Switched to MO2, texture mods cause hangs.

[EPDGaffney]

Specs:

 

Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 35 °C
14nm Technology
RAM
16.0GB Dual-Channel Unknown @ 1064MHz (15-15-15-36)
Motherboard
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. PRIME B350-PLUS (AM4) 36 °C
Graphics
TOSHIBA-TV (1920x1080@60Hz)
S22D300 (1920x1080@60Hz)
4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti (Gigabyte) 41 °C
Storage
2794GB Seagate ST3000DM001-1CH166 (SATA ) 34 °C
465GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB (SATA (SSD)) 31 °C
Optical Drives
No optical disk drives detected
Audio
RME Babyface Pro

 

 

So, I was using NMM for a long time and never had this problem apart from when the FCU broke NVSR. Then for a really long time NMM wouldn't even work, something about needing to log in, so I kept my nearly vanilla load order as I was really just testing my quest mod anyway, not doing any real playthroughs. There were no graphics mods whatever for this period, which is from a few months ago when I reset my PC (my last post here I think).

Well, my girlfriend's pressurising me to start uploading some images of my mod, and I decided to install some texture mods to make them look pretty. In order to do this, I wanted to stop being lazy and start using MO2, to use its virtual install and profiles method to switch back and forth between various degrees of load order density for testing my mod.

 

So far, from what I can tell, all the mods are working fine except the texture ones. I'm new to MO2 so I don't know for sure what it's doing with my .ini files. I was using JIP LN's falloutcustom.ini and MO2 sees it and lets me edit it. Some of the textures aren't even being replaced, despite being replaced in the GECK when I load the meshes in there.

Archive invalidation is on for all profiles. I've tried unticking and reticking that. Is there more to it than that?

 

I actually need to cut this short, so suffice it to say my load order is almost nothing, and right now I'm just trying to get NMC's large texture pack to work. Game is stable 60 without it, stable 60 with it in my mod's areas, and crashes after I take a few steps into any vanilla area. Tried with the Ojo Bueno Ultra as well, and the only difference is the vanilla areas don't even load up (but my mod's areas are fine). The NMC large pack worked fine on my GTX 750 Ti, so I'm convinced there's something i can do to get it working here.

 

Thanks.

[HadToRegister]

With all of the threads and comments on almost every mod page asking for help with MO2, I really don't know why people insist on using it.

 

Pick any random mod and go through the comment section, there's bound to be at least one person asking why x mod or y mod doesn't work with MO2

[M48A5]

Did you make the game large address aware using the 4GB patcher? You do not mention doing this.

 

I have reviewed the description page for NMC Texture Pack and cannot find any mention that you can use Mod Organizer to install the mod. Did I miss something?

[BlackTestament7]

With all of the threads and comments on almost every mod page asking for help with MO2, I really don't know why people insist on using it.

 

Pick any random mod and go through the comment section, there's bound to be at least one person asking why x mod or y mod doesn't work with MO2

 

When I tried to reinstall my New Vegas the second time for my new playthroughs I tried to use MO2 but I couldn't get fomods to work at all and archiveinvalidation wouldn't take until I did it a few times. I ended up going back to NMM but I'll probably try out Vortex when it's completed.

 

That being said, the texture issue is probably one of the ini files not having AI applied. Check the Fallout, Fallout_default, and FalloutPrefs ini files for AI. MO2 may not have access to all three and from my experience that would make all the texture overwrites not work.

[dubiousintent]

Did you update your version of NMM after the change to the logon API in May?

 

As of 08 May 2018, the Nexus has changed some site security to come into compliance with the new "European Union General Data Protection Regulation" (EU GDPR) rules. This breaks older versions of NMM and other tools using the older unsecured API. It is usually reported as being "blocked by the Windows firewall" or causing a "script" or "W3C XML Schema" error installing mods. You will need to update it from NMM on GitHub (or this Nexus NMM download page but it's older than the GitHub version). Check the version numbers between those sites and use the latest release. Please see this Nexus site news article for details.

