How to solve general CTD issues. Not a question.

[joshkes]

I've been modding through Fallout 3, New Vegas, Skyrim, a replay of Oblivion, and now Fallout 4. I find myself constantly coming back to these forums and reading through mods' posts and even on Google and Reddit trying to find answers to CTD problems. Every time I start to get frustrated when I don't find an immediate patch or update or "fix" to solve my problem, I stop and calm down and try to remember the basic steps. Lots of times I can find a patch or something right away and all is good, but, for those times when I can't and my blood starts to boil, I just wanted to put my process in writing for all the others out there with the same issue. If you really want to have 100+ mods and have them all working, I have gathered a bit of advice that I would give to anyone having any problem.

This is going to seem like a lot of work on the first read-through, but, if you are at the point that you are searching internet forums for answers, this "lot of work" may save you a lot of time. I really hope it helps you as much as this process has helped me.

--- Before you begin ---

Remember, mods are community created add-ons to the game. They weren't created by the publisher. They were created by hundreds of nerds who love gaming. They use communities like this to organize and disseminate their ideas and creations to others, but, their creativity does not always mesh with the creativity of others. Game manufacturers try to create tools for people to use to bind everything together, but, they can't predict the levels of creativity that will come from the community. There are plenty of 'Plug-n-Play' mods out there, but, the majority of mods will take a little work on your part to integrate them into your game.

--- My standard steps for happy modding ---

#1 - Check that you have the latest patch for Fallout and the Unofficial Fallout Patch. Maybe you haven't checked in a month or so and some of the mods you just downloaded have already been updated to the latest FO version. This happens to me more than I like to admit. I haven't played in a while. I fire up a new game and almost immediately want to mod something and then it all falls apart. It's usually because either I didn't update to the latest FO4 version or I didn't get the latest FO4 Unofficial Patch version (an outdated patch with a new FO4 may very easily cause crashes and it's amplified by the number of mods you have installed). Go through your current mod list, if you have one, and make sure you are using the latest version of all the mods as well. If for some reason you don't want to have the latest version then make sure the mods you have are for the version of FO4 you are running. Look through each mods "other files". (I've heard of people sticking with 1.9.x because of some reason or other).

#2 - DL everything you can through NMM and create a specific folder in your Fallout install folder for tools. You are going to need tools no matter how low level your modding desires are. That's just the way modding works. Using anything outside the Bethesda provided files means you will need to have tools to put your "better" version of the game together.

#3 - DL the proper tools for casual modding. F4SE, LOOT, FO4Edit, Fallout 4 Config Tool, and the Fallrim Tool are all must-haves if you want to use a lot of mods but don't want to learn every detail of modding. Open NMM and click the folder icon at top that has the crossed tools on it. If you have not done it already, it should have a list of tools that say "Config LOOT", "Config FO4Edit", etc.. Click on each and tell NMM where you installed each of those tools. I use a folder in my FO4 folder called "tools". Sometimes a file like F4SE need to go in the Fallout directory, just read the main page for each tool. If it doesn't say it needs to be in the FO4 install directory, put it in the Fallout 4/tools directory so you will know where it is. Just point NMM to where you installed them.

#4 - Expect CTDs (Crash To Desktop). When you start adding all kinds of new things that weren't built into the game, problems WILL come up. Fallout's default way to handle that is to simply quit. Just go ahead and assume that each new mod you install will possibly require some level of 'tweaking' to get it to work right. Step #5 solves almost all of those problems.

--- Now on to some stuff that may require you to work ---

#5 - *** THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP TO MODDING *** When you are looking for new mods, use the Nexus website to sort by # of downloads or by # of Endorsements for all time. The most popular mods "of all time" have the least bugs and best support in the forums. The most popular mods "This week" may be fun, but probably still have tons of bugs and will cause serious problems. These new, popular mods are great for the experienced modder who just wants to see what it's like to have a deathclaw dog companion who runs around with them and uses it's 12 sexy, physics enabled nipples to shoot lightsabers that use the Institute transporter to take him to any "player map marker" on the map, but, they can cause TONS of problems with all sorts of technical stuff like scripts that the average player doesn't want to have to deal with. Just stick to the stuff at the top of the 'all time' lists and your life will be much easier. That said: Every time you download a new mod, first, READ THE MAIN PAGE. Look for compatibility issues with mods you already have. This is the number 1 way to make sure your game works. After you've done that, go to the files tab and look through all the available downloads. Often a mod won't say on the front page that you need a patch to make it work with some other mod you have or it may have specific versions for your computer's memory or speed. At least glance through all the options. FOLLOWING THIS STEP WILL PREVENT THE MAJORITY OF PROBLEMS.

