Bullet Sponge BS

[Zzyxzz]

Literally all I want is for things to die if I shoot them in the head. Please.

 

Check out my mod Better Locational Damage. Real headshots, no mutipliers. Link is in my signature

[SirGalahad]

I gave up on my game. Never even finished the main quest, despite finding the Institute and facing Father. As I noted, past level 100, reality simply disappears and combat becomes an endurance test for your mouse-clicking index finger. How many times can you click this button as fast as you can and continue to pretend you are doing something fun and engaging? Frankly, this is the best way to sum up high-level Fallout 4:

 

Button mashing torture for suckers.

 

Having to shoot a person dozens of times in the face to put them down completely wrecked Fallout 4 for me. If I had power armor on, I couldn't die. If I didn't have power armor on, getting shot was like being stung by a bee. By a far measure, Fallout 4 features the worst combat system I have ever seen in any video game I've played in the past 30 years. The only game worse was a Star Wars title on the Nintendo 64 in which everything moved in slow motion all the time, due to the processing limits of the console. At least I was able to put shrink wrap back on the package and return that game for a refund.

 

I have installed Better Locational Damage and Better Explosives and started over from the beginning. If things aren't much improved, I am done with Fallout 4. I won't put myself through boring, ill-thought combat again.

 

If things look good, I'll try adding Raider Overhaul and Super Mutant Redux, although the last time I tried combining them with Better Locational Damage, my game stopped launching.

[Deleted49413338User]

I can agree to this fore sure. I use mods that really remove bullet sponge completely, but Ive never got to lvl 100 to see if these is suddenly a drastic change.

 

A lot of mods might modify damage to body parts, like adding 5-10x multiplier on head damage. The problem with this can be that helmets suddenly seem insignificant. An Enemy with a Power Armor helmet can be killed with one shot to the head, or worse, one blow with a rolling pin..

 

There are also Damage modifiers to Race. For Example, you might want to decrease damage to Power Armor Race making those enemies one of the only remaining Bullet spongey type enemies, and making them tough to beat. But Vanilla game has mostly enemies that spawn with PA to not be wearing a Helmet... What a dumb idea.. If you increase the damage resitence of the Race, you end up with NPCs without helmets absorbing bullets to the face like its nothing..

 

Fixes for this are to modify the Outfits so They Spawn with Helmets and are tough, or not edit the damage multiplier for the PA Race and instead edit every single armor piece individually, which is time consuming and tedious, and does not support any modded PA added. Ideally there should be damage modifiers separating races into armored and unarmored into tiers. I think its maybe Horizon? that adds a Helmeted Human race and decreases head damage if a worn item has a keyword of helmet or something.

[jkruse05]

I can agree to this fore sure. I use mods that really remove bullet sponge completely, but Ive never got to lvl 100 to see if these is suddenly a drastic change.

It's not a sudden thing at level 100. It starts being noticeable around level 80 or so and gets worse the higher you go. It happens because you can only upgrade damage so much, but enemies keep getting health every level. It's why I suggested Static Enemy Levels, the health nerf version. It forces them to stop leveling at a certain point, so they stop getting extra health, and the health nerf version makes them get less per level, so they cap out with less health overall. Combine that with a locational damage mod and/or a damage modifier mod.

[SirGalahad]

I was talking with a friend about this problem, wondering if Fallout would have done better with a combat system similar to first-person shooters, such as the old Doom or Unreal. The player may find better armor and weapons, but base health never rises that much. This way, the player never gets to coast through the experience—it's always a struggle, but with bigger bullets and explosions later on.

 

Perhaps the "role playing" concept is being applied poorly? Growth and improvement are decorated with all manner of milestones everyone enjoys reaching, but "role playing" advancing the player toward divine ascension is a bit much. Shouldn't "role playing" reveal itself in divergent narrative? Granted, that would take more time and money to pull of than does coding for never-ending health pools, but the enjoyment found in such a system would be immeasurable. Surely the money follows good design?

