An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

I got the impression that Anthony wasted quite a bit of that on his own ineptitude,

 

Yeah that's essentailly the way I see him. Between his own incompetence and developing insanity, it's not hard to imagine he tanked H&H tools. In my opinion no match for his half-brothers genius. But a valuable source of inside info.....if you can reach him.

 

hence the ghoulification.

 

Yeah definitely the way to go, it keeps Roberts life extension tech exclusive. It also reflects Roberts opinion of Anthony already in lore, ie. couldn't give a rats as* about Anthony (or possibly even mildly amused at his unending lunatic condition).

 

So do we make a basement level in H&H tools, or say he's been hiding out under camp golf when the NCR came.

 

The last is a little problematic, but interesting, because of the tie in to it's former owner (Robert). In some ways I'm doubtful as paranoid as he is about Robert, that Anthony would hold up there. But on the other hand, Anthony may think it's the last place Robert would look, or just realize the fact that the place is deserted and Robert obviously has no interest in it.

 

Ghouls still need food, but I don't see much of a chance for Anthony to slip out at night past all the troopers unless he has a way through the sewers or something similiar. But the resort could have an extensive bomb shelter and you could have literally 100's (1000's) of empty tin cans laying around (if the game engine can handle it) as a testament to Anthony's dietary habits and to show he hasn't left this place in literally decades. We could make big static collections shaped like a pyramid, piles here and there etc. It'd fit well with his paranoia (same thing if he's under H&H tools) .

 

The other catch is that you get a lot of bad rep with the NCR for flipping the El Dorado power station switch. You can still have a neutral rep with the NCR, even after the Hoover battle, but most players won't. So for most, getting into Camp Golf is gonna be a bloodbath or a stealth mission.

 

So I feel like the main plot line has solidified somewhat, and even better the player has a choice that will give two very different quests (always good to choose your destiny). I'll put up a summary or a little flow chart of how I see it currently.

 

I think next is ideas on where Robert is held up? An exclusive vacation resort or mini-villa somewhere? A forgotten ally? An abandoned complex close or in NV?

[darkus37]

Well, if Robert is definitely coming back, I guess Camp Golf would be best (although, how did he get there?) and Anthony should be underneath H & H Tools. BTW, it totally wouldn't surprise me if Robert has used his connections to forced H & H out of business as revenge.

[devinpatterson]

Well, if Robert is definitely coming back, I guess Camp Golf would be best (although, how did he get there?) and Anthony should be underneath H & H Tools.

 

I'm not sure he'd go there now, since the NCR occupy it, and it's not a secret it's his former residence , so I think that would also dissuade him. I'd say maybe there was a chance if his emotional condition resulted in him needing familiar surroundings, but Robert seems much stronger than that. And apparently he doesn't have any attachment to teh place since he didn't care when the NCR moved in.

 

Plus if we make his location unknown (I think House Resort is too easy to guess), that's the emphasis to seek out Anthony and get some inside info on Robert's pre-war haunts.

 

Anthony doesn't have that problem since he could have slipped into House resort decades before the NCR came.

 

But you think maybe H&H tools would make a better spot for Anthony? Seems logical since he's barricaded the place. We can leave a report/note/terminal entry somewhere in the penthouse to cast a little ambiguous light on Anthony's existence. Like maybe since one of Anthony's terminals had a lucky 38 executive override, another of Anthony's terminals in his basement bunker could have some network activity that was noticed by House's systems.

 

BTW, it totally wouldn't surprise me if Robert has used his connections to forced H & H out of business as revenge.

 

Oh yeah, definitely. I imagine he took no small measure of satisfaction in it as well.

[devinpatterson]

Well, if Robert is definitely coming back,

 

I feel like that's the best way to keep his character "undiluted" as opposed to becoming an AI or other quasi immortal (although I do like the brain in a bottle angle too). Maybe it's why the developers wrote in this life extension tech, it gives him a uniqueness from other pre-war survivors.

[devinpatterson]

Or.......if the player killed him, he's a brain in jar (not sure how the tech came along), but if the player didn't (kill him) he's in his wasted Hughes husk of a body. More work, but it reflects the characters decisions and I think players like it when their choices have effects down the line.

