Are Debates really winable?

[Chaosmaker]

No because you are arguing on certain subjects that have many points of view, trying to convince people yours is the most logical. Not trying to make the person look wrong.

[Darnoc]

all things are relative.

 

Prove it. Last time I looked, all things were absolute. Even relativity and probability are absolute. The sentence "in 99% of all cases, this and that is going to happen" is an absolute sentence: It is either true or it is false. Either it is 0 or it is 1. Binary language. The computers got the right point of view. :)

 

Nothing is relative. It only looks that way, because we do not possess enough data or because we have a wrong point of view. Or we are just not specific enough in our definitions.

 

Do also not make the mistake to confuse this with mathematical relativity. This is as absolute as everything. Mathematical relativity just gives you the ratio between two numbers and this is always is the same between the same two numbers.

 

Now about this other, so called "relativity" to whom you and a lot of other people refer when quoting "all things are relative" (which isn't relativity at all, in most cases the bottom line is that the definitons aren't specific enough and things get confused). Let me show you in an example. Standing on earth, you could think that the sun turns around earth. But in our scientifical advance we came to the conclusion that it is rather earth circling sun. And the sun (and with the sun also earth) circles our galaxy. And also the galaxy follows somekind of path, altough I do not know exactly what kind of path. And astronomer could probably tell you. So you see, the people thinking that the sun circles earth were just wrong and we now know this, for we have more knowlegde than they did. And now just apply this to everything, even to religion and philosophy. A religion or belief is either true or false. The same counts for oppinions. We may not know which is true or false, for we lack the necessary data. But the fact that we do not know, doesn't make those things relative. They are still either true or false and someday we might find out what they are (or not).

[Zmid]

Prove it. Last time I looked, all things were absolute. Even relativity and probability are absolute. The sentence "in 99% of all cases, this and that is going to happen" is an absolute sentence: It is either true or it is false. Either it is 0 or it is 1. Binary language. The computers got the right point of view.  :)

 

Nothing is relative. It only looks that way, because we do not possess enough data or because we have a wrong point of view. Or we are just not specific enough in our definitions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, I think it is way more complicated than that. Some things are relative, and some things are absolute. Not only that, some things that appear on the surface to be relative are actually absolute, and some things that appear on the surface to be absolute are actually relative. Take your example of the Earth spinning around the sun. This is only true from the point of view of the sun. From the point of view of the Earth, the sun actually spins around the Earth. From the point of view of the site of the Big Bang, the Milky Way is actually moving away in a straight line (or at least that's what I think astronomers believe is happening), and the Earth is moving through an extremely complicated path indeed.

[Akrid]

Hmm, should I really debate a debate about deabtes?

 

Yes All things are absolute, relative is only how we see some things as we attempt to understand them better. There is a truth to everything, and I am confident in the human minds potential (maybe after it evolves a little more) to uncover all truths. Everything we know is either true or false, some ideas are made up of several smaller ideas and some may be true and others false so it all comes together to be confusing. I belief everything can be broken down to simple mathimatical code 0's and 1's.

[Peregrine]

Actually, I think it is way more complicated than that.  Some things are relative, and some things are absolute.  Not only that, some things that appear on the surface to be relative are actually absolute, and some things that appear on the surface to be absolute are actually relative.  Take your example of the Earth spinning around the sun.  This is only true from the point of view of the sun.  From the point of view of the Earth, the sun actually spins around the Earth.  From the point of view of the site of the Big Bang, the Milky Way is actually moving away in a straight line (or at least that's what I think astronomers believe is happening), and the Earth is moving through an extremely complicated path indeed.

 

It's actually a lot simpler than that, all of those things are equally true. It's one of the first things you learn as an engineer, any coordinate system you want to use is valid, so you always pick the one that simplifies the problem the most. If you're doing orbital calculations for the Earth, you pick the sun as 0,0,0. If you're doing something on a smaller scale, like a structural stress problem, you might pick "that point at the end of the bridge" as 0,0,0. If you want to satisfy your ego, you pick yourself as 0,0,0 and the entire universe is defined relative to you.

 

But all these things are still absolute. The system is still exactly the same, moving in exactly the same ways. The only difference is what method is most convenient for describing its relevant parts.

 

Let me show you in an example. Standing on earth, you could think that the sun turns around earth. But in our scientifical advance we came to the conclusion that it is rather earth circling sun. And the sun (and with the sun also earth) circles our galaxy. And also the galaxy follows somekind of path, altough I do not know exactly what kind of path. And astronomer could probably tell you. So you see, the people thinking that the sun circles earth were just wrong and we now know this, for we have more knowlegde than they did.

 

You've got that completely wrong. "The sun circles the earth" is a perfectly true statement, if you define the earth as 0,0,0. The equations for the sun's orbit will be a nightmare, and far more complicated than using the sun as 0,0,0, but it's still a valid definition. The only thing modern astronomers discovered was that it's generally easier to work with the system if you use the sun as the center.

[ThetaOrionis01]

Last time I looked, all things were absolute.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Could you define absolute beauty for me, please?

[draighox]

An example. There are two people. One says that the Earth circles around the Sun, and the other one says that the Sun circles around the Earth. Both of them are right, and both of them are wrong.

From the point of view of the Earth, the Sun circles around the Earth. But from the point of view of the Sun, or Mars, the Earth circles around the Sun.

There is no absolute point of view. This was proven by Einstein.

[Akrid]

  An example. There are two people. One says that the Earth circles around the Sun, and the other one says that the Sun circles around the Earth. Both of them are right, and both of them are wrong.

From the point of view of the Earth, the Sun circles around the Earth. But from the point of view of the Sun, or Mars, the Earth circles around the Sun.

There is no absolute point of view. This was proven by Einstein.

 

If you consider that the sun is frying the earth on all sides as the earth spins then we are getting sun all around the earth but the sun is not physicaly going around the earth, nomatter how much the one person may say it is that stament is FALSE. they are not equaly right and wrong, and thats not what Einstein siad you got it mixed up.

[Peregrine]

If you consider that the sun is frying the earth on all sides as the earth spins then we are getting sun all around the earth but the sun is not physicaly going around the earth, nomatter how much the one person may say it is that stament is FALSE. they are not equaly right and wrong, and thats not what Einstein siad you got it mixed up.

 

Wrong again. All coordinate systems are relative and equally valid. The only reason it is generally accepted that the earth revolves around the sun is because it makes working with the system a lot easier. The orbital equations are massively simplified that way, but that doesn't make it the only option.

 

Go take some engineering classes. You'll quickly discover that the only thing determining which reference origin you use is your own convenience.

[Indoril Nerevar]

Peregrine, This goes back to your everything is just a theory. Why can't you state facts instead of opinions?