#6 - Once you've installed a new mod, run LOOT from the NMM tools menu. It will put your mods in the correct load order. Your Load order is stored in a file that LOOT, NMM, and all other "sorting" tools can find. Sorting and saving your load order in LOOT changes it in NMM as well. Open both in separate windows you can even watch it happen. LOOT makes sure NMM loads them correctly. There will be a small chance that the mod you have downloaded isn't in the LOOT MasterList yet. It's rare, but it happens. The advice I'm giving is for noob modders. Don't use that mod. Find a similar mod that does something similar or just wait until LOOT adds that mod. Doing otherwise may require you to do some more advanced mod modifications. I'm assuming you don't want to do that and just want to play your game ASAP.

#7 - Look through the LOOT list and find any mods that have warnings or errors. Start from the top and fix those. There are many videos on YouTube on how to do that, but, the basic rundown is this: Open FO4Edit from the menu in NMM. You should have already added it to that tools menu in step #3. If you didn't, start all of this over. Modding your game means you are going to have to do some reading and some work. Once you've done that and you have FO4Edit running from the NMM tools menu, right click on the list of mods that pops up and select "select none". Then find the specific mod that needs fixed (you don't need to select the main FO4 file and the DLCs) and select that one only. Run FO4Edit. It will give you a list of all the mods the one you selected requires, plus the mod you selected at the bottom. Typically this is just the main FO4 file and DLC (it knows you need those) and the file you selected. Right click your mod. Select "apply filter for cleaning". Almost always your problems will be "ITM" or "Identical To Master" records. Right click your mod and select to delete those. Close FO4Edit.

#8 - Rinse and repeat. Go back to step #6 and run LOOT again and find the next mod with warnings. Do #7 over for each item with an "Identical to Master" warning. Once you have no warnings, go to #9. Sometimes you will get warnings about Mods not being the latest version number. This happens often if you have a mod that has a main file and a separate patch file. Check the mods page on Nexus, especially the files list tab. If you are sure you have the patch to the most current version, or, if the version LOOT is warning you about is one you do not need, go on to the next file in LOOT that has warnings. It's possible to finish this will LOOT still giving you "Outdated version detected" warnings. As an example, Alternate Settlements will give a warning that you are using an outdated version because it detects the patch as a separate mod. Just read the main page and the options on the "Files" tab to make sure you have the right one. If you do, you can ignore version warnings.

#9 - With all of your ITM errors cleaned and the mods you want installed, open FO4 through NMM using F4SE. Immediately create a new save and exit.

#10 - Open the Fallrim Tool from wherever you installed it. You will have to direct it to your saved game file, typically "C:\Users\{your_user_name}_\Documents\My Games\Fallout4\Saves". Note that you need to use your user name and it has an underscore after it. Sort your saves by when they were modified and pick the one you just made. In the FallRim tool, go to the "Clean" dropdown menu and do "Remove unattached elements". Once it's done, do the same but with "Remove undefined instances". Save your saved-game file (it will create a backup for you) and close the tool.

#11 - Run the Fallout 4 Config Tool from wherever you installed it. All this tool does is tweak your INI file which stores your settings for FO4. I wouldn't mess with much except maybe the HUD colors :wink:. The thing you need to do here is make sure that under the "Tweaks" Tab, you look at the bottom and make sure "Invalidate Archives" is selected. Save your INI and exit.

#12 - Open NMM. Use the little dropdown arrow to run your game from F4SE.

