GTX 1070 runs 60fps SSE but not OLDRIM

[Jeenine]

Even with my experience as a modder, I struggle to understand how bad the old Skyrim engine is.

With a heavily modded SSE game on ultra with a performance heavy ENB I get a buttery smooth steady 60 fps. Same for FO4.
Yet, for Oldrim, I cant play the Vanilla game on ultra without stutter spikes that occur when loading cells outdoors. Vanilla Oldrim will run at 60 fps with frequent stutter spikes that will dip to 55 fps.

As much as Im sure its the engine, I cant quite wrap my head around that kind of poor performance. The best solution in my experience is to lower the distant object detail setting and the Object fade setting in the launcher, or manually tweaking the inis accordingly. The old FPSclamp trick works as well, but when you start modding Oldrim, the main issue resurfaces.

I probably tried every solution possible, yet maybe some of you experience modders can give me a new perspective on the matter. But before posting, I want to make it clear that this is not mod issue or an ini problem, STEP is irrelevant here, from my experience this issue revolves around perhaps the Nvidia drivers, the graphics card itself, the old Skyrim engine, or something else that im unaware of.

Here are my specs:
GeForce GTX1070 8gb GDDR5
Intel Core i7-4770S 3.10ghz
8gb ram

[Deleted3082751User]

its literally because of oldrim 32bit engine limitation and its poor memory management and being dx9 will most likely play a role in it as well, hence the reason Skyrim special edition and fallout 4 both run far better because they are both 64bit applications, and are also dx11 and likewise far superior memory management and have some type of optimization for newer hardware. for example the optimization used in fallout 4, is previs/precombine (precombined cells), if an edit breaks this system then you will get abysmal performance in the affected area. and i am pretty sure that is literally the only optimization for pc. for all we know skyrim special edition may use the same optimization, which would explain for superior performance as oppose to oldrim, but even so if thats not the case, both skyrim special edition, and fallout 4 are on the exact same optimized engine, and as such will share the exact same pros and cons. 64bit grants practically unlimited memory, thus meaning the application supports and can use the maximum possible memory, this right here fixes the poor memory management, and any issue related to memory, which their was a lot of on oldrim.

 

32bit applications have a 3.5 gb memory limitation, while their are methods to bypass this limitation, it is still a limitation nonetheless, and will never truly be fixed on a 32bit application unless the mod author magically modifies the engine itself, which is not possible without the source code to the engine.

 

so case in point, enb and memory fixes, simply allow the engine to support higher memory by forcing the game to use a new memory management system (ENB) or (Malloc), however that will not fix the other issues the engine has, and even that is not foolproof.

 

older games tend to run bad on newer hardware, its just a simple fact, unless the game company in question continue supporting their old games and optimizing them for newer hardware (Graphics card driver support alone cannot fix a broken game or badly optimized game), their will always be some type of problem. should bear in mind, skyrim was released in 2011, the current pc hardware at that time was the radeon 7970 and gtx 580, both cards of which only had 3 gigabyte of vram, and the typical computer would usually only have about 8 gigabyte of ddr2 memory so likewise this was the hardware that the game was "optimized" for, not too mention that it was primarily optimized for the xbox360 and ps3 hardware, which was far inferior to said pc hardware.

 

bethesda games are blatantly aimed at consoles first and foremost, and likewise pc hardware is far ahead of current gen consoles at any given time. and as such, the games will be strictly optimized for the hardware present in current gen consoles, at the time of release of their games, so this is why the pc suffers far inferior performance as oppose to the performance it should be achieving. no amount of fixes from third party consumers, can fix the engine, the core component of the game. they can only bypass limitations but not fully fix them. the only person/people that can fix the game is bethesda.

 

All console hardware is strictly made by AMD (intel and Nvidia Rival) and the hardware they use will strictly be nerfed or far inferior hardware compared to their pc hardware counterparts. so this means a high end pc will blow the consoles out of the water, but because of this games made primarily for consoles will not run well on pc(s). not only that but their are absolutely loads of pc configurations that a game company could simply not optimize for every possible configuration, this is another reason why games primarly made for consoles run bad on desktop pc(s), now a game primary made for pc will run far superior and have far less issues because the main focus of optimization will be primarly aimed at pc hardware.

