Oblivion races are way to week

[blackninja50]

Okay. According to the TES construction set wiki the weight of items in Oblivion are measured in ounces, so a Daedric dagger would weigh 10 ounces almost a pound (a pound is 16 ounces). Now the problem with this is that my lvl 39 character with 93 strength can only carry 500 ounces (with a father spell) thats 31.25 pounds WTF! Thats total bull, I can lift over 100 pounds and walk around (The most I ever picked up was 160 pounds and yes I was still able to walk around). Realistically I should hardly be a match for an Orc or Nord in terms of strength, yet if I was in game I would be two to three times stronger then the strongest Orc, Nord or even Dremora. Am I the only one thats noticed this?

 

PS. A Nord or Orc should be able to carry at lest 200 pounds witch is not all that much seeing as the worlds strongest man, Paul Anderson, lifted 402.5 pounds (over his head).

[Lanceor]

I always thought they were pounds... where does it say ounces? If it were pounds, it would make more sense. Carrying 500 pounds would make your character 20% stronger than Paul Anderson which for a person with 93 strength living in a fantasy world would be about right.

[blackninja50]

Right here http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php/Category:Items It says "Weight of the object, in ounces." it's the only place I have ever found that says how the weight of items in oblivion are measured in. Also if it is in pounds then the wight of most weapons are ridiculously heavy, a katana in real life weighs 2 or 3 pounds not 20 (I own a replica it weighs 1 pound).

[jamochawoke]

Real swords are about 2-3 lbs.

 

Think about that.

 

You don't see people carrying around 15-20 swords all the time do you?

 

It's not based on weight so much as encumbrance.

 

And I don't care how much you can lift, you won't be lugging around 160lbs and fighting for more than 30 seconds before you are completely winded. I fight in martial arts matches and after a few rounds I'm beat and that's with no extra weight! I don't have the best endurance but even the guys who have cardio for days (like MMA fighters) can't do that kind of stuff.

 

Even knights in the Middle Ages only wore armor and equipment that totalled around 60 lbs. And it was evenly distributed so they could do things like rolls and handstands in the armor (an actual historical fact). The pictures you see of knights being lifted on to horses is for knights already wearing tournament armor (which was much thicker because nobody wanted anyone to actually die in a tournament, usually anyways) and those knights in particular were, umm, how do you say "encumbered with a gut".

[Xenavire]

Going off all the information in this thread, I have to say it is a little bit low. I am not particularly familiar with the metric system in place in america (pounds and ounces and gallons etc, it's like a different language to me) but I do know enough math to put into practice here. 60lbs is what a well prepared knight wore, times 16 (the conversion rate to ounces from the OP?) put's that wieght by oblivion standards at 960 ounces, almost double the example in the OP (500 ounces).

 

I agree it would be ridiculous to carry around 10 swords and 4 sets of full armor, but if we are playing heroes half as strong as historical figures, something seems a little off. (To me at least.)

 

Now to my own metric system for examples (and I will let others do the nitty gritty if they want to).

 

I am pretty wimpy physically, but I can still carry 10+ kg's on my back, and another 3+ per hand, and thats just when shopping, and I can easily walk several kilometers with no issues. And I am a wimp! I know the rough conversion would make that roughly 30-40 pounds, and anywhere from 5-10 miles.

 

So a fit, active hero should be easily able to carry at least twice as much, possibly even triple. As for fighting, they should easily be able to handle what I can handle (which is near 500 ounces I believe?) And probably more, so I think realistically they should be able to carry about 700 ounces minimum for max strength.

 

(For anyone wanting to dispute my math, AFAIK 15kg x2 = 30lbs x 16 =480 ounces. Feel free to correct any mistakes I made.)

 

EDIT:

Just checking in Oblivion now (and I am pretty sure I have vanilla weapons) an Elven bow is 16 ounces (1 pound right?) While lots of armour (light) is less than 16 ounces per piece (which seems a little odd to me, when the imperial dragon light armour all together seems to wiegh less than a bow.)

 

So the best way to fix this is make a mod to greatly increse carry wieght and make most weapons and armor a bit heavier (the ones that need it!) So you are able to freely carry 1 set of armour (possibly 2 if you are he-mans cousin, or use feather) and a few weapons and a shield. Anything else (books etc) do add up when you have a lot, so low-ish weights like they have now doesn't seem out of place.

