Fallout 4 probably last game able to be modded

[Rabbit1251]

No. Games were being modded long before modding was supported. If you want to mod a game just rewrite the code. Granted it would be lots harder without developers' tools, but not impossible. As a matter of fact Fallout 4 was being modded weeks before the release of the Creation Kit.

 

 

The Rabbit

[Transient3292]

personally Im not looking forward to a new engine. as rabbit said, modding will always be a thing, but not as easy as it now for games with the creation kit. skyrim was the first game where I discovered modding. before that I didn't know what a mod was, besides the broad sense of the word. after modding the witcher 3 , I was very happy coming back to fallout and trying all the amazing mods people have come up with. I haven't tried my hand at the witcher 3 mod tools, but from what I looked into it, it doesn't seem to have the possibilities that fallout 4 has. I'm sure there are other factors, but the amount of completely new features added to fallout by mod authors is ridiculous, nothing of that scope is available for the witcher, that I know of at least.

 

so yeah, I'd rather have updated engine with great accessibility instead of great looking graphics

[TheMastersSon]

This thread title is unfortunate and qualifies as clickbait. You're asking a question, I and who knows how many others read it as an announcement. Ever hear of self-fulfilling prophecy? :D

[LadyMilla]

 

/yawn

Â

Another doom and gloom topic.

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EDIT:

Â

A bit more verbose response:

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No, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Fallout 4 is the last moddable Bethesda game. They would not have bothered to launch Creation Club and make mods available on consoles if they were planning to abandon mod support.

It is more likely that they used Creation Club as a pilot project: they used it to learn -- sometimes the hard way -- that dealing with the console platforms can be quite finicky, what with Sony's refusal to permit the upload of third-party content originally not included in the game files (meshes, textures, sounds, etc.). Their willingness to tackle these issues is a sign that mods are here to stay. Now that they have the infrastructure to deliver mods on these platforms, they will probably wait for PS5 (rumored to be released in 2019 or 2020 if Sony follows the usual 6 or 7-year development cycle).

You can call it doom and gloom so that people won't partake in the discussion, but that doesn't make the topic any less realistic.

 

stating the past doesn't prove what will happen in the future. things have changed, micro transactions are a big thing, fallout 4 brought them to a new level of success, and of course, shareholders. I'm sure some big wig has taken a look at Bethesda's world of modding, and realized that they have their own version of microtransactions sitting in their lap, waiting to be taken advantage of. to think that Noone towards the top of the chain has thought of it this way, is pretty naive.

 

of course Noone knows what will happen and there is no point in dwelling on it at this point. I just don't like that people act like the monetization of mods is such a ridiculous idea. it would suck, but makes lots of sense from a business standpoint

 

 

Realistic? You posted the click-bait title "Fallout 4 probably last game able to be modded", without posting a single bit of convincing argument supporting your use of "probably" in the title. That's the hallmark of a "doom and gloom" or "the sky is falling" topic.

 

”stating the past doesn't prove what will happen in the future. things have changed, micro transactions are a big thing"

 

 

You are making no sense at all. For two reasons.

1. when you try to predict the future, you can only rely on past and present factors. That's the input. If you dismiss that input, you have absolutely no basis for making predictions and everything you say falls into the category called "beliefs"; and

2. “Micro transactions are a big thing...”

 

You assume that the Bethesda bosses see a big opportunity in microtransactions, but you present no proof, only a theoretical scenario. Even if it were true, there are two ways to benefit from microtransactions:

a) use your own staff to develop things you want to sell,

b) exploit talents already existing in the free modding community and make them work for you.

Option a) requires investment. You need developers, support staff, etc. You also run the risk of suffering losses if you spend time and money developing official mods that do not sell. Also, if you shut down free modding, the backlash would ensure that you have trouble selling your “official mods”. Basically, once you let the genie of free modding out of the bottle, you cannot put it back, lock it up, and pretend that nothing has happened. This is where your “stating the past” argument fails: without free modding, Bethesda would have little trouble releasing in-house developed mods.

Let’s see Option b): “exploiting the modding community to make them work for you”.

This is a workable and cheap solution. Free modding has a lot of benefits:

- prolongs the longevity of their games by increasing replayability,

- saves them from having to fix bugs in their games themselves, thanks to the unofficial patches,

- provides graphical updates that allow their games to remain visually competitive in the eyes of folks more focused on eyecandy than substance,

- supports the development of a talent pool.

