Retired Mod Authors and Leaving Nexus

[TheMastersSon]

the mod author transfers ownership to Bethesda

Please explain how that's not converting modders' work as a hobby into a corporate financial asset. Also please explain what mod author in his or her right mind is going to voluntarily give up ownership of work they've been doing for in many cases well over a decade.

Edited February 18, 2018 by TheMastersSon

[Reneer]

Please explain how that's not converting modders' work as a hobby into a corporate financial asset. Also please explain what mod author in his or her right mind is going to voluntarily give up ownership of work they've been doing for in many cases well over a decade.

There is no "conversion" of anything or anyone. Everything is voluntary: mod authors choose to be in the program and mod users choose to purchase the content. Mod authors can still create both free and Creation Club content at the same time. Everything in the Creation Club has to be "new" content, as in everything in the mod is made from scratch. So mod authors can't simply port mods, models, or anything else that they've already created to the Creation Club.

 

As for which mod authors: Elianora, Trainwiz, fadingsignal, and several others (there is no list anywhere) who have all been creating mods for a long time.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Reneer

[TheMastersSon]

 

Please explain how that's not converting modders' work as a hobby into a corporate financial asset. Also please explain what mod author in his or her right mind is going to voluntarily give up ownership of work they've been doing for in many cases well over a decade.

There is no "conversion" of anything or anyone. Everything is voluntary: mod authors choose to be in the program and mod users choose to purchase the content. Mod authors can still create both free and Creation Club content at the same time. Everything in the Creation Club has to be "new" content, as in everything in the mod is made from scratch. So mod authors can't simply port mods, models, or anything else that they've already created to the Creation Club.

I've commented on the "create everything from scratch" theory in other threads so I won't repeat it here. IMO it's utter nonsense especially for smaller mods, many of which do little or nothing else except modify game variables. How exactly is one supposed to "rewrite" these mods "from scratch"? Also, one and only one best way exists for any given task in any script, to require rewrites is to require code that is something other than optimal. No established difference whatsoever exists between the definitions of "from scratch" and one giant and slightly modified copy/paste function. This entire concept was half-baked imo.

 

As for which mod authors: Elianora, Trainwiz, fadingsignal, and several others (there is no list anywhere) who have all been creating mods for a long time.

Methinks the lists of mod authors who've opted out of the CC, have taken their mods down, and/or have claimed retirement from modding etc are many times longer. Edited February 19, 2018 by TheMastersSon

[HeyYou]

 

 

Please explain how that's not converting modders' work as a hobby into a corporate financial asset. Also please explain what mod author in his or her right mind is going to voluntarily give up ownership of work they've been doing for in many cases well over a decade.

There is no "conversion" of anything or anyone. Everything is voluntary: mod authors choose to be in the program and mod users choose to purchase the content. Mod authors can still create both free and Creation Club content at the same time. Everything in the Creation Club has to be "new" content, as in everything in the mod is made from scratch. So mod authors can't simply port mods, models, or anything else that they've already created to the Creation Club.

I've commented on the "create everything from scratch" theory in other threads so I won't repeat it here. IMO it's utter nonsense especially for smaller mods, many of which do little or nothing else except modify game variables. How exactly is one supposed to "rewrite" these mods "from scratch"? Also, one and only one best way exists for any given task in any script, to require rewrites is to require code that is something other than optimal. No established difference whatsoever exists between the definitions of "from scratch" and one giant and slightly modified copy/paste function. This entire concept was half-baked imo.

 

As for which mod authors: Elianora, Trainwiz, fadingsignal, and several others (there is no list anywhere) who have all been creating mods for a long time.

Methinks the lists of mod authors who've opted out of the CC, have taken their mods down, and/or have claimed retirement from modding etc are many times longer.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it's the same with scripts.

 

There is no 'opt out' of CC, you either apply, or you don't. We have no hard numbers on how many have applied, nor do we have hard numbers and how many have not. Granted, I would suspect that the number of 'nots', greatly exceeds the number of 'has'.

 

I don't know of anyone that has quit modding because of CC. I know there are a few that pulled all their mods from beth.net because of it....... And yes, a fair few have retired as well, but, that is simply par for the course. It happens with EVERY game.

