An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

Devin, what do you think about this post? ^

 

That is a large quote, I'm not too sure which part of the post your referring to. Could you clarify that for me?

[Devilman1975]

devinpatterson, on 13 May 2013 - 21:19, said:

 

For example if it turns out that Hardin is the elder of the BOS and they do take Helios it could be the only one reasonable example of installing Veronica as an elder, through a quest/adventure......even if only temporarily (yeah it's a stretch, said it wouldn't be a good example, but I think it gets across the concept I was trying to communicate). Another could be reuniting her and Christine, which would change her life trajectory.

 

Reuniting with Christina (if she survives Dead Money) would make for a more positive scenario with Veronica. Installing Veronica as the Elder of the Brotherhood after dealing with Hardin actually sounds good to me. I would probably have to deal with most of the fanatics in the Brotherhood first but Veronica being an ally to the Courier would be the best choice for a replacement elder. However I'm sure that Veronica may be left with a chapter that is a fraction of it's former size.

 

devinpatterson, on 13 May 2013 - 21:19, said:

 

 

 

 

 

So a few quick questions;

 

Do we want to assume the companion default return to the lucky 38 is the penthouse, or would another dialog option giving the choice to return to the suites or the penthouse be preferable? Would companion specific activity, for instance Veronica hangs around the workbench, or the bookshelf (ala her scribe nature) be a plus?

I usually leave the presidential suite as a sandbox area for vanilla companions so I'm happy with them as they are.

 

devinpatterson, on 13 May 2013 - 21:19, said:

 

 

 

 

 

In regard to the dam (& possibly strip), do we want to see the Securitrons "escorting" out NCR personal for a few days, or just the results (ie already empty of troopers next time the player arrives)?

I would go for the second option but I would keep the NCR embassy open on the strip especially since the Vegas economy relies on rich NCR tourists coming in.

 

devinpatterson, on 13 May 2013 - 21:19, said:

 

 

 

I plan on making small groups (travel packages) of Securitrons running from the securitron vault to the dam and the strip. What other activities in those outlands would reinforce NV's change in leadership?

 

 

Replacing the NCR Sgt stationed outside Camp Searchlight with a securitron to warn explorers about the radiation in the area. Another area that would be greatly affected would be the Bittersprings refugee camp especially if the NCR chose to fall back to their own territory.

devinpatterson, on 13 May 2013 - 21:19, said:

 

 

 

Camp McCarran (the airport) is also another issue, maybe the end slides touch on it? It's somewhat defendable and has a large NCR prescence. I don't think we should simply assume it is abandoned without a fight, the way the strip & dam are. Maybe base it on the actions at the end. If you toss Oliver the NCR will hold it as a military stronghold and be an active combat zone NV until excised. If you have a relatively neutral rep with the NCR after the ending and didn't toss Oliver over the side, they will still hold it & it may be possible to establish some trade with them....even a wary neutrality that could someday lead to a tentative alliance.

Camp McCarran's fate depends on the quest Three Card Bounty being completed. If all or some of the fiend leaders are left alive then McCarran falls to the fiends, otherwise the NCR manage to hold on to it. What concerns me is that McCarran has a monorail route right to the strip. This would make controlling McCarran airport a priority. I like the ideas you've got in mind for McCarran but it will be hard to resist the urge to have Yes Man throw Oliver from the dam. :biggrin:

Edited May 14, 2013 by Devilman1975

[TheAtmosphere]

I think the deal is perhaps out of sympathy on Robert House's side, or perhaps Anthony suggested a cheaper construction method then Houses others

Perhaps a dialogue choice before you kill the resurrected House could be:

"The House always wins, but it's the Wild Card that collects the jackpot"

 

Also I'd love to see Victor taking a more antagonistic role in this, perhaps on a PR visit to Goodsprings before House comes back, you see Victor in the graveyard, he looks pissed, so you wobble over to talk to him, and he's acting unusual, then you hear House speaking through him, then when you get to Vegas, that's when it happens.

Sorry, I meant this quote.

[Devilman1975]

I was thinking that the quest involving the White Glove Society would also have possible repercussions for a Independent New Vegas. As much as I disliked Heck Gunderson and wanted to put a bullet in his head on behalf of the elderly couple on the strip I knew that killing him and letting the White Glove Society continue to dine on NCR tourists would cause problems for Vegas further down the line. If NCR citizens and investigators continued to disappear inside the Ultra Luxe then I'm sure rumors would spread and it would have a negative impact on tourists visiting the strip.