 

Maybe he found the tech for it recently (last decade or two, maybe less) when he had his hired hands/mercs scouring NV (or whereever it was) for his platinum chip. But possibly make the tech imperfect, so he has less than a year to live.

[greenknightfury]

As to how Robert would get to Camp Golf I have an idea: His home outside Vegas had a hidden bunker underneath it with a secret tunnel linking it with his home away from home the Lucky 38. Designed for quick/emergency escape from either place should the need arise (he had a number of enemies, both business and some government people, along with personal enemies in people he had destroyed personally/financially to expand his business empire), his securitrons are programmed to bring him to the other location should something happen to him in one of them, his medical equipment (top of the line autodoc and emergency systems) at the bunker finding his body (if you choose to kill him) beyond repair, they remove his brain and place it into a biogel tank with proper connections to allow him to communicate with the outside world (a final solution he had designed ahead of time with no desire whatsoever to use if there was another choice), much like the brain in a jar guy in Point Lookout. (stolen plans from the facility that that took place in being how he had access to the tech, a spies report with a download of the specs on a holotape would work nicely)

 

As to Anthony, even before reading the ghoul suggestion that was what I was going to suggest (anyone that went into H&H must remember the heavy rads you could pick up in the main chamber of the plant), and him playing the infosource to the player seeking to stop his brother makes for a perfect way to add him, as well as a perfect revenge from Anthony's point of view; his journal reveals that whether it's true or not he blames his brother for the disasters that plagued H&H before the war, and since Robert was buying up so many companies and purposely setting himself up as a competitor to the business, not a bad assumption.

 

Being too cowardly (or smart looking at it objectively, one ghoul against all those robots) to attack Robert directly he has been secretly monitoring him for years, and waiting for the chance to find a way to strike back at him. All the while growing more and more crazy and paranoid, as all the movers and shakers outside his hidden home (a bunker beneath H&H tools filled with food and entertainment) have come under his brothers sway. Along comes the defiant Courier and gives him the hope of finally bringing this rivalry to and end.

[charwo]

Not having actually played New Vegas, my knowledge base is compromised as to that game. However, I've been looking to get into the modding thing for things I want to do in Fallout 3 and if I can be a part of a team where I can cut my teeth, f***in A! I want to help on this project, if only because I want a mod where the US can be restored, and I may have to help do that.

 

As I said, I haven't yet begun to play NV. But....if my offer for help is accepted, I will get Fallout New Vegas Ultimate Edition and set it up post haste. Note I will be playing with a bunch of mods looking for things to look for. But while I can't do any actual programming, I've seen ideas in other mods, mostly in Fallout 3. I can give a couple of ideas straight off the bat:

 

1. The mod must be compatible or at least not contradictory to a fertile Mohave mod.

2. House was right: control of the economy is the key to controlling the population. Given the scariness of what Yes Man might be under the pleasant programing, a Courier will want to build up a human army in a hurry to make sure they have a force to contest rouge securitrons.

3. Under those circumstances, an independent New Vegas mod needs to revolve around rebuilding an industrial economy and base, rather than combat. These kind of operations will be creating facilities to deradiate the water table (and with Project Purity running in DC for four years now, this is possible in the much less contaminated Mohave), rebuilding the roads, and eliminating enemy spawn points (eventually, no more deathclaws on the Long 15) and finding and refurbishing all industrial facilities in the region. You'll need cars, robots, rail facilities, basically you'll have to work to rebuild NV infrastructure up to and past NCR levels.

4. Human resources: Even if you eliminate all the factions, you'll need to convince the population to accept your rule. In my case, restoring the vaunted US of A as a true democracy (albeit down the road) the glory and the power AND the freedom. Also, what if you can convince the other factions or their parts in the Mohave to join you. Specifically convincing Hannon to look the other way and go back to Reading early, and then developing a relationship with NCR commands up to General Oliver that will get them to desert NCR and join New Vegas and/or in my case, the US restoration movement based out of Vegas. For Caesar's legion, that will have to wait until after Hoover Damn, at which point you can convince, for varying speech checks and concession, not all of them good, join the US.

