Foreign troops on national soil

[MajKrAzAm]

Out of curiosity, and no other reason, I would like to know what peoples of different countries feel about having foreign soldiers on their soil. What do people see as the difference between more temporary training purposes and more permanent garrisoning, bases etc, if any?

 

Garrisoning forces in allied nations including South Korea, Japan and Australia allows the US to rotate deployment of personnel allowing for consistent interoperability standards in East Asia.

 

As an example take an exercise like Cobra Gold or just about every NATO exercise. Without these exercises to set interoperability standards, doctrine and then offer a framework to exercise and practice it, the ability of Allied nations to form even marginally effective military coalitions would rapidly atrophy. Just take a look at what a mess Libya turned into even with decades of NATO exercises and bloated budgets. Now imagine how it would have turned out without years of interoperability training standards.

 

In the Western Pacific, we have Australia, South Korea, and Japan as close allies with powerful militaries, as well as smaller powers like Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. We exercise with the major countries regularly, and also do so with the smaller powers. These exercises allow the US to maintain interoperability from a logistics perspective with all three major countries to the same degree as we do with our NATO allies, and we maintain close military to military relationships enabling a discussion of doctrine and force employment.

 

We can play with Japan, Australia, South Korea, Thailand, etc, in an ad hoc manner because they maintain interoperability standards with us. Training exercises and the garrisoning of small forces allow us to develop a base-line for the co-ordination of allied forces. Minus the Australians really, every other country we work with happens only within the confines of whatever exercise we do with them annually (like Cobra Gold for example). In this context you can think of the exercise guidance and such as little mini-NATO doctrines. They stay constant every year and set the baseline for interoperability between the countries.

 

I am also asking this question because of certain Americans' response to activities of some Mexican soldiers on US soil that supposedly happen in response to a crisis on American soil and Mexico sending soldiers to assist. How do Americans, non Americans, Mexicans, feel about this? There is also the fact that the US Constitution forbids foreign troops on American soil but has its troops on foreign soil? What do people feel about that?

 

I grew up in Texas but my family is from Mexico. I would love to see more US/Mexican co-operation between the two regarding border issues, especially against the cartels operating in the region. The problem is that corruption within the Mexican military means that a lot of military personnel are outright bought by cartels to protect drug and migrant smugglers. Say what you will about the behavior of American sailors/marines but you're unlikely to see marine expeditionary amphibs dragging along South-East Asian Boat refugees to your country.

[Drakescale]

My point of view. There is no real need for foreign military bases in present day warfare. With ease of transportation, allied forces can be within range in a matter of weeks if not days. Are the country in question that feeble and unable to protect themselves using their own military resources that they had to rely on drunk rednecks for protection? They have our own problems like mr. local drunkard. Don't need another drunkard foreign redneck adding to it. It costs money. AND they don't need some covert peeping operation on their privacy (oh yeah, it happens, Israel on its own ally the US? *wink wink*). So my advise: Treat your neighbors nicely and with respect.

 

Although there's also the politicians with little to no military experience (other than being in a military exhibition and alike, simply putting his hand on a rocket and says cheese for the newspapers) making the decision to have foreign placement in said country. The flaw of democracy. *sign*

 

As far as joint training operations, it's better to say no. Teaching a foreign country how to beat your ass if you disagree is not the answer. Especially when they have satellite power to back it up. Doing otherwise will only increase their efficiency at dominating the battlefield on your own soil.

 

Since you ask, that how I feel about the whole thing :P

[csgators]

I know as an American living in America if there had been a UK or Indian or Japanese or whatever base down the road with drunken foreign troops at our bars I would have been intensely angry and insulted. It would have meant that not only could we not defend ourselves but we had given over sovereignty to another nation. I can understand it in some case (S. Korea would not be there if not for our help). But if you are serious about being independent it would be unacceptable to have a another country maintain a base on your land.

Thats a bit disingenuous CS , we both know where you are currently residing. Having been in a myriad of bars with drunks of all nationalities why is a foreign serviceman anymore offensive than the local redneck? They are both drunks and equally a pain in the ass.

 

As far as I know and as far as Google can tell me there are zero military bases run by foreign governments where I live. As far as drunk serviceman go, I concede the point, fine. Having guests for training is no problem, having a permanent base means your country can't defend itself. Period. If you can't defend yourself then what are you really? A puppet? A slave? A barrier? What? I have moved away from the blood sucking, life draining slavery of America, yes. The country I live in now has bled oceans of blood to get it's Independence, they have fought off the two largest current powers in their history for the status they now have as an independent nation. That is not why I am here. My statement had nothing to do with where live now, it was about the nation I lived in before and the client states that allow themselves to be dominated by it. I do not love the government I live under right now, just as I don't love the one I lived under before. The government I love lived over 100 years ago and nothing like it exists now to my knowledge.