 

Oldrim, Special Edition, and Fallout 4, are all strictly console games, this is why they have many issues on pc. it is painfully obvious these are all primarily console games which almost feels like they forgot that pc exist, as indicated by many very noticeable things, such as, the disgusting user interface in skyrim and special edition, the retarded controls in fallout 4, for example having the hold breath key for sniping on the other side of keyboard (which cannot be remapped either in game or in the ini files, the only way is to use third party keymappers or the godsend program that is F4SE), the inability to move in the workshop mode, if you have the arrow keys as your movement keys. and many many other ridiculous design choices and the absolute most ovbious is the god aweful Default Field of View, which again cannot be changed in game as a proper default option, like changing the audio volume or controls. this right here is the very thing that determines if a game company had pc in mind, the field of view. it is 1 of the most important settings for any game on a pc imo (especially for shooters, looking at you fallout 4).

 

1 thing we should remember about oldrim however, is the very fact that this game as said were strictly aimed at xbox360 and ps3, 2 consoles that would not handle mods at all, so a lot of these issues are because of a modded game. if you was to play oldrim unmodded these issues would be much less common. its the very reason we need all of these fixes, such as unofficial patch, skse memory tweaks or enb fixes. because of a modded game. now Skyrim special edition is made in the era of the xbox one and ps4 both of which can run mods, and as such the problems are far less common for pc.

 

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Oldrim

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32bit Application = 3.5 Gigabyte System Ram limit, Both windows itself and texture mods would reach this limit very quickly, thus making issues very quickly apperent.

 

Dx9 = plays a role in poor performance as oppose to dx11. such as dx11 has better hyperthreading support newer graphics cards are optimized for newer frameworks such as direct x 11. etc etc.

 

Gamebyro Engine = optimized version of the engine from previous games such as fallout 3, oblivion and morrowind, this engine repeatbly gets slightly upgraded, but it is a very old engine, and as such plays a massive role in game performance and bugs, issues etc etc. they seriously need to upgrade on to a new engine. else all future games that use this engine will just only get slightly better. but will still perform terrably especially for newer hardware

 

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Special Edition and Fallout 4

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64bit Application = Supports and uses maximum possible memory, eliminating memory related issues (which is the primary problem oldrim has)

 

Dx11 = as said above, many optimizations for newer hardware, including hyperthreading support. all latest gen graphics cards from 2015 atleast fully support this framework, with latest supporting both dx11 and 12

 

Gamebyro Engine = yet again another slight upgrade to this engine from oldrim, but also the exact same crappy engine, which again is holding the potentional performance and game fixes back. again they seriously need to ditch this engine and create a new 1. this will if done right grant major performance and optimizations to their next gen games. this is the core component to the game, including performance, stability and optimizations, a poorly made engine, will result in frequent crashes, freezes, and terrible performance. the game engine is literally the same as a the engine for a car figuratively.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Guest

[Jeenine]

Thx for the good, read, while the part about console being the target market was painfully obvious, it did answer the main question, I didnt know that consoles were stricly made by AMD either. Guess its really the old engine after all...

Kudos

[ymf331]

on windows 10, replacing dx9 with the old version helps a lot (edit: i saw someone said they fixed it, so that may be so). also replacing the base game textures with reasonably sized and optimized ones, and correctly configuring crash fixes and enboost are all essential. i ran far beyond a steady 60fps heavily modded on a gtx 550ti (vividian cut me down to a steady 40 outdoors, sadly). some mods literally use 4k textures for things that take up an inch of screen space. it's not feasible for a 32-bit program.

Edited November 23, 2017 by ymf331

[Jeenine]

I dont use Windows 10, Windows 7 is still better. The point is not about optimization, the point is that a GTX 1070 should run vanilla oldrim on ultra out of the box.

[ymf331]

the poster above explained the memory limitations of a 32-bit program... your 8gib of video memory isn't being fully utilized. even if someone has a 1gib card, their ram is being used for the rest. your vram is faster, but it obviously doesn't make as big a difference as you might think.

[jones177]

Hi

 

I run this game with a GTX 1080 at 3440 X 1440 with 254+ mods & ENB & get 60fps most of the time. I am running SE 60fps everywhere with about 120 mods plus Reshade.

 

This game takes more time to configure with the memory patches but once you get it right they run about the same.

 

I find that my heavily modded Skyrim runs much better on newer more powerful hardware than it ever did on the old stuff. Putting the game on a SSD cuts the CTDs bigtime & upping the vram helps as well even though it don't seem to use it.

 

Once your get this game running right with mods you like it is an absolute wonder.

 

Later