Some people are finding that even after updating NMM to v0.65.4 they still get a "script exception" message when installing some mods (such as UIO and MCM). This seems to be resolved by this suggestion from user ElysianMod:
* Run NMM as an "Administrator privileges" account.
* Go to NMM "Settings".
* Enable "Add Shell Extensions for Supported File Types".
* Then restart NMM.
(Supposedly this fix is included in "unofficial" update v0.65.7 and later to NMM on GitHub.)

If you add any VWD/LOD textures, please see the 'Checklist Item #15 & 16' entries in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide regarding the need to run both TES4LL and FNVLODGen. Also see the 'LOD/VWD Texture Packs' section of the wiki "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article.

VWD/LOD textures replacements are usually easy enough to install manually. No INI file changes usually needed.

Because "Texture/Mesh" replacement mods replace vanilla versions of those files, you absolutely have to toggle "ArchiveInvalidation" off-and-then-on again after installing or removing one of them so it recognizes that there are loose files (added by the mod) which have to be used in place of the vanilla files in the BSA files or are no longer there and the BSA files should be used instead. That failure to toggle is the most common reason behind most "not working problems". This is usually evidenced by red "!" icon for missing meshes, and solid colors for missing textures. Please see the 'ArchiveInvalidation (by Manager)' section and also see the 'Checklist Item #15 & 16' entries in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide.

-Dubious-

[EPDGaffney]

Thanks, everyone. I have the problem half-sorted. It's no longer crashing after using the 4GB patcher. Thing is, I copied over my executables from my patched installation (which I stopped using only a couple of days ago) after making this new installation and realising MO2 does not offer functionality (far as I can tell) to install mods in the root directory but rather only in the Data folder. So, thank you, M48A5, I would probably have double-checked on this soon, but your comment made me decide to check a little sooner. I ran the patcher and it patched the executable that I had assumed was patched. You get a different message when you try to run it on an already patched executable, and I didn't get that message, so I must not have overwritten that file with my patched one when I thought I had done.

 

What I'm left with now is my archive invalidation problem. Almost every texture is turning up and leaving me at a mostly stable 60 FPS, including Ojo Bueno Ultra that I've just turned back on. But a couple of meshes aren't showing the right textures and I don't know why. I've tried editing the .ini files, toggling it in MO2, and googling. Tried a new save just now and the problem is still there.

 

HadToRegister:

Roy Batty told me several times over the course of the past couple months that I should use it. My understanding was that since not too long ago, it had become stable. I was originally going to switch to MO1 but Roy actually told me that one is the one that has problems with the Gamebryo games (or at least FONV; memory's fuzzy on that). In my case, I was grand with NMM until it stopped working, but that was for a single load order. Now that I want to start playtesting my mod in a large variety of ways, using MO's virtual install approach would be invaluable once it worked.

M48A5:
Thanks for checking NMM. No, it doesn't outright mention MO2, but it's just a bunch of texture replacers, which MO2 can install just fine. In fact, I was in a rush and forgot that I do have Millennia's Weapon Retexture Project installed through MO2 and Macintroll's Wasteland clothing Hires retexture. Both of those work fine. NMC is just textures, so likewise, it should work fine as well. Also, the textures that aren't working in my game are working in my GECK, so that should mean they're installed correctly.

BlackTestament7:

FalloutCustom.ini (from JIP LN) overrides those, so if MO2 is using that file the way I would expect it to do, that should be handling this. But I'm really not sure just what it does with these files. Still, I've gone through the vanilla ones and it didn't fix the problem. It's weird that it's just a few meshes, though. In my experience, when archive invalidation is not working right, a lot more stuff goes wrong than a handful of meshes not displaying the new texture (often, they display the wrong texture entirely if AI isn't working).

 

Dubious:

Thanks for all that. Do I need to update NMM for anything with MO2? If that was about why my NMM stopped working, that sounds about right, yeah. Kept telling me to log in and I just didn't care, so I started doing everything manually, knowing all the changes would be testing mods I was making for other people that didn't conflict with each other and updating JIP LN as updates were released. I'll try what your guide says for Mod Organiser in the ArchiveInvalidation (by Manager) section.