 

If relations between the NCR and Vegas continue to deteriorate then I guess that the NCR would put trade sanctions in place. If Gunderson survives I could imagine him being pressured by the NCR government to stop supplying food to the strip but if the player had rescued his son I think he would be willing to ignore the NCR's request but only if the Courier agrees to hunt down Mortimer who is trying to bring back the White Glove Society's cannibalistic traditions somewhere in Westside or elsewhere.

[devinpatterson]

Perhaps a dialogue choice before you kill the resurrected House could be:

"The House always wins, but it's the Wild Card that collects the jackpot"

Sounds good, I like it.

 

 

 

Also I'd love to see Victor taking a more antagonistic role in this, perhaps on a PR visit to Goodsprings before House comes back, you see Victor in the graveyard, he looks pissed, so you wobble over to talk to him, and he's acting unusual, then you hear House speaking through him, then when you get to Vegas, that's when it happens.

Definitely more of a spot light on Victor. Victor will be House's right hand man. Besides the covert activities of jumping into other securitrons I see him as an upgraded securitron to exchange fire with and as you suggest a mobile platform for House's digital clone. A member, crap can't remember his name, but I think it was vienna calling saw the command & clue'd me in on changing securitron faces, so no problem to put Houses mug on Victor.

Edited May 14, 2013 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

 

If NCR citizens and investigators continued to disappear inside the Ultra Luxe then I'm sure rumors would spread and it would have a negative impact on tourists visiting the strip.

 

True. So I think our tie in to new vegas is the "tithe" the families pay to you (ie your cut) from the casinos. A reduction in the cut and some additional dialog among tourists might create the effect we want there.

 

 

If relations between the NCR and Vegas continue to deteriorate then I guess that the NCR would put trade sanctions in place. If Gunderson survives I could imagine him being pressured by the NCR government to stop supplying food to the strip but if the player had rescued his son I think he would be willing to ignore the NCR's request but only if the Courier agrees to hunt down Mortimer who is trying to bring back the White Glove Society's cannibalistic traditions somewhere in Westside or elsewhere.

 

Re: Gunderson, that's a good point assuming he's in or near NCR land, and I think that's a fair assumption as it doesn't appear to me that he runs his business in the Mojave. But I could be wrong on that one.

 

On the larger point of trade sanctions, I'm not sure the NCR can impose a air tight one, on the Mojove as a whole or even just NV. They only hold the northwest toward the republic and teh legion holds the southeast toward flaggstaff. So potentially you will always have some trade unless both powers enact sanctions. On the other hand the NCR has a lot of great trade anyone would suffer by loosing. Whereas I don't know how much trade the legion enjoys.

 

 

 

In the same vein as your suggesting we could also have a quest based on the boomers. A splinter faction or small group that isn't happy under Perl's rule (more aggressive). Some how they acquire knowledge of other military bases (whether nat guard or active pre-war) from nellis's mainframe or Perls files, and want to grab some heavy armaments. It could be a rescue mission to stop them from getting themselves killed or a more serious mission to keep heavy weapons out of a potentially aggressive boomer splinter group. Meh....actually that doesn't sound very interesting, but it would be fun to make a nat guard armory like the one in fallout 3, that was a cool spot.

[devinpatterson]

 

 

I seem to be in two minds regarding the vanilla companions. While I think that they and their endings should probably be left alone I seem to think some of their endings seem somewhat bittersweet particularly Veronica's. It would be difficult to get some additional voiced dialogue unless something can be put together from existing audio files. I wouldn't mind some expansions to the vanilla companions if it ties in with their endings.

 

I'v heard splicing audio files for dialog like that is very time consuming, from the author of Melissa (khan, daughter) companion description-kh. As much as I hate too, we we may have to just do dialog. But when I have some free time I'll see if Isabelle or maryberry could do an imitation.

 

Re: your idea for Cass, I think a carvan house is best for her too. & I see your notes on Raul, Rex, Boone etc seem pretty much on target.