 

Another idea I had was to make weapon damage perpetually increase with player level, including all damage taken. If health doesn't stop growing, neither should damage. Wouldn't that put an end to bullet sponges? From my limited point of view, it would seem an easy change to implement.

 

I'm a couple days in with Better Locational Damage and Better Explosives. I find the game much more enjoyable than before. I die all the time. Every time I grow complacent or careless, I die and have to reload. This is infinitely more enjoyable than the vanilla game. I hope the challenge lasts, and that I will still get killed at level 120 any time I grow sloppy. Believe me, I will post my experience when I get back up there.

 

The only problem worth mentioning is the lack of notice when I'm bleeding. I thought there was supposed to be an icon that warned of a bleeding proc. My health drops when I'm bleeding, but I forget the health bar all the time. I installed HUDFramework long before Better Locational Damage, and expected a new warning in the game. Don't know what I missed.

Edited July 31, 2018 by SirGalahad

[jkruse05]

Perhaps the "role playing" concept is being applied poorly? Growth and improvement are decorated with all manner of milestones everyone enjoys reaching, but "role playing" advancing the player toward divine ascension is a bit much. Shouldn't "role playing" reveal itself in divergent narrative? Granted, that would take more time and money to pull of than does coding for never-ending health pools, but the enjoyment found in such a system would be immeasurable. Surely the money follows good design?

Yes and no. What you are asking for is just a nonlinear narrative, which can be present in any type of game. See Spec Ops: The Line, or one of several Silent HIll games, and many others. Not RPGs, but they have diverging narratives. RPGs are defined by the ability to control the player's character's looks, personality, and abilities, including effectiveness with different weapon types. Fallout is defined by being an RPG. Is is not, no was it ever intended to be a realistic combat simulator.

 

That being said, Fallout 4 does not do a particularly good job with its methods of defining skills and abilities. Perks are good for giving special capabilities, not so much for just improving basic skills. It lets you advance too much, ruining the definition of your character and letting you be good at everything. Fallout 4 should have a limit to how much SPECIAL stats can be increase, and a hard level cap overall.

 

However, is also absolutely possible to have a full RPG with set health levels and have weapons gain accuracy and stability as skills increase rather than damage. Older Fallout games were more like that, though not 100%.

[SirGalahad]

I wasn't looking for abject realism. I just want a touch of common sense in a game. Fallout 4 misses the mark by way of its ridiculous combat system. I imagine many would agree with me that having to shoot someone dozens of times in the face at point blank range to score a kill is ridiculous, let alone precious little fun.

 

I would be playing something else if realism defined my gaming. Nevertheless, no game should advance carpel tunnel syndrome and repetitive stress injury as selling points. Which is to say that the combat system in Fallout 4 isn't simply ridiculous, but inept.

 

Fortunately, Bethesda can rely on modders to fix their games.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

Honestly at this point I've given up almost entirely on combat in Fallout 4. I abuse cheat weapons and console commands so that I can oneshot everything and get combat over as quickly as possible. I'm looking at some "deadlier combat" type mods (I am about to try Better Locational Damage, thanks for the suggestion) that will hopefully make at least a ranged stealth play-through worthwhile. Otherwise, if I want good combat, I play a pvp shooter.

As Calahad says, it's more about common sense and playability than it is about achieving the utmost realism. Bullets should kill or incapacitate people--including you--because otherwise fights drag on forever, the stakes for getting shot are exceedingly low, and combat starts feeling more like a chore than a challenge.

Beside that, I'd like to see less enemy spam overall. I mean. Yes it is ridiculous that 90% of the commonwealth's population is raiders. But also: Even if combat in this game was fun and engaging, I feel like Fallout games should offer a lot more than just walking ten steps, shooting raiders, walking ten steps, shooting mutants, ad infinitum. Especially when virtually every quest already follows the "go there and shoot them" format. It really does feel like they're trying to compensate for the lack of anything more substantial to do.