 

--- If all else fails ---

 

# Unlucky 13 - Sometimes, in extreme situations of frustration, it helps to use NMM to uninstall all of your mods. Run LOOT first and keep it open before you do this. After you have everything uninstalled, start to add them back, one by one, in the order they are listed in LOOT. This ensures that when you add a mod and it wants to overwrite a previous mod, it's usually OK to do so. If you followed step #5, sometimes a mod will tell you specially not to overwrite. Take heed of that. If you are really at wits end, read each mods page as you reinstall it to make sure it's OK to overwrite other mods. There will, rarely, be occasions where you clicked "Yes to Mod" for the overwrites when you should not have. If all else fails, this will usually fix anything.

# 666 - If that doesn't fix it, then you have most likely not followed all of the above steps completely, or, you have a mod that you just can't use. Maybe it's you. Maybe it's the mod (rarely, it happens. A game will move on but the mod author got a real job and couldn't support the mod anymore. The latest update of the game broke his "In The Top 20 of all Time" mod but now he doesn't have time to fix it. Also, some mods just don't work together. That's also a fact of life you may have to learn to live with. If the last step doesn't work the first time around, go, in the game, to the thing that's causing the problem. Maybe it's a piece of Legendary Armor you can't pick up. Maybe it's a light fixture you can't delete. Go stand next to it and save. Do the whole process over again, but, one mod at a time. After each mod, load up your saved file and try to pick up that armor or delete that spotlight. If you can do it, ALT-F4 out of the game so as to not corrupt your save. (If you are near a workbench or similar, you can quit and it won't let you save, but, force quitting is safest for your save file). Then do the process for the next mod in the LOOT list. Keep doing this until the game breaks. That last mod you added, go report a bug (if you want to go to heaven and have 77 virgins and be reincarnated as a cow or whatever) and then remove it from your list, because you and that mod, you don't make a good couple. There are ways you could find what other mod it's conflicting with, but, that takes a lot more work than what I have already told you to do and if you're a casual gamer just trying to add some mods to an awesome game, this has already turned in to more reading and work than you ever imagined a game would be. Just ditch that mod and move on.

--- Notes ---

Although the specific tools and mods change from game to game, this process has fixed 99% of problems I have run into while playing modded Bethesda games. If this process doesn't fix your problem, go through the steps again and pay close attention to the reading part. I've been guilty of skipping that many times. lol... :wink: If you still don't have a fix, Google. Sometimes with some very specific issues, you need very specific fixes. If you Google it and go through the latest comments on the Nexus Forum or Bug or Posts for each related mod, you can often find the answer there. Sometimes You'll find a Reddit post about it. That's usually not the case. As I said, this process has fixed 99% of the crashes in my game.

 

This is the nature of modding games. There are plenty of mods out there that work out of the box and require almost no work. There are also plenty of amazing mods out there that may require you to spend a couple of hours tweaking to work with your other mods.

I'm only posting this now because I had a CTD that was frustrating me and after an hour of angry Googling, I said to myself, "Wait, what do I always do to fix this stuff?" Then I took my own advice and followed these steps. Now my game works fine. I figured before I go back to playing, I'd share what I do with everyone else in case someone else has spent angry hours Googling and ended up here. Good luck and happy modding..

Edited June 23, 2018 by joshkes

[WeFellOut]

I don't want you to think this post was made in vain. It's very helpful, so if nobody else bothers to say it, then allow me:

Thank you very much.

[SirTwist]

I would like to add that in order to prevent some CTD, that you start only with say some body mods, texture and mesh mods, and one or two other mods. Get through until you are out of the vault. Then, make a solid save there, and then add in, one or two at a time, mods. Start the game. If you CTD then try again. It could just be the mod takes a bit longer to load in, or needs to be configured, or esle your might be rushing into the game itself. However, if your game is running still, quit the game, and add in another mod. And do it one at a time. No need to dump into a game like Fallout 4 a ton of mods, then expect it to work. Going slowly and carefully may make a difference in the long run. And for me, using a mod manager will help over installing manually. That way, I can track what I am doing.

[xrayy]

there are many ways leading to stability. i do it the way sirtwist recommends.

additionally:

- rely never on tools for ini or setup optimization - i recommend not to change anything i do not understand. read and study about a setting before changing it manually.

