Reneer Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) In what country do you live, where your right to sell your own property is limited by terms and restrictions from the companies who manufactured or produced it? Can you name even one example of this? I'm referring to legally enforceable limits on sale, not software EULAs which have been absurd for the last 30+ years and that legally amount to nothing but wishlists from software publishers. EULAs are not civil law and they have no direct relevance to civil law in my country (the U.S.)EULAs are legally enforceable, they are contracts, and if you break them the company can potentially sue you. And, yes, this is in the United States, where I also happen to live. And you don't own the software. You are given a license to use it. A very important distinction, that, yes, courts within the United States have ruled is legal. But hey, don't take my word for it. Go do your own research. Edited February 22, 2018 by Reneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMage2 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Totally ignoring the legal soup here and just dealing with the original question. I don't think CC is all that relevant for mod authors retiring or moving on, though I am sure there will be some who have stated it as a reason. I would speculate that they simply selected CC from a multitude of reasons, and were in fact acting on a synchronicity of motivations that came together to form a consensus in their own minds. The equation for why people move on wouldn't be complicated. If W = work that goes into modding, and T = time spent on modding, and R = the return from modding which could be enjoyment or pleasure or enhanced self-esteem or monetary or whatever. When (Work+Time) > Return, or even if (work+Time) < Return but Return is less than the Return you can get from doing something else, then it's time to move on. It's only complicated when trying to understand the value of the return which would be dependant on the subjective perspective of the author. And the value of the return will not be fixed, it will be in a constant state of flux being influenced by whatever else is going on in a persons life, physically, mentally, and emotionally. Whether modding were a hobby or a business would make no difference. Some authors will inevitably replace modding with something that gives a greater return, or they will alter the circumstances of their involvement for a more favourable return, which might involve removing themselves from the public side of modding. It is very possible to embrace modding as a hobby and do it for the love of doing it, and still walk away because you have something else in your life that you love doing more. As for announcing a retirement, that's mostly going to be about informing mod users so they can set their expectations accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisnpuppy Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Basically...if you are no longer having fun with something why still do it? What sucks the fun out of something varies from individual to individual. Money isn't a huge deciding factor. I would think that the reason many mod authors move on is that they have..moved on. Life happens. You (and I use this as a general you) don't always have the time on your hands as you may have. Maybe your young when you go into modding then, graduate from school, get a job, house, spouse, 2.5 kids...maybe time is a factor. Maybe you have medical issues. Maybe you are older and can no longer spend all your time hunched over a computer. Maybe it gets boring. Maybe you think mod users are now a growing group of asshats? Maybe your fellow mod authors are driving you nuts? Maybe you think Bethesda sucks and Todd is the devil incarnate. Maybe you don't like payment and modding. Maybe you died (it has happened, sadly.) You can't just look at one thing, no matter how important (or not) that you think it is and assume the majority of people leaving this is do to that one thing, Causalities are a weird thing. Sure there are some drama-momma's out there that like to go on social medial and make like monkeys in the zoo throwing poo at people. They will make themselves the misunderstood artist that is being stomped into the ground by Beth and the CC and the horrible, horrible masses. Or you can say, Hey it's been great! So long and thanks for all the fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fkemman11 Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 What I am going to assume for the majority of authors is that people that enjoy playing video games enough to go to the trouble of learning about them, then making mods for themselves with whatever programs and tools are available, and then possibly start making mods to package and share with the community would not just up and quit playing video games one day or stop making game modifications for themselves. Now, assuming also that they haven't died, been abducted by aliens, ended up on a deserted island, or any other life circumstance that would essentially force them to stop playing games then that would mean that they made a choice to stop sharing. What do you think is the main reason that mod authors- here on Nexus- stop sharing their work? I still think that a lack of appreciation is the deciding factor for some or just hearing the same questions asked again and again. Then there are the abusive trolls that seem to thrive on seeing what all they can screw up for authors and other users alike.Not to often, I also read about some drama or ongoing tensions between people or groups in the community- I could include some quotes, but, I do not wish to accidentally expose anyone.Then, of course, there is the controversy swirling around the first abandoned attempt to "monetize" mods by Beth and the more recent CC that some authors strongly objected to and decided to not only stop sharing new mods, but, to hide or delete their existing mods as well in a show of disgust- I guess.Also, lets face it, the last offering by Beth in the form of FO4 was not what many were expecting. Authors and long time fans of the series were at least mildly disappointed by it and thus not very interested in making any mods for it. I could quote several very popular authors that have said in no uncertain terms that they will never make a mod for FO4 and are not interested in going back to do more work on older games like Skyrim and FO3/FNV. So they quit.Mod theft is another reason that I have read a few times. Some author's given reason to stop sharing any more mods was theft of his/her work and the appearance of it on another site (or even the same site in a couple of instances). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisnpuppy Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Well, Fkemman, it seems like you have made your decision as to the reasons and have answered your own questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMastersSon Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) "EULAs are legally enforceable"I'll exit this thread here, because again I find myself trying to argue with near-total ignorance. EULAs are not legally enforceable or unenforceable, individual EULA terms may be enforceable as long as they don't violate existing contract or other civil law. Read the quoted bit from Bethesda in a prior post. In our country one either owns something or one doesn't, one does not sort of own property, or have conditions of ownership from others. Again I'll wait patiently for a single example of this in our country, other than overly hopeful and in many cases illegal and therefore unenforceable terms in computer software and entertainment media EULAs. Edited February 23, 2018 by TheMastersSon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reneer Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Since you are apparently unwilling to figure out what the law says on your own, I'll get you started: Vernor v. Autodesk, a 9th Circuit ruling, which found that because software is licensed to end users (which means they don't own it) and if the copyright holder indicates in a License Agreement that you can't resell the software, then you can't resell it, even under the First Sale Doctrine. Bowers v. Baystate Technologies, Inc., a Federal Circuit case. Bowers sold software with a shrinkwrap license that prohibited reverse engineering the software. Baystate Technologies reverse engineered the software anyway, assuming they would be protected by "fair use". Instead, the Federal Circuit found Baystate guilty of breach of contract. This one is important because it shows that License Agreements can preempt the Copyright Act. Microsoft v. Harmony Computers & Electronics, Eastern New York District Court. Harmony Computers was found guilty of copyright infringement and breach of contract by selling copies of Microsoft Windows unbundled with a computer. They tried to argue that their actions were protected by the First Sale Doctrine, but the court did not agree with that rationale. Edited February 23, 2018 by Reneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMastersSon Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 And still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangela Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Mod authors do eventually gain a fanbase.. and while they don't have to announce such a thing, it's courteous of them to let their fans know what the deal is. I never see it as 'semi-dramatic'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reneer Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) And still waiting.If you're unwilling to consider what is clearly shown by those court cases, then I'm done discussing this. Go try and sell a Bethesda games mod to prove that the EULA is bogus. You won't get far, as others who have tried in the past found out. Edited February 23, 2018 by Reneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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