(I think I remember mods that did make changes to a lot of weapon and armour weights, but I don't believe they changed the carry limits from str.)

Edited May 23, 2012 by Xenavire

[Striker879]

So why did Bethesda include weight and encumbrance in the game? Gameplay balance. Regardless of what units they may have said they were using, in fact what they are is units of gameplay hindrance.

 

If you turn off encumbrance altogether for instance, the game plays out differently. You only need to sell stuff when you need more gold for example, and can carry every last enchanted item you ever come across ... forever. Having encumbrance forces you to make decisions ... on what to take when you're looting and what to leave, or perhaps you're like me and the decision is how often to seek out a buyer for my loot.

 

The meat of the game isn't running around killing things ... it's deciding how to work around the limitations (challenges) the game designers have provided.

[Xenavire]

I don't honestly think anyone here is disputing that, it is just going by the wieght units listed and certain issues with wieghts of items, it is not very helpful for immersion. Currently I can choose to carry potions/soul gems/alchemy ingredients, and lots of them, or dozens of daggers/light swords, or several sets of armour.

 

The choice of which I want to carry is there, but the realism is not (honestly, do you expect a normal person to carry a couple of sets of greaves and chestpieces? Probably not, however spare boots and gauntlets would not be a tough thing to carry.)

Sometimes the vanilla values feel close, but other times they are WAY off.

 

If we even just take weight out of the question, the sheer mass of several pieces of armour would greatly outwiegh a second scabbarded sword, or a satchel full of potions.

 

A whole overhaul would be pretty nice, but from a realism standpoint, I am pretty much as capable and strong as the main hero of the game, according to the vanilla values. Which I hardly think is realistic. So a buff to the carry wieght would be a good step.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Xenavire

[Striker879]

I use kuertee's Magicka-based enchantment limits to allow multiple enchantments on equipment, and then try to balance between 'I want it all' and 'I am a purist'. It's easy to get carried away, but does alleviate the need to chose between an enchantment that will improve encumbrance (strength or feather) and one that will enhance other gameplay aspects (fortify magika or elemental shield for example). Unbalances the vanilla balances in a manner I find acceptable.

[Xenavire]

Oh, I never meant to imply there weren't acceptable workarounds (I gather you assume I am asking for a "fix" because I am upset with gameplay, while in actual fact I have tweaked and molded my game into something quite comfortable for myself.)

 

The idea itself is to have oblivion feel like a real life vs hero comparison, which only really matters due to numbers. I know for a fact the player can carry a great deal more than a real human could, enchants or not, it is more the feeling of knowing the exact weight the character can carry, and how much he/she is carrying... But put into real world standards?

 

I don't know how well I am explaining this, but look at it this way; player has effective carry wieght of about 30 pounds, can carry the effective mass/wieght of about 180 pounds. The realistic version should look like about 60-90 pounds carry limit, with the gear re-wieghted to fit normally (meaning you would have to leave about half of your heavy armours in storage, or using feather spells, which should be a LOT more important with this change.)

 

I am not even requesting a mod (I don't think anyone here is at this point), we are simply discussing the differences. (Having given Skyrim a test, it seems to be a little closer, but not having it installed now means I cannot go check exact values.)

It is mostly a comparison thread I guess. If some nice modder happened to walk away with an idea to make this into a mod, all the better. If I felt like doing the research, I almost think I could do this as my first ever mod, too bad I am afraid to break my game (or other mods I use).

 

From a technical viewpoint though, this would be possible for vanilla and SI/KotN, but would it be easily bashable? Or just best put at the end of the load order? (Assuming it only changes wieghts and mechanics for carry wieght.)

 

Ugh, I really need to stop rambling...

[Striker879]

Add to your list the ability to quickly drop all those extras when you plan on fighting a bad guy you run across (like the scene in Saving Private Ryan where they prepare to assault the machine gun nest at the destroyed radar station) but if you get jumped and don't have a chance to unload all your excess baggage you have a substantial penalty to your agility and endurance.

 

Don't worry ... I've been known to go for a ramble or two on occasion.