 

Also, crazy enough, new mod manager, new installation, new OS, and new computer since I first mentioned that problem I have where the limbs clone themselves if they're dismembered after an NPC is dead, and that problem is still here as well. I can't believe it. It's not a big deal as I rarely do that when playing, but I can't stop checking for it and it's always there.

[dubiousintent]

Re: NMM and MO2. I've not seen any comments about MO2 having the issues with the API change that broke NMM. Which doesn't mean there aren't any; just not reported here. The guide links to a STEP MO tutorial, so I have no idea if it is still applicable to MO2. Let me know if it doesn't apply.

 

Re: "a couple of meshes aren't showing the right textures". My first thought is that it isn't really an "ArchiveInvalidation" issue, but rather the pathing in the mesh to the texture files. Normally this would be the result of "absolute" rather than "relative" paths. See the wiki article "How to fix hard-coded texture paths in NIF files" for the procedure to locate the texture file entry within NifSkope.

 

Re: cloned limbs. "Dismembered after the NPC is dead"? Don't recall ever having "postmortem dismemberment" happen (don't use melee weapons at all is probably why). Also don't recall that little bit being mentioned previously. I'll have to test for it myself now.

 

-Dubious-

[EPDGaffney]

I think I've fixed it. I didn't quite realise how archive invalidation worked, and it seems my FalloutCustom.ini retained my NMM settings for that. NMM uses a blank archive called Fallout - AI!.bsa, whilst Mod Organiser 2 and presumably MO1 do not. I don't see MO's BSA for archive invalidation anywhere, so my guess is it just handles it its own way, and that my old INI file was getting in its way, as it was telling it to use that NMM BSA file, which I had not copied into my directory.

 

So, the way I fixed it was to copy Fallout - AI!.bsa from my old installation into my current one and then it worked. I actually did everything here but I think the real explanation for my problem is the misunderstanding I've detailed here, with my INI file telling it to use a file that didn't exist.

 

My vanilla INI files keep getting reset to this:

 

 

[Archive]
SInvalidationFile=
iRetainFilenameOffsetTable=1
iRetainFilenameStringTable=1
iRetainDirectoryStringTable=1
bCheckRuntimeCollisions=0
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1
bUseArchives=1
SArchiveList=Fallout - Archiveinvalidation.bsa, Fallout - Textures.bsa, Fallout - Textures2.bsa, Fallout - Meshes.bsa, Fallout - Voices1.bsa, Fallout - Sound.bsa, Fallout - Misc.bsa

 

 

 

This is in no way a problem, as I don't be using those anyhow, but it illustrates that something is trying to make it use Fallout - Archiveinvalidation.bsa. Could be MO, could be vanilla. I don't see that file anywhere, though. Just thought I'd mention it.

Anyway, I'm happy with this, but I may want to try getting MO to do it the way it wants to, as that tends to be the best way to handle things that update frequently unless you want to get really involved with the inner workings yourself (which I probably don't).

 

 

 

My postmortem dismemberment bug was the first thing I ever posted about on the Nexus forum, ages ago. The way it works is if a corpse is dismembered (actor or creature), then you leave the cell, if the corpse is not cleaned up when you return, a copy of that dismembered limb will appear right next to where it connects to the body. Only one other person I've spoken to has ever seen it and it doesn't seem to be reported on-line anywhere besides my posts. That person had Windows 7, which killed my theory that Windows 10 was finding new ways to ruin my life, getting bored of the old ones. Many of my files have remained the same across my various PCs and OSs, and I've kept mostly the same brands for the PC parts, so my guess is something in that combination somewhere just manifests this utterly rare bug. Either way, I don't have to chop up dead bodies, so it's not the end of the world.

[dubiousintent]

Thanks for the clarification. Added that information to that "Issue".

 

Appreciate the clarification on the "postmortem dismemberment" as well. (Now I just have to get some time in playing.)

 

-Dubious-

[EPDGaffney]

Sure. The only thing I don't get is why it let maybe 90% of the textures turn up fine, and used the vanilla textures for the rest. Suppose I really don't get this archive invalidation stuff, as I would expect it to use all the new textures if it's on, and none of them if it's off. But all's well that ends well. I'm mad to get back to modding. Thanks for your help.