- use a capable and future proof mod manager. nmm is definitely not that kind of tool. mo2 works perfectly fine for me since years including tracking mod errors and a clean and stable deletion of mods. vortex seems also to be a fine tool.

- never trust blindly any mod and never install more than one mod at a time. check the mod thread and error logs and test it as good as possible and be aware that one messed up texture or mesh may let you encounter ctd.

- if you encounter instabilty or ctd disable your installed mods backwards one by one until the instability disappears (this could be an unsolvable mess with nmm, loadorder and overwritten files). check also for messed up load order, missing patches or accidentally disabled esp or esp dependencies.

- always make a backup of your profile and ini settings

[HeyYou]

there are many ways leading to stability. i do it the way sirtwist recommends.

additionally:

- rely never on tools for ini or setup optimization - i recommend not to change anything i do not understand. read and study about a setting before changing it manually.

- use a capable and future proof mod manager. nmm is definitely not that kind of tool. mo2 works perfectly fine for me since years including tracking mod errors and a clean and stable deletion of mods. vortex seems also to be a fine tool.

- never trust blindly any mod and never install more than one mod at a time. check the mod thread and error logs and test it as good as possible and be aware that one messed up texture or mesh may let you encounter ctd.

- if you encounter instabilty or ctd disable your installed mods backwards one by one until the instability disappears. check also for messed up load order, missing patches or accidentally disabled esp or esp dependencies.

- always make a backup of your profile and ini settings

NMM still works just fine, and is still in active development, just, not officially anymore. There is absolutely zero reason to avoid using it. Just pick the one you like the best.

[xrayy]

nmm is a recommendation to begin with modding ? if you say so...

i doubt that nexusmods kicked nmm for no reason to say it nice and that they hired tannin for vortex just for fun, the author of the first mo version. nmm has major flaws but it may be still usable somehow for existing installations and for people who fear the new or modern mod manager.

but it would never get my recommendation for a new installation for fo4 or skyrim. maybe you better try one of the other mod manager first and compare seriously. and please check the nmm built in incapability to trace complex mod instabilites with dependencies regarding overwritten files and a bigger number of mods involved. is this incapability cured in nmm ? and if so how ?

 

an example where nmm miserably fails (original post of a nmm user):

if your doing a large installation of say 200+ mods, your going to run into issues with Overwrites more than you will think because with Nexus Mod Manager it essentially requires you to remember that X mod overwrites Y mod. Now imagine that you have 200 letters of mods and the next mod you want to install tomorrow tells you that you have to install 20 modules in correct order, some of those modules are already installed on your NMM and some not.....Basically if the reader did his work he would understand he has to uninstall the modules from NMM, have all 20 mods on hand and then follow proper installation procedure.

 

that was exactly my experience with nmm six years ago and the reason i`ve never touched it again and switched to mo and then to mo2. never had a problem with mod installation and overwritten files again or the need of a complete reinstallation. probably one of the reasons nexusmods kicked nmm and hired tannin. so nmm maybe good looking and still fine if you install a few simple mods. say 10, but not many more and not with a complex installation procedure and overwriting other mod files.

[HeyYou]

nmm is a recommendation to begin with modding ? if you say so...

i doubt that nexusmods kicked nmm for no reason to say it nice and that they hired tannin for vortex just for fun, the author of the first mo version. nmm has major flaws but it may be still usable somehow for existing installations and for people who fear the new or modern mod manager.

but it would never get my recommendation for a new installation for fo4 or skyrim. maybe you better try one of the other mod manager first and compare seriously. and please check the nmm built in incapability to trace complex mod instabilites with dependencies regarding overwritten files and a bigger number of mods involved. is this incapability cured in nmm ? and if so how ?

 

an example where nmm miserably fails (original post of a nmm user):

if your doing a large installation of say 200+ mods, your going to run into issues with Overwrites more than you will think because with Nexus Mod Manager it essentially requires you to remember that X mod overwrites Y mod. Now imagine that you have 200 letters of mods and the next mod you want to install tomorrow tells you that you have to install 20 modules in correct order, some of those modules are already installed on your NMM and some not.....Basically if the reader did his work he would understand he has to uninstall the modules from NMM, have all 20 mods on hand and then follow proper installation procedure.