5. At least in a US restoration version of the project, old school ghouls save Raoul, because he's Mexican, will get get on board very quickly. You can also count on the support of the Enclave remnants, if you can use a speech and science check to show them that there is no such thing as a 'pure strain human.' However, this might mean having to off Jacob, as he believes the past should be left buried. Not that I have a problem killing someone who still is comfortable wiping out common humanity.

6. I'd recommend porting a LOT of aid from DC. As in Project Purity Notes (quest, takes time to run to DC, buy the plans and tech), Brotherhood trailers that can train a non-powered armor army similar to NCRs, etc, etc.

7. Quests in the DLCs, like Lonesome Road would be stopping the storms and detoxifying the area as well as wiping out the Marked Men forever and taking control. Get into the Sierra Merde Vault again and using the gold to fund the start up.

8. Capture Bear Force One and turn it into Air Force One (America f*** Yeah!)

9. Also....as an Easter egg or just gonzo awesome, have Private Dobbs from SAD in Fallout 2 as an ally or companion, on the theory that the Chosen One didn't thaw him out, and that when NCR took over, they did in a way that he survived and is a few years past that with no family and no country. So in theory, I will be happy to help write a mod.

 

My offer of help is now open. All you need to do is accept it.

[devinpatterson]

Not having actually played New Vegas, my knowledge base is compromised as to that game. However, I've been looking to get into the modding thing for things I want to do in Fallout 3 and if I can be a part of a team where I can cut my teeth, f***in A! I want to help on this project, if only because I want a mod where the US can be restored, and I may have to help do that.

 

Sounds great. Flying the old world flag is a worthy cause, perhaps the most noble of the wasteland.

 

Right now we have a loosely based team of me, you, Trooper, Greenknightfury and Darkus, mostly.

 

1. The mod must be compatible or at least not contradictory to a fertile Mohave mod.

 

I can't think of anything off hand that would conflict.

 

2. House was right: control of the economy is the key to controlling the population. Given the scariness of what Yes Man might be under the pleasant programing, a Courier will want to build up a human army in a hurry to make sure they have a force to contest rouge securitrons.

 

Certainly agree the economy is important, the odd variable in that equation is that NV's main economy is gambling. A unique product to say the least.

 

Re: a militia/army. Absolutely, and even if Yesman isn't a threat, machines and networks can be compromised. I wonder if all the nevada desert rangers have been completely adsorbed into the NCR. It would be cool to have an alliance with them.

 

3. Under those circumstances, an independent New Vegas mod needs to revolve around rebuilding an industrial economy and base, rather than combat.

 

While I agree the economy is essential, don't dismiss combat. Any economic success makes NV in an even more precarious position, in that the NCR already wants to annex it and the Legion overtake it, a richer NV just fans the fires.

 

These kind of operations will be creating facilities to deradiate the water table (and with Project Purity running in DC for four years now, this is possible in the much less contaminated Mohave), rebuilding the roads, and eliminating enemy spawn points (eventually, no more deathclaws on the Long 15) and finding and refurbishing all industrial facilities in the region. You'll need cars, robots, rail facilities, basically you'll have to work to rebuild NV infrastructure up to and past NCR levels.

 

Sounds solid to me, I'll add them to our notes. Infrastructure/construction will provide a lot of potential points of conflict, which makes for some great mini-quests.

 

We also want to take into account the Mojave's citizens (outside of NV)'s reactions to Government....they don't like it, they don't trust it. So this makes ample opportunity for story lines. Winning the hearts and minds as it were.

 

4. Human resources: Even if you eliminate all the factions, you'll need to convince the population to accept your rule. In my case, restoring the vaunted US of A as a true democracy (albeit down the road) the glory and the power AND the freedom. Also, what if you can convince the other factions or their parts in the Mohave to join you.