 

 

 

I agree with Devilman1975: for the most part, the vanilla companions feel lacking and it might be better to make them into regular NPCs - the custom companions (I would add the two from the Boulder mod as well) are much more interesting.

 

Definitely want to give them their own lives if they aren't actively in the couriers service. So that might be the best compromise. We write continuing plot elements for each, new home locations, etc but don't yank a companion away from a player to become a npc (I don't think people will like that). I'll look into it and see how problematic it will be, since in the vanilla game they essentially do a whole lot of nothing just waiting for the players beck and call.

 

I'll try to keep them evolving but still accessible to the player. Maybe it should be harder to have them simply drop everything for the player. For instance if the player decides he wants to go grab Cass, she will join the party, but before she can there's something that needs to be taken care off. Not a quid pro quo per se, but rather a fire that has to be put out with the players help, before she is free to help. Or maybe at times she's simply unavailable, in far flung places on the trail?

 

 

Since there is a year long jump, I think the best best best would be to have them visible, but ultimately not that important.

 

I'm not really shooting for a year per se, or did you mean the end slides are about a year off? I thought we'd pick up right away with several parts or chapters;

 

Part/Chapter 0 would be the changes to the strip, dam, fort, penthouse, securitron factions. Essentially removing NCR & placing securitrons. Knocking out Yesman's references asking if your ready to go to teh dam etc. No real story elements per se, just want to get it out there so you guys can start beta testing it and tackle any major bugs. I have some free time (an hour maybe more?) tonight, so I hope to do a little bit of work.

 

Chapter 1 will be the immediate aftermath of the endgame, like within an hour. Riots in NV for instance. Khans actions (isn't there a migration in play or something?). Transfer of bots and NCR, if you guys decides this is something you want seen. If like Devilman1975, you'r not interested in that & would rather just see the results (which is easier) let me know and if it's a majority we'll simply skip it.

 

Chapter 2 should be after the player has put out some fires and is a relative calm before the storm. Might be a two week period (longer or shorter) in which you work with Yesman to begin changing the character of NV. This will be where things like sending a few bots to guard searchlight, mending fences with the vegas families, dealing with NCR & Legion diplomacy, working on opening up/restoring parts of the strip etc. It will also be a strategic time as you decide what parts of your forces should go where, if you'll extend your protection to the NV towns or strengthen NV's perimeter at the expense of the rest of the Mojave etc. There will be tough decisions to be made, as I'd like to write the plotline in a way that some decisions will preclude other choices. If you ally with the BOS, jacobstown is out (barring some extraordinary circumstances). If you forge a wary alliance with the NCR, expect retribution from the legion. If you forge a non aggression pack with the legion, expect NCR agitators provoking Mojove towns to push for inclusion in teh republic. If you don't provide protection to the Mojave towns some will be raided and destroyed like Nelson. If you do send out bots to the towns (leaving less bots at the strip & dam), there will be a legion (under different colors) sabotage attempt at the dam & an assassination attempt on the strip itself, to inspire terror. This will keep the action steady (but not too hectic) and have real consequences for the players choices.

 

Chapter 3 will be our new story of Houses revenge (possibly Yes man's corruption etc).

 

 

 

Cass - I think she should open her own bar in Freeside and use it as a spy ring. Alcohol can loose lips and she can drink most people under the table - her prostitute employees get the rest when they are lying in bed.

 

To me Cass seems much more suited to a caravan house of her own, continuing Cassidy Caravans.

 

 

Lilly - for some reason, I see her as having her at one of the farms near New Vegas, with a couple of bighorners for company. How crazy she is/isn't well depend on the medicine intake.

 

I like that, it seems nice. Maybe a simple quest to get her better medicine (or not) and her own little ranch.

[devinpatterson]

 

Raul - It would be awesome to have him be a mechanic by day and a Zorro-like character at night, with his own secret hideout and leaving an "R" carved into his dead enemies.

Interesting idea, and easy to implement. Just add some dialog by peeps on teh strip.

 

 

ED-E - yeah, there's really no where else for him to go except visit his other self at Lonesome Road.

 

Or maybe continue his journey (given by his creator) to Navarro. After a few months he returns. If Navarro is destroyed he has nowhere to go, but back to the courier. Or alternately he finds his creator who upgrades his programming/AI giving ED-E more independence (he obviously always had a special place in his heart for ED-E). Then realizing ED-E will never be safe in the enclave he forces ED-E to leave for his own good.