 

that was exactly my experience with nmm six years ago and the reason i`ve never touched it again and switched to mo and then to mo2. never had a problem with mod installation and overwritten files again or the need of a complete reinstallation. probably one of the reasons nexusmods kicked nmm and hired tannin. so nmm maybe good looking and still fine if you install a few simple mods. say 10, but not many more and not with a complex installation procedure and overwriting other mod files.

Nexus hired Tannin because they wanted to do something "New" with their mod installation tool, and it wasn't practical to do so with NMM.

 

Regardless of which mod installation tool you use, the "Rule of One" still applies. For any given record, only ONE mod can change it. The one that loads LAST. Back in the day, when NMM actually installed mods to the game folder, installation order was indeed important, however, even NMM has changed since then, and uses a flavor of Virtual File System, just like MO, MO2, and Vortex. Load order determines which mod 'wins', not installation order, so, the scenario you describe, is no longer an issue, and hasn't been for quite some time.

 

As for texture mods, if the textures are packed in archives, (which most are these days.....) The Rule of One also applies. The mod that loads last, wins. Mixing and matching textures from various packs that have overlap..... load order determines which 'wins'. And you can't have the same mod loading in several different positions. So again, even with 'loose' files, load order still wins. If you want to combine texture packs, a fair bit of work is going to be required on the part of the player, to unpack the archives, pick and choose which textures they want, re-pack the archive, and make sure it loads. Once again, it simply doesn't matter which mod installation tool you are using, the GAME still works the exact same way.

 

Also, having more than one installation tool installed, and using both on the same game, is a REALLY bad idea, and pretty much guarantees that you are going to have problems. NMM works perfectly fine for me, and a boatload of other users. Granted, Vortex seems to be the tool of choice these days, and I suspect the folks still using NMM are 'legacy' users, that had it installed, and working, and didn't feel a need to change to the new and shiny tools that came out later.

 

Moral of the story? Use only ONE tool, use the one you like/are comfortable with, and don't worry about the 'newer is better' train, unless you plan on doing a complete re-installation of all the games handled by your current tool anyway.

[xrayy]

"Regardless of which mod installation tool you use, the "Rule of One" still applies. For any given record, only ONE mod can change it. The one that loads LAST. Back in the day, when NMM actually installed mods to the game folder, installation order was indeed important, however, even NMM has changed since then, and uses a flavor of Virtual File System, just like MO, MO2, and Vortex. Load order determines which mod 'wins', not installation order, so, the scenario you describe, is no longer an issue, and hasn't been for quite some time."

 

clearly no, for mo and mo2. the "rule of one" as an overwrite decision during installation clearly does not exist for mo/mo2. this is nmm specific and a major flaw.

you can change load order in mo2 whenever you want. if you decide the texture in mod 2 is nicer than the one of mod1 you can change the load order without a need to reinstall anything or any mod. and the most important: you cannot break any other mod!

you just switch the load order of the mods in the loadorder tab and you can do this not just for a single mod but with the load order of all mods. not so with nmm without screwing up the data folder and the integrity of a big number of mods.

 

my last attempt to explain the major nmm flaws, most modders already know about: you are definintely wrong about the facts and there exist no possibilty to use a virtual file system "a little bit" in nmm if it does not exist at all. the major nmm flaw is well known and just ignored by some people like you for whatever reason. i explained the problem and it is your right to ignore it. as long as you do not have to do major changes in your profile you will be able to play with your nmm set up flawlessly. if a new mod messes up this stability in a complex file overwrite scenario you are screwed with nmm. not with mo or mo2.

mo/mo2 on the other hand does not know such rule of an overwrite priority decision during a mod installation. mo2 guarantees a clean and separated mod installation without overwriting any other mod. the"file overwriting" happens just virtually while playing the game and file priority can be changed all the time and at any stage, whenever you want and without changing and reinstalling any mod or mod load order.