 

Yeah some factions already fit well with the concept. For instance Marcus and his super mutants are basically (at the most fundamental level) just asking to be treated equally to anyone else. ie citizenship. Some like the B.O.S will never integrate (due to their current political/power structure and their belief re: the dangers of technology in untrained hands), but wouldn't be a threat to democracy. Still others would simply have to be removed (at least from the Mojave) to safeguard any republic (Legion, raiders, fiends, vipers etc).

 

Specifically convincing Hannon to look the other way and go back to Reading early,

 

I'm afraid I didn't play FO1 or 2, Who is Hannon?

 

and then developing a relationship with NCR commands up to General Oliver that will get them to desert NCR and join New Vegas and/or in my case, the US restoration movement based out of Vegas.

 

Due to the end game scene, I think it's safe to say Oliver won't be deserting the NCR to join an independent NV. The only way I could see something like that happening would be if he was framed or something similar and was fleeing for his life.

 

But I do think that he would put his personal feeling aside to make a strategic ally as long as the legion is across the Colorado. The securitrons guarantee a certain level of safety to NV. The NCR could annex NV by devoting a (very) large amount of men and resources but it would cost them dearly, and they simply can't afford that in the Mojave with the Legion breathing down their necks.

 

Plus there is no reason why a fledgling republic couldn't alley with another republic. Many of the beliefs are shared in common. And while the NCR would prefer to annex NV I believe their ideals would also allow them to make an alliance if the partner was a democracy and strategically nessary.

 

For Caesar's legion, that will have to wait until after Hoover Damn, at which point you can convince, for varying speech checks and concession, not all of them good, join the US.

 

Anything is possible, but due to the Legions social structure, training etc (from a very young age) I think you will find very, very few deserters. But one thing they do understand is power. I believe the best you can hope for is to make it too costly for the legion to attempt to sack NV. The one thing Legate Lanius fears is a military defeat. Nor do I believe you'd ever be able to make a alliance with the legion that was anything more than a empty promise and a convince to Ceaser. Tribe after tribe and land after land have learned that. Truthfully an alliance with the legion is shorthand for a soon to be vassal (at best) of the legion or annihilation (as happened to Ulysses's tribe and many others).

 

5. At least in a US restoration version of the project, old school ghouls save Raoul, because he's Mexican, will get get on board very quickly. You can also count on the support of the Enclave remnants, if you can use a speech and science check to show them that there is no such thing as a 'pure strain human.' However, this might mean having to off Jacob, as he believes the past should be left buried.

 

Some good points. Are you referring to Jacob, Marcus's friend?

 

6. I'd recommend porting a LOT of aid from DC. As in Project Purity Notes (quest, takes time to run to DC, buy the plans and tech), Brotherhood trailers that can train a non-powered armor army similar to NCRs, etc, etc.

 

I'm not too sure what to think of the above suggestions. In re: to project purity, the Mojave actually has many sources of relatively clean water, so it's need isn't as great as D.C. The power armor is an interesting idea, but you'd still need the suits themselves and they are fairly scarce in teh mojave (mostly just the brotherhood, which are unlikely to share).

 

7. Quests in the DLCs, like Lonesome Road would be stopping the storms and detoxifying the area as well as wiping out the Marked Men forever and taking control. Get into the Sierra Merde Vault again and using the gold to fund the start up.

 

This is probably the only points I would strongly disagree on. We don't really know how far the Divide is from the Mojave much less the Sierra. And I don't think it's something that can be cleaned up. I think the storms, toxic clouds etc are now essential aspects of those locations. It'd be like us trying to thaw out Anchorage or like the early part of the 20th century bringing irrigation to south CA. Monumental projects to say the least, not for the faint of heart or a fledgling government.

 

8. Capture Bear Force One and turn it into Air Force One (America f*** Yeah!)

 

I admire your enthusiasm/vision, but it might be better to simply acquire one from an enemy as opposed to a fellow Republic (even if that republic rarely takes no for an answer to joining the NCR).

 

 

My offer of help is now open. All you need to do is accept it.

 

That would be great, I appreciate it.

 

I'm quoting your last msg as well since you had good ideas in it too.

 

One thing I ask is that Ulysses be a major part of the plot. From what I've read of him, he might be the Courier's most potent ally.