 

The latter is an important enabler in their paid modding system. By releasing free modding tools and a rudimentary collection of tutorials, they ensured all the benefits that I’ve already mentioned, plus, in terms of their Creation Club:

- no need to invest into talent discovery and development. Talented modders will emerge on their own as part of the evolution of the free modding community;

- no need to hire developers and pay wages to them. Grabbing a certain percentage of the sales revenues essentially provides free money (minus the costs of running Bethesda.net);

- no need to assume responsibility for bad mods, they can blame the modder;

- no need to provide support, they can refer complainers to the modder;

 

As you see, their Creation Club depends directly on free modding. They cannot remove free modding because free modding is the training ground where people acquire the skills that enable them to eventually make mods that are worth paying for, and makes them a worthy addition to the Creation Club. They cannot remove free modding, because learning to mod requires a) testing (to learn from your mistakes, and testing, when you do it on your own, is never as good as releasing the thing so that other people can find the bugs for you), b) sharing knowledge (saves time if you do not have to rediscover good modding practices/solutions). Sure, they could create an exclusive Modding Academy, with their own developers providing tutorials, lectures, curriculum, testing environment, etc., but that would require investment (setting up a training environment, paying wages, maintaining a staff of tutors or at least a personnel that produces/develops training materials etc.). Simply releasing modding tools, maybe with a rudimentary tutorial, is much more cost-effective. The free modding community will produce its own top talents, and they can reap the rewards without lifting a finger.

In a way, modding copies the evolution of Linux. You have free distros, but there are commercial versions (RedHat Enterprise Server, or should I mention Android, which is based on the Linux kernel). They are not mutually exclusive.

 

If you want an example from gaming, CS:GO has both paid and free workshop content. It works well for Valve (otherwise they would have shut it down already). There is a free modding community for the Sims series, but there is also paid content from EA, but EA tolerates the sale of Sims mods too. ("The Sims celebrates creativity, humor, and community. We strive to provide players with tools that enable them to customize and personalize their game experience. We are proud that so many of The Sims and The Sims 2 players create their own art for the games and share it with others. Sharing art online is a hobby that involves an investment of time, energy and money. Whether players choose to share their original artistic creations with the community is up to them: some custom content creators design work for a fee; some host their works on sites that organize, store and serve an enormous amount of content for subscribers; some artists request donations; and some artists allow all players to download their creations for free. These artists set their own terms for how they want to share their talents with the community at large. Those terms should be respected by other players.")

 

In nutshell, free modding and paid modding can coexist.

[Transient3292]

 

Â

/yawn

ÃÂ

Another doom and gloom topic.

ÃÂ

EDIT:

ÃÂ

A bit more verbose response:

ÃÂ

No, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Fallout 4 is the last moddable Bethesda game. They would not have bothered to launch Creation Club and make mods available on consoles if they were planning to abandon mod support.

It is more likely that they used Creation Club as a pilot project: they used it to learn -- sometimes the hard way -- that dealing with the console platforms can be quite finicky, what with Sony's refusal to permit the upload of third-party content originally not included in the game files (meshes, textures, sounds, etc.). Their willingness to tackle these issues is a sign that mods are here to stay. Now that they have the infrastructure to deliver mods on these platforms, they will probably wait for PS5 (rumored to be released in 2019 or 2020 if Sony follows the usual 6 or 7-year development cycle).

You can call it doom and gloom so that people won't partake in the discussion, but that doesn't make the topic any less realistic.

 

stating the past doesn't prove what will happen in the future. things have changed, micro transactions are a big thing, fallout 4 brought them to a new level of success, and of course, shareholders. I'm sure some big wig has taken a look at Bethesda's world of modding, and realized that they have their own version of microtransactions sitting in their lap, waiting to be taken advantage of. to think that Noone towards the top of the chain has thought of it this way, is pretty naive.

 

of course Noone knows what will happen and there is no point in dwelling on it at this point. I just don't like that people act like the monetization of mods is such a ridiculous idea. it would suck, but makes lots of sense from a business standpoint

Â

Â

Realistic? You posted the click-bait title "Fallout 4 probably last game able to be modded", without posting a single bit of convincing argument supporting your use of "probably" in the title. That's the hallmark of a "doom and gloom" or "the sky is falling" topic.

Â

âstating the past doesn't prove what will happen in the future. things have changed, micro transactions are a big thing"

Â

Â

You are making no sense at all. For two reasons.

• when you try to predict the future, you can only rely on past and present factors. That's the input. If you dismiss that input, you have absolutely no basis for making predictions and everything you say falls into the category called "beliefs"; and

      2. âMicro transactions are a big thing...â

Â

You assume that the Bethesda bosses see a big opportunity in microtransactions, but you present no proof, only a theoretical scenario. Even if it were true, there are two ways to benefit from microtransactions:

a) use your own staff to develop things you want to sell,

b) exploit  talents already existing in the free modding community and make them work for you.

Option a) requires investment. You need developers, support staff, etc. You also run the risk of suffering losses if you spend time and money developing official mods that do not sell. Also, if you shut down free modding, the backlash would ensure that you have trouble selling your âofficial modsâ. Basically, once you let the genie of free modding out of the bottle, you cannot put it back, lock it up, and pretend that nothing has happened. This is where your âstating the pastâ argument fails: without free modding, Bethesda would have little trouble releasing in-house developed mods.

Letâs see Option b): âexploiting the modding community to make them work for youâ.

This is a workable and cheap solution. Free modding has a lot of benefits:

- prolongs the longevity of their games by increasing replayability,

- saves them from having to fix bugs in their games themselves, thanks to the unofficial patches,

- provides graphical updates that allow their games to remain visually competitive in the eyes of folks more focused on eyecandy than substance,

- supports the development of a talent pool.

