/from-markdown-to-rce-in-atom/

PLEASE reconsider your decision to use electron for your UI. You are solving one issue in exhange for an internets worth of bugs and exploitation. If it is too far past time for a reconsideration then just be extremely careful in your implementations.

the problems in that article is mostly from the atom editor's plugin markdown preview, not electron in general. the electron platform by itself does not expose a particular idea to security vulnerabilities out of the box.

it just so happened that atom (a code editor) is able to save and execute scripts that a user inputs (because that's its job, it's a code editor), and thus bringing XSS into the spotlight, but not all apps to be made from electron executes scripts typed in by the user.

i do not believe electron is an "internets worth of bugs and exploitation". like any other client-side applications, and thin-client websites it sure is vulnerable to CSRF and other concepts depending on implementation, but i believe it's a 1:1 trade-off from using anything else.

[jetrico]

feature request: plugins made from electron, or plugins as JS modules, or webpacked modules.

 

If possible and if it becomes open source, I'm interested to develop plugins for Vortex. I have ideas such as "bethINI" as a mod manager plugin, STEP modlist verification, memory fix checker, etc.

 

Would be nice to have them as plugins rather than separate downloadable third-party apps, that we link and run in the context of the virtual filesystem. But of course they will still be run in the context of the vfs when they are executed, but it will be built-in like LOOT in the original MO.