 

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

 

You tell me. Why are foreign troops on their soil? It would not be accepted in the US period. It would not be accepted in China. I am NOT talking about small scale presence for such things as training. I am talking about large permanent military presence. What does it say about the host country?

[Aurielius]

I know as an American living in America if there had been a UK or Indian or Japanese or whatever base down the road with drunken foreign troops at our bars I would have been intensely angry and insulted. It would have meant that not only could we not defend ourselves but we had given over sovereignty to another nation. I can understand it in some case (S. Korea would not be there if not for our help). But if you are serious about being independent it would be unacceptable to have a another country maintain a base on your land.

Thats a bit disingenuous CS , we both know where you are currently residing. Having been in a myriad of bars with drunks of all nationalities why is a foreign serviceman anymore offensive than the local redneck? They are both drunks and equally a pain in the ass.

 

As far as I know and as far as Google can tell me there are zero military bases run by foreign governments where I live. As far as drunk serviceman go, I concede the point, fine. Having guests for training is no problem, having a permanent base means your country can't defend itself. Period. If you can't defend yourself then what are you really? A puppet? A slave? A barrier? What? I have moved away from the blood sucking, life draining slavery of America, yes. The country I live in now has bled oceans of blood to get it's Independence, they have fought off the two largest current powers in their history for the status they now have as an independent nation. That is not why I am here. My statement had nothing to do with where live now, it was about the nation I lived in before and the client states that allow themselves to be dominated by it. I do not love the government I live under right now, just as I don't love the one I lived under before. The government I love lived over 100 years ago and nothing like it exists now to my knowledge.

 

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

 

You tell me. Why are foreign troops on their soil? It would not be accepted in the US period. It would not be accepted in China. I am NOT talking about small scale presence for such things as training. I am talking about large permanent military presence. What does it say about the host country?

Let us take a look at your rather dim view of this, which is IMO colored by your rather anti state attitude of our country.. The UK has allowed the US to maintain bases since the end of the Second World War, I am sure if you asked any of the Brits on this forum they would respond that they do not feel any less sovereign.

 

Next lets look at South Korea who absolutely want our presence without which they would be facing another North Korean incursion.

 

Japan who has several joint bases which by the terms of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan, the United States is obliged to defend Japan in close cooperation with the Japan Self-Defense Forces for maritime defense, ballistic missile defense, domestic air control, communications security (COMSEC), and disaster response operations.

 

Germany without our presence would have never been reunited, if you asked how Berliner's felt during the airlift I think they would not have preferred to starve which would have been the case minus those so called reprehensible bases.To date they also are not in a hurry to ask for the removal of the aforementioned bases.

 

We are a world power and the globe being what it is requires prepositioning, co operation and joint training with our allies to which we have made commitments. The US to which you assert fondness to only the 18th century version is long gone and never existed in your lifetime. We are far from perfect and a long way from ideal but I would rather stay and try to fix things than to decry from afar. So I might be forgiven if I question what exactly you have allegiance to, if anything.

[csgators]

I know as an American living in America if there had been a UK or Indian or Japanese or whatever base down the road with drunken foreign troops at our bars I would have been intensely angry and insulted. It would have meant that not only could we not defend ourselves but we had given over sovereignty to another nation. I can understand it in some case (S. Korea would not be there if not for our help). But if you are serious about being independent it would be unacceptable to have a another country maintain a base on your land.

Thats a bit disingenuous CS , we both know where you are currently residing. Having been in a myriad of bars with drunks of all nationalities why is a foreign serviceman anymore offensive than the local redneck? They are both drunks and equally a pain in the ass.

 

As far as I know and as far as Google can tell me there are zero military bases run by foreign governments where I live. As far as drunk serviceman go, I concede the point, fine. Having guests for training is no problem, having a permanent base means your country can't defend itself. Period. If you can't defend yourself then what are you really? A puppet? A slave? A barrier? What? I have moved away from the blood sucking, life draining slavery of America, yes. The country I live in now has bled oceans of blood to get it's Independence, they have fought off the two largest current powers in their history for the status they now have as an independent nation. That is not why I am here. My statement had nothing to do with where live now, it was about the nation I lived in before and the client states that allow themselves to be dominated by it. I do not love the government I live under right now, just as I don't love the one I lived under before. The government I love lived over 100 years ago and nothing like it exists now to my knowledge.

 

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

 

You tell me. Why are foreign troops on their soil? It would not be accepted in the US period. It would not be accepted in China. I am NOT talking about small scale presence for such things as training. I am talking about large permanent military presence. What does it say about the host country?

Let us take a look at your rather dim view of this, which is IMO colored by your rather anti state attitude of our country..