 

The latter is an important enabler in their paid modding system. By releasing free modding tools and a rudimentary collection of tutorials, they ensured all the benefits that Iâve already mentioned, plus, in terms of their Creation Club:

- no need to invest into talent discovery and development. Talented modders will emerge on their own as part of the evolution of the free modding community;

- no need to hire developers and pay wages to them. Grabbing a certain percentage of the sales revenues essentially provides free money (minus the costs of running Bethesda.net);

- no need to assume responsibility for bad mods, they can blame the modder;

- no need to provide support, they can refer complainers to the modder;

 

As you see, their Creation Club depends directly on free modding. They cannot remove free modding because free modding is the training ground where people acquire the skills that enable them to eventually make mods that are worth paying for, and makes them a worthy addition to the Creation Club. They cannot remove free modding, because learning to mod requires a) testing (to learn from your mistakes, and testing, when you do it on your own, is never as good as releasing the thing so that other people can find the bugs for you), b) sharing knowledge (saves time if you do not have to rediscover good modding practices/solutions). Sure, they could create an exclusive Modding Academy, with their own developers providing tutorials, lectures, curriculum, testing environment, etc., but that would require investment (setting up a training environment, paying wages, maintaining a staff of tutors or at least a personnel that produces/develops training materials etc.). Simply releasing modding tools, maybe with a rudimentary tutorial, is much more cost-effective. The free modding community will produce its own top talents, and they can reap the rewards without lifting a finger.

Â

In a way, modding copies the evolution of Linux. You have free distros, but there are commercial versions (RedHat Enterprise Server, or should I mention Android, which is based on the Linux kernel). They are not mutually exclusive.

Â

If you want an example from gaming, CS:GO has both paid and free workshop content. It works well for Valve (otherwise they would have shut it down already). There is a free modding community for the Sims series, but there is also paid content from EA, but EA tolerates the sale of Sims mods too. ("The Sims celebrates creativity, humor, and community. We strive to provide players with tools that enable them to customize and personalize their game experience. We are proud that so many of The Sims and The Sims 2 players create their own art for the games and share it with others. Sharing art online is a hobby that involves an investment of time, energy and money. Whether players choose to share their original artistic creations with the community is up to them: some custom content creators design work for a fee; some host their works on sites that organize, store and serve an enormous amount of content for subscribers; some artists request donations; and some artists allow all players to download their creations for free. These artists set their own terms for how they want to share their talents with the community at large. Those terms should be respected by other players.")

Â

In nutshell, free modding and paid modding can coexist.

first, I can appreciate a logical argument. the firate post that I replied to is along the lines of what usually comes with this discussion, and most people wrote off any argument besides "they would never do that". you make some good points, I don't think you're exactly wrong, but I don't fully agree either.

 

you're right about looking to the past to predict future events, but that's not always acurate, just because something has been one way does not mean it cannot and will not change.

 

your points about free and paid modding are good, but thats assuming that whoever is making the decisions has the same goals and values as what we think would matter. if someone like todd howard or whoever is creatively invested in their games were making the decisions, you'd probably be right about what they think would be a good decision. But there are people involved in making these decisions that definitely might see it along the lines of what I previously described.

 

I'm not a CEO but from what I understand, they are more interested in immediate or short term profits, especially on a large scale. I think it csn be reasonably argued that they might not care about pissing of the community or at least pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable.

 

Also take into consideration the much different, and constantly changing gamer culture. I have a friend that plays on console that,shares simliar gaming interests, but thinks much differently. he can care less about the artistic aspect of modding, and would easily fork over whatever money regardless of what decisions bethesda makes.I only mention that as an example. my point is that if Bethesda did make the next game only moddable with their own mods, I think enough people would continue to pay for content, at least enough to justify the decision. I could go on, but I'm not really trying to change your mind, just presenting what I think are very logical reasons for worrying. Either way, I do appreciate your detailed argument. everyone has their own particular perspective that will affect how this situation will pan out, and in the end Noone knows for sure. I could be wrong, and if I am, and the next game allows for free mods just as much as any other, I will be extremely happy.

[Transient3292]

and about the talent pool drying up, you're absolutely right, but that also doesn't mean it can't happen. they've already stated that they have their own team working on CC content, as well as some of the best our community has. if they are only concerned with putting out content that doesn't take too much time or resources, and will guarantee to sell to the average player, how many different modders do they really need?

 

One could even argue that if they took away the huge library of free mods, for the next game, that would push people that normally would never buy CC mods into having to buy them.

 

I have nothing against the mod authors trying to make money from the creation club, I can definitely empathize with their position. And not that my opinion matters on that, but the fact that those particular authors are still putting out free mods makes me want to support them even more.

Edited December 15, 2017 by wanderer3292

[NicotineCaffeine]

/yawn

 

Another doom and gloom topic.

 

Indeed. But we humans *love* waste our time in pointless chatter now, don't we? So why stop.