 

Yeah he would be, he wears the old flag and has keen insight into both the NCR's and Legions weaknesses and strengths.

 

And given what the NCR did to the Divide (and it seems it was deliberate)

 

Sawyer (IIRC) explained what happened; the courier unwittingly carried a package through the divide that awoke a military network. The network launched the icbm's and destroyed many wastelanders as well as NCR citizens. He didn't say who contracted the package, so the real villain *may* be whoever hired the courier.

 

maybe you wouldn't so much have to expel the NCR as convince NCR ground commands that the United States, rather than just parochial California is the goal they have so desperately sought.

 

Honestly I think that is actually their goal, the real question is whether they can accomplish it. So I think your suggestion is right on target.

 

Ulysses says they expand too fast and too far, making them vulnerable for the legion (by cutting off their supply chains, hitting their undefended citizens etc). They have just tried to do too much and are spread too thin. But that's even more reason for the player to alley with the NCR, as the mojave will be the tipping point for the final battle at hoover. It's a third battle, if I recall correctly, but I can't find a citation for it. It will determine if the NCR will be able to continue to expand the republic (and I suspect eventually return to the closest pre-war gov possible), or collapse and become prey for the legion.

 

One thing is for sure, there will never be peace and no republic will be safe as long as the legion stands.

 

Also....as an Easter egg or just gonzo awesome, have Private Dobbs from SAD in Fallout 2 as an ally or companion,

 

Sure, I'v never played FO1 or 2, but people like callbacks.

 

I'ts late so I'm afraid my brain is running on fumes, and it's about all I can do just to reply to your points. But I have a lot of ideas to throw back your way when I'm clear headed. One thing before I hit the sack though....symbols. Symbols of government (even though many would no longer recognize them) can be very powerful. Whether that's a rare relic like the Constitution, or something as common (in it's time) as the old world flag. It seems to add legitimacy to a government. I can't quite make a coherent argument for questlines at the moment, but I think there is something that should be pursued.

[charwo]

Well, if you've played Fallout 3, the basic documents, the Bill of Rights, Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, Constitution, Declaration of Independence, are in the good hands of Abraham Washington and the Rivet City Capital Preservation Society. However, if you want a decent and plausible call back, it's likely the robot Button made an exact replica (forgery) of the DoI. For lulz that could only be topped by a good voice actor, have a traveling show from the Capital have Button Gwinnett as part of the show, where he can teach the people of the Mohave the virtues of American citizenship and democracy. For absolute lulz, have Button be the one to talk to the Enclave Remnants and convince them to stop being the Enclave by creating a conversation based on the thoughts and ideas of the Founding Fathers, making use of Jefferson, Madison, Washington and Hamilton as well as important thinkers of their era they drew on like Ben Franklin, John Locke, Adam Smith and Baron Montesquieu. Most players understand that the Enclave has a warped, disgracefully paradoic and moronic notion of what America is all about, but being dressed down by a Protectron in a powered wig who thinks he's the second signer of the Declaration of Independence quoting the Founding Fathers and throingn the Enclave's outright Nazism in their faces, the results will be one of the greatest verbal beatdowns in the history of any modding project on any game and it will be made worse by the fact that Button, true to his programing will remain unfailingly polite in the manner of the 18th century country gentleman he thinks he is. It will be lore friendly and lulzy. It will be infamous.

[darkus37]

Hey, just wanted to add some more places for securitrons to guard:

 

1) Helios One - whether this is a power plant or weapon, it's still a major location for whomever controls the Mojave. Just replace the NCR personal with a couple of securitrons and maybe add a patrol or two (fixing the fence would be a good idea, but whatever).

2) Scrapyard - remove half the stuff in there and have one or two securitron(s) standing watch over it, as it is being used for resources. Alternately, add more scrap/vehicle parts as a major stockpile area.

3) Repconn Test Site - I sent the ghouls on their way so there are no more rockets (for now). but the tech for this is still lying around, and don't forget that one of Mr. House's goals was a base on another world. If nothing else, this would be a good place to make weapons.