 

 

Veronica - there was a thread here (a while ago) about reuniting Veronica and Christine; while I would still like to see that, ultimately, I think the best bet would be for Veronica leading a group like the BOS, but one who actually uses technology to help humanity rather than just squirrels it away. There used to be a mod (banned now) about getting control of your own unofficial BOS chapter called the Apostates - seems like a good concept for Veronica. It could be based out of the abandoned BOS bunker.

 

Seems like the one of the vanilla endings, where she joins the followers would fit that bill, they use tech to help.

 

 

[devinpatterson]

I think there should start to be some sort of Mojave Republic army beginning to form. So McCarran is still in the hands of the NCR (it takes time to pack up a major military base and get all of your ordinance home), but the Ranger Stations should be abandoned.

 

Seems like a prudent coarse of action for the player, since s/he will need all the military might possible and there are many places Securitrons can't reach or will be ineffective. One thing to keep in mind though is that many towns in the Mojave are very independant. An example is goodsprings. Didn't pete (or maybe it was another character) mention the NCR? Even though they would protect them, they'd impose taxes and laws on them, so he moved on from republic lands to come to settle in goodsprings. I have a feeling that most people see things the same way whether it's the NCR or NV, so it shouldn't be an easy sale. But if the legion attacks them, or they don't have to pay any taxes and it's just a mutal protection pack, then it'd be a whole lot easier to bring them on board.

 

Quests could begin with trying to recruit mercenaries to help secure the borders, then start training and equipping militias with the aim of eventually turning them into a regular army. So initially you'd have patrols of people in wasteland wanderer outfits, toting 9mm pistols. Then you'd have to negotiate deals with the Gun Runners, the Brotherhood, and the van Graafs to upgrade their armour and weaponry.

 

 

 

It does seem there will always be mercernaries. Although spending coin (well actually cap) on them will mean that there are less for other critical areas of NV/Mojave, which will be more choices tor the player.

 

Another idea: You could use global variables to keep track of your economy, the goodwill of the people, and the power of the military. You can build up the economy by performing quests like repairing parts of Hoover Dam, helping set up farms and ranches, reactivating old factories, etc. Then you can spend the economy points that generates on equipping your army (so you could spend 10 economy points on a deal with the gun runners to upgrade from pistols to service rifles, etc.), or on revamping Freeside and other towns, providing services and security like building clinics and stopping crime. If your goodwill is too low, you could get rebellions happening in far-flung regions, or riots in the streets of Vegas, which you could choose to deal with with your armies, or negotiate and give in to peoples' demands. Probably not the easiest to script, but I reckon it's definitely possible.

 

All good ideas, and definitely something that should be implemented. Raul would be a great choice to head the dam repair team, keep him out of trouble too. Though I'm not sure about the points per se I might have to fallback to simply aquest script with basic if/then's set up. But I'll start thinking in terms of points and see if it's practical.

 

Also, repopulating and cleaning up the towns decimated by the legion would be good. Start adding freed slaves to Nelson (I can imagine a lot of freed slaves knocking around after the legion are forced back)

 

yeah definitely clean up Nelson. As far as slaves I'm thinking there was only the fort, cottonwood and a legion campsite, so not a whole lot of them. But yeah they should be included in the story. & Cottonwood needs to be taken care of.

 

So I greatly appreciate Devilman's response in re: companions in the penthouse default & on whether or not to show the NCR egress or just hte end results. But I'd like more feedback on what everyone thinks would be best so I can properly gauge what is most popular.

 

I'm also curious if we should basicly keep the same format of Yesman handing out teh quests that we did near the endgame? it makes it easy. He could also implement troop distribution, resource management. The alternative would be various personalities from across the Mojave...more colorful & interesting, but a lot more work.

 

Of note a link to the NV treaty. House conceded McCarran, the embassy & the Dam. Everything else they did on their own (camp golf, Mojave Outpost etc). When the treaty is nullified, I don't think they'll give anything back except those 3 locations (McCarran, embassy, dam) without a fight.

 

 

[devinpatterson]

Oh also continuing to send 95% of the dam's juice (the amount they got under House) to the NCR would go a long, long way to normalizing relations with them.