Edited August 1, 2018 by TheSpaceShuttleChallenger

[Undeadbob666]

Well here are some mods I use for a tougher playthrough.

 

Survival Rebalance (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13680)

I like this one because it changes the Health model (you and npcs get less health) and changes the location damage multipliers. It also makes the weights of weapons and armor to match their real-world counterparts.

 

Advanced AI Tweaks (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27763)

This changes many aspects of the AI to make combat more difficult, I especially like it because of the changes to stealth based on lightning and what state the enemy is in (relaxed, sleeping, alert, etc). It also increases the patrol range of NPCs, so they will look and search around for you after you blast some punk with your shoty.

 

No Place is Safe (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23358)

This makes it so NPCs will actually hunt you down and follow you into communities, even trying to kill you in your sleep. Sorta of annoying sometimes, however, as you'll be doing your thing in town and blame addicts trying to steal your stuff. Don't recomend this one with any sort of NPCs can die type mods unless you hate the world and want everyone to die in front of your eyes. Not my game.

 

More Realistic Fire Behavior (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/30246)

NPCs, and you if your sadistic, will become crippled when on fire and receive a movement debuff. May not seem like much but it makes using fire based weapons a great way to deal with crowds.

 

Perforation (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21371)

This is a cool mod that changes automatic weapons around to receive a slight damage boost from consecutive hits. I really like this one, because it is applied to any vanilla or modded weapon with no fuss, and it makes using weapon mods like the M60 or even the plain old minigun allot more satisfying.

 

EDIT:
AARP (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/25206)

Forgot to add this one, but it actually adds the Fear effect and not Perforation. I skipped over this one because its more of a weapon mod than an overhaul of the combat system. However the fear effect actually makes most vanillia automatics more effective. I also think it modifies modded weapons based on vanillia templates, because I was using the Chinese Assault Rifle and it seemed to me they were running away - however I'm not entirely sure of this since I use 248 mods.

 

Realistic Ranged Accuracy for NPCs (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27731)

Brings NPCs skill with guns down a little bit to realism, with all of the other combat mods I use I add this one to balance things out a little bit.

 

Stagger mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15693)

This one makes it so when a target is damage there is a chance that they get stunned momentarily, while a gunshot may not kill a super mutant outright - they will certainly feel it!

 

Survival Options (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14650) & Game Configuration Menu (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/33759)

I feel like these are essential mods in my load order now, started using them recently and I'm appalled at what goes on behind the scenes in fallout now. Like in Survival Mode you take twice as much damage, but only inflict 1/2 damage as a base. Survival Options allows you to change allot aspects of survival mode, and GCM allows you change everything else at any difficulty setting. My favorite feature is the ability to reduce grenade spaming and a option to turn off Auto-Dodge, the dreaded skyrim NPC ability to avoid your carefully aimed arrow shot.

 

Realistic Movement Speed (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/25495)

Makes everyone, including you, move like a real person instead of the super hero they make the sole survivor. Another simple mod, that for me makes the game more challenging.

 

Pack Attack (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/30140)

This is another AI overhaul that gives group based tactics to NPCs, they will try to outflank you and even use melee charges with covering fire.

 

Weaponsmith Extended (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10737)

In addition to the various crafting options it adds, and the gigantic list of weapon mods included, it also changes the way ranged and melee weapons do damage. It makes melee combat akin more to skyrim with actual weapon reach (instead I hit everything within 10 feet with my knife), it also re-balances ranged weapon damage based on caliber and barrel length. So if you don't mind the extra bits, its a good add-on to have. However if you don't like the extra bits there are mods that do similar things.

 

Sorry for the long post, maybe you'll find some of these useful.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Undeadbob666

[jkruse05]

Perforation adds fear when enemies are under automatic fire? Do you know how he accomplishes that? I do a similar thing with AARP, but it's just an enchantment on the weapons (heavy weapons only) that has a chance to trigger panic on each hit. If there's a better, more compatible way I'd like to hear about it.