[Reneer]

I've commented on the "create everything from scratch" theory in other threads so I won't repeat it here. IMO it's utter nonsense especially for smaller mods, many of which do little or nothing else except modify game variables. How exactly is one supposed to "rewrite" these mods "from scratch"? Also, one and only one best way exists for any given task in any script, to require rewrites is to require code that is something other than optimal. No established difference whatsoever exists between the definitions of "from scratch" and one giant and slightly modified copy/paste function. This entire concept was half-baked imo.

Well, go look at the current crop of CC mods. Do any of those look "copied and pasted" to you?

 

And I can tell you as a script writer for the past 12 years (and programmer for much longer) that there is definitely more than one way to write a script, even when the scripts accomplish the same end goal.

 

Methinks the lists of mod authors who've opted out of the CC, have taken their mods down, and/or have claimed retirement from modding etc are many times longer.

I provided a list of several mod authors who I know for a fact are in the Creation Club, mod authors who are pillars of the community, and your response is "my list is bigger than yours!" like that somehow means anything. I also notice you moving the goalposts - first you asked "What mod authors in their right mind would do this" and when I gave you several prominent examples, suddenly it's all about who has the larger list size (which, again, is asinine). Edited February 20, 2018 by Reneer

[TheMastersSon]

And I can tell you as a script writer for the past 12 years (and programmer for much longer) that there is definitely more than one way to write a script, even when the scripts accomplish the same end goal.

Your comment while correct has nothing to do with mine. Obviously more than one way exists to accomplish a given programming task. My point is that only one best way exists. Ditto the issue about numbers of authors who've opted into the CC. I never said nobody would do it, only those who're either crazy or don't care about retaining control of their own work.

[Reneer]

Your comment while correct has nothing to do with mine. Obviously more than one way exists to accomplish a given programming task. My point is that only one best way exists.

While this may be true in a theoretical sense, programmers (and scripters) are limited both by their own level of knowledge and the constraints of the language they are programming in when working towards a design goal. Optimizing a few lines of code is easy. Optimally, let alone a "best way", writing 1,000+ lines of code is pretty much Herculean. Plus, of course, there is no definition of what your "best way" is.

 

Ditto the issue about numbers of authors who've opted into the CC. I never said nobody would do it, only those who're either crazy or don't care about retaining control of their own work.

So, which of those mod authors I listed would you consider to be "crazy"? And I would call "not retaining control of your own work", and getting paid in the process, a job. Edited February 20, 2018 by Reneer

[TheMastersSon]

I would call "not retaining control of your own work", and getting paid in the process, a job.

That was and still is my point. Most modders do it for a hobby, not a job or living. And doing it for the latter imposes support and other requirements etc. The terms of CC involvement allow no other option.

 

Again, if our media and cable TV industries are successful in their current efforts to destroy net neutrality, even the visibility of independent modders will go the same way as usenet links, international links, file and video sharing links, and basically anything and everything else not directly related to buying counterfeit crap from China. With a few keystrokes at Google HQ the entire independent modding community or something close to it will vanish permanently from known existence.

Edited February 20, 2018 by TheMastersSon

[Reneer]

That was and still is my point. Most modders do it for a hobby, not a job or living. And doing it for the latter imposes support and other requirements etc. The terms of CC involvement allow no other option.

 

As I've said already, mod authors transfer ownership to Bethesda once the creation has finished Quality Assurance and Bethesda, not the author of the creation, then sells the creation to users and is responsible for any and all support. So mod authors in the Creation Club get paid to develop the creation, while Bethesda owns, sells, and supports it. Just like any programmer or 3D modeler working for a videogame developer.

 

And what "most modders" do doesn't matter. If they want to mod as a hobby, they can do that. If they want to work within the Creation Club and make money, they have every right and no one should tell them otherwise.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Reneer

[leonardo2]

 

the mod author transfers ownership to Bethesda

Please explain how that's not converting modders' work as a hobby into a corporate financial asset. Also please explain what mod author in his or her right mind is going to voluntarily give up ownership of work they've been doing for in many cases well over a decade.

A mod author does NOT own a mod, it is Bethesda who owns it since it is stated in the EULA, which all players must agree to follow before installing Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. That also applies for the Fallout series too.

 

When Bethesda launched the Creation Club, the main purpose for modding as a hobby simple vanished and a lot of modders decided to retire as it wasn't fun anymore and modding had lost its charm.

 

Even my mod for both SLE and SSE is a property of Bethesda and I cannot make money of it without permission from Bethesda / Zenimax, which is stated in the EULA and I have no other choice than to agree with the EULA when I installed Skyrim.