 

what is so difficult for you to accept and understand this major nmm flaw and why do you communicate it like peanuts if it is clearly a major nmm design flaw ? screwing up mod integrity due to a mandatory file deletion decision during installation is an obvious no go for a new installation with the goal to mod more than only a few mods without major mod integrity and priority problems or if you like do change load order as you like and whenever you like without a hassle. The same severe problem applies in case of a bad new mod(s) installation and if you want to reverse the installation process in nmm and more than only a few mods are involved.

[HeyYou]

"Regardless of which mod installation tool you use, the "Rule of One" still applies. For any given record, only ONE mod can change it. The one that loads LAST. Back in the day, when NMM actually installed mods to the game folder, installation order was indeed important, however, even NMM has changed since then, and uses a flavor of Virtual File System, just like MO, MO2, and Vortex. Load order determines which mod 'wins', not installation order, so, the scenario you describe, is no longer an issue, and hasn't been for quite some time."

 

clearly no, for mo and mo2. the "rule of one" as an overwrite decision during installation clearly does not exist for mo/mo2. this is nmm specific and a major flaw.

you can change load order in mo2 whenever you want. if you decide the texture in mod 2 is nicer than the one of mod1 you can change the load order without a need to reinstall anything or any mod. and the most important: you cannot break any other mod!

you just switch the load order of the mods in the loadorder tab and you can do this not just for a single mod but with the load order of all mods. not so with nmm without screwing up the data folder and the integrity of a big number of mods.

 

my last attempt to explain the major nmm flaws, most modders already know about: you are definintely wrong about the facts and there exist no possibilty to use a virtual file system "a little bit" in nmm if it does not exist at all. the major nmm flaw is well known and just ignored by some people like you for whatever reason. i explained the problem and it is your right to ignore it. as long as you do not have to do major changes in your profile you will be able to play with your nmm set up flawlessly. if a new mod messes up this stability in a complex file overwrite scenario you are screwed with nmm. not with mo or mo2.

mo/mo2 on the other hand does not know such rule of an overwrite priority decision during a mod installation. mo2 guarantees a clean and separated mod installation without overwriting any other mod. the"file overwriting" happens just virtually while playing the game and file priority can be changed all the time and at any stage, whenever you want and without changing and reinstalling any mod or mod load order.

 

what is so difficult for you to accept and understand this major nmm flaw and why do you communicate it like peanuts if it is clearly a major nmm design flaw ? screwing up mod integrity due to a mandatory file deletion decision during installation is an obvious no go for a new installation with the goal to mod more than only a few mods without major mod integrity and priority problems or if you like do change load order as you like and whenever you like without a hassle. The same severe problem applies in case of a bad new mod(s) installation and if you want to reverse the installation process in nmm and more than only a few mods are involved.

And you apparently don't know how NMM works now. Maybe you should educate yourself.

 

On Older version, (Pre-.63, I think) what you state was indeed accurate, but, when NMM implemented Profiles, that all changed. Load order determines which mod wins. Not installation order.

[xrayy]

this is an info from an nmm user. maybe he is still on an old version (?) and if so you maybe can expain why and how nmm changed the design flaw even if nmm users seem to be aware of and why they do not use your new version. i still miss your logical explanation how the free configuration of a load order and overwrite decision should work without a virtual file system. let me know, i'm curious!n

 

probably this part of the step guid has also to be changed ?

"Typical mod managers like NMM and WB install mods into the data directory of the game being modded. When installing mods, they keep a record of all installed files. This allows them to detect if a mod overwrites files of the original game and/or one or more existing mods. The user is given the option to overwrite such files. All files are added to the original game data directory. Hence the once empty and pristine state of the game data directory is lost. These programs have algorithms to restore files on the FS when, for example, mod B, which had overwritten files from mod A, is uninstalled. When using Profiles and changing the order in which mods were installed, these programs make changes to the windows file system by copying/deleting files on it. Depending on the performed actions this can take considerable time. If these programs work perfectly and Windows works perfectly, no harm will be done to the file system and the game continues to work. Unfortunately, this is not always the case, and problems may arise."

 

Unfortunately this also happend to me. so - no nmm recommendation from my side.