 

I admit to an anti-state attitude but it is not (primarily) directed at the USA. If it seems so it is because I love what the USA once was and what I think the USA could be once again. A beacon of freedom and liberty around the world. I love freedom. I am addicted to it. I want to eat it with a spoon. I want it with chocolate sauce and a cherry on top. The USA was once and in in many ways still is, a free place. But it is not nearly as free as it once was and not nearly as free as it thinks it is. You are not free when a man holds a gun to your head and takes large sums of money from your wallet. You are not free when you can't open a business without jumping through city, state and federal layers of bureaucracy just so they can decide if you are allowed to make money and just how much of that money you are required to pay to the slave masters (government). You are not free when the government that takes your wealth (read happiness form the Declaration of Independence) is still not sated and decides to devalues your worth further though printing money and borrowing money from other world powers (China). Since they are indebted to China this free country now allows goods that are essentially created by slave labor to flood our market (one bloated with regulation) with goods that are created without such regulation and labor laws and taxation. Good plan eh?

[HeyYou]

I know as an American living in America if there had been a UK or Indian or Japanese or whatever base down the road with drunken foreign troops at our bars I would have been intensely angry and insulted. It would have meant that not only could we not defend ourselves but we had given over sovereignty to another nation. I can understand it in some case (S. Korea would not be there if not for our help). But if you are serious about being independent it would be unacceptable to have a another country maintain a base on your land.

Thats a bit disingenuous CS , we both know where you are currently residing. Having been in a myriad of bars with drunks of all nationalities why is a foreign serviceman anymore offensive than the local redneck? They are both drunks and equally a pain in the ass.

 

As far as I know and as far as Google can tell me there are zero military bases run by foreign governments where I live. As far as drunk serviceman go, I concede the point, fine. Having guests for training is no problem, having a permanent base means your country can't defend itself. Period. If you can't defend yourself then what are you really? A puppet? A slave? A barrier? What? I have moved away from the blood sucking, life draining slavery of America, yes. The country I live in now has bled oceans of blood to get it's Independence, they have fought off the two largest current powers in their history for the status they now have as an independent nation. That is not why I am here. My statement had nothing to do with where live now, it was about the nation I lived in before and the client states that allow themselves to be dominated by it. I do not love the government I live under right now, just as I don't love the one I lived under before. The government I love lived over 100 years ago and nothing like it exists now to my knowledge.

 

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

 

You tell me. Why are foreign troops on their soil? It would not be accepted in the US period. It would not be accepted in China. I am NOT talking about small scale presence for such things as training. I am talking about large permanent military presence. What does it say about the host country?

Let us take a look at your rather dim view of this, which is IMO colored by your rather anti state attitude of our country..

 

I admit to an anti-state attitude but it is not (primarily) directed at the USA. If it seems so it is because I love what the USA once was and what I think the USA could be once again. A beacon of freedom and liberty around the world. I love freedom. I am addicted to it. I want to eat it with a spoon. I want it with chocolate sauce and a cherry on top. The USA was once and in in many ways still is, a free place. But it is not nearly as free as it once was and not nearly as free as it thinks it is. You are not free when a man holds a gun to your head and takes large sums of money from your wallet. You are not free when you can't open a business without jumping through city, state and federal layers of bureaucracy just so they can decide if you are allowed to make money and just how much of that money you are required to pay to the slave masters (government). You are not free when the government that takes your wealth (read happiness form the Declaration of Independence) is still not sated and decides to devalues your worth further though printing money and borrowing money from other world powers (China). Since they are indebted to China this free country now allows goods that are essentially created by slave labor to flood our market (one bloated with regulation) with goods that are created without such regulation and labor laws and taxation. Good plan eh?

 

So, you don't like the state because, they are stupid? Yeah, I would go along with that..... :D

[Marxist ßastard]

I love what the USA once was

When? Like, can you give a specific year?

[Maharg67]

I suspect people have missed the 'main' point of this debate.

 

The question is not whether there should be foreign soldiers on national soil but the idea that the people of any nation should have the right to decide on these important matters and not just the government. I believe that such matters, a very few in comparison to the very many that government could and should handle otherwise, need to be voted on by the people. Either by referendum or by having the matter brought before the people at election time.

 

My concerns are not military ones but democratic ones. The only strong democracy is an active, aware one of many healthy debates. Apathy, the failure of government to gain the direct consent of the people on vital matters, the automatic prioritization of defense security concerns over those of democratic ones, all lead to weak democracies and disempowered populations. Pointing to the fact that people have become used to not having a say, being disempowered, does not make the situation any better as far as I can see.

 

Defense security concerns are always important but if democracy itself is lost during the process, just what are we defending?

[Aurielius]

I love what the USA once was

When? Like, can you give a specific year?

I'm beginning to suspect 1491.... :whistling:

[myrmaad]

The government I love lived over 100 years ago and nothing like it exists now to my knowledge.

 

Ah the good old days, when men were men and wives were property.