Manual way to create load-order rules?

[MarkusTay]

Because the 'drag to...' feature DOES NOT WORK. It will work if the two are on the same screen (I can see both at the same time), but if I have to scroll down (ya know, like you have to do 100% of the time!), it 'breaks' and does nothing. I drag, it scrolls down, it looks like it 'links' to the one I want to create rules for, and then does nothing at all.

 

So when I first switched to Vortex it worked because the list was very small, but now that I have over 200 mods, I can't manipulate my load order at all... which defeats the purpose of a Mod organizer (unless you happen to think your organizer is absolutely perfect and makes no mistakes, in which case I wouldn't even know how to respond to that).

 

So is there some way to bypass the 'dumbing-down' features of this MO and be able to manually move stuff around?

[BigBizkit]

You are right that that should not be the case.

 

That being said, however, are you trying to do this for mods or for plugins?

 

For mods, there shouldn't be a reason to use manual rules if there are no conflicting files.

 

For plugins, can you try again after restarting Vortex?

[MarkusTay]

I've tried to restart Vortex several times, to no avail. It appears to be working (after I spent a minute or two trying to figure-out how to scroll down without the line 'breaking'), and I can then drop it onto the other mod i want to create rules for... but then nothing. The other thing is that it won't 'scroll up', only down (I would have preferred making the rule in the opposite order, because its the higher-up file I want to move down, but since I can't get it working regardless is does not matter). I've tried this with both the mods, and the plugins themselves. Nothing.

 

The problem I am having is that it is not a conflict (at least, Vortex isn't registering it as one). I have three different mods that affect Home Plate, and surprisingly they all work well together. The only problem is is that one moves the Workshop (Aloot's Home Plate), and a lower-ranking mod moves it back, and it clips into some other stuff which is visually unappealing. I figure I'd try putting the Aloot mod lower than the other, because sometimes that works (and according to the mod-author, other workshop mods can easily mess up the rules he created there).

 

A LOT of mod-authors recommend you put their mod 'as low as possible', or below certain others. Vortex does not make that easy (or in my own case, even possible).

[AugustaCalidia]

Because the 'drag to...' feature DOES NOT WORK. It will work if the two are on the same screen (I can see both at the same time), but if I have to scroll down (ya know, like you have to do 100% of the time!), it 'breaks' and does nothing. I drag, it scrolls down, it looks like it 'links' to the one I want to create rules for, and then does nothing at all.

 

So when I first switched to Vortex it worked because the list was very small, but now that I have over 200 mods, i can't manipulate my load order at all... which defeats the purpose of a Mod organizer (unless you happen to think your organizer is absolutely perfect and makes no mistakes, in which case I wouldn't even know how to respond to that).

 

So is there some way to bypass the 'dumbing-down' features of this MO and be able to manually move stuff around?

 

The "drag to" feature on my Vortex (0.17.1) works perfectly well. Do you have the latest version of Vortex, whether stable or testing?

 

Anyway, I've discovered there's no need whatever to drag plugins and/or mods around in Vortex. Setting rules and/or assigning to groups replaces dragging and dropping. When I want a plugin to load after another plugin, I simply create a "load after" rule using the "Manage Rules" menu. Or I open the Plugin Details Pane and assign the plugin to an appropriate group further down the group hierarchy. However, I've also discovered that there's very little need to do any of this because of the built-in LOOT sorting feature of Vortex. I've been using Vortex for almost a year now to manage hundreds of plugins, and I've had to create plugin rules and/or group assignments only a handful of times.

 

The same is true of mods and file conflicts. I just click on the lightening bolt when a file conflict is indicated and set an appropriate rule. I've never had any need to drag one mod to another to set a rule.

 

Frankly, I love this "dumbed down" feature of Vortex. After years of manually shuffling things around using other mod managers, I'm quite happy to be rid of manual drag and drop sorting.

[AugustaCalidia]

A LOT of mod-authors recommend you put their mod 'as low as possible', or below certain others. Vortex does not make that easy (or in my own case, even possible).

 

Vortex makes it quite easy to do what you want to do. Use group assignments for plugins, and within groups use "load" rules, if necessary.

[HadToRegister]

Because the 'drag to...' feature DOES NOT WORK. It will work if the two are on the same screen (I can see both at the same time), but if I have to scroll down (ya know, like you have to do 100% of the time!), it 'breaks' and does nothing. I drag, it scrolls down, it looks like it 'links' to the one I want to create rules for, and then does nothing at all.

 

So when I first switched to Vortex it worked because the list was very small, but now that I have over 200 mods, I can't manipulate my load order at all... which defeats the purpose of a Mod organizer (unless you happen to think your organizer is absolutely perfect and makes no mistakes, in which case I wouldn't even know how to respond to that).

 

So is there some way to bypass the 'dumbing-down' features of this MO and be able to manually move stuff around?

 

If you're insisting on manually sorting your plugins, (don't know why, because you don't need to), all you have to do, instead of dragging, is click on MANAGE RULES, and a nice convenient window will open up where you can set which plugin loads before or after another plugin.

THAT is the Manual Way to set load order rules.

However, I would suggest you stop reading those reddit 'guides' out there that instruct you on "How to set up a perfect load order" (with ESPS), because they're absolutely outdated and unnecessary now.

 

I can tell you right now that you're going to be complaining about "Cyclic Rules" if you keep insisting on manually sorting your Plugins though.

 

It's NOT needed, except for one or two rare esps that need to go to the bottom of the load order that can easily be put there by just putting the plugin in a group like "Late Fixes & Changes" or "Dynamic Patches"

 

The sooner you learn that it's your MODs that need sorting (MODS = BSA, BA2, Textures, Meshes) and that Vortex does all of the ESP sorting, the better off you'll be, because people who refuse to drop the antiquated and unnecessary ESP sorting that NMM has ingrained in them, will eventually end up with a Gordian Knot of Cyclic References.

Stop working AGAINST Vortex, and start working WITH it instead.

 

It took me a month or two to unlearn what using NMM forced me to do, and to learn and embrace the way Vortex does everything.

[MarkusTay]

I haven't read any of those guides in awhile. I am a quick study. :wink:

 

The whole 'just let Vortex sort things for you' is precisely what I've been doing, and although it seems very annoying to constantly have to explain every little change to my MO, in the long run I guess its worth it (in other words, I've come to accept the 'create rules' things as a 'necessary evil'.... because I suppose micro-managing all of that stuff keeps the game running, as Opposed to the old way of doing things - just letting lower files overwrite higher ones and have the conflicts go to an overwrite folder). So despite the fact that Vortex 'demands answers' every time I do something to my folders ("A change has been made outside of Vortex - please explain to daddy why you did this bad thing"), my game is running, and at the end of the day, that's all I truly want (well.. that and several hundred mods to all play nice with each other LOL).

 

And I do have the latest version, and it works just fine when the two mods are on the same screen (which limits it to about 12, making it almost useless). I have no idea why its behaving this way.

 

As for the folders (files other than esp's), I have been trying to do something about that with mixed results. Apparently mods that use stuff from other mods (Weaponsmith Extended being the main culprit here) requires you to 'unpack' files from other mods and use them, but in some cases it CAN'T because they aren't loose files, which the replacer esp is probably looking for. I'm afraid that is still above my pay grade (for now... as I've said, I've had some successes).

 

Normally I DO let Vortex do its thing, but in this one very specific case I was trying to fix a load-order problem that was giving me an aesthetic anomaly, which is why it doesn't show up as a conflict (there are three I would think conflict, but Vortex has no problem with them - I suppose modifying world-space multiple times doesn't count the same way as game-engine files do).

 

In the end, I fell back on a 'trick' I saw on a Youtube video (I don't actually use reddit... but searches sometimes lead me there), wherein you can move your Workshop using Console Commands. Its a very butchy approach, and I am sure something gets 'broken' in the process (having played with the CK, I know all about all those 'lines' connected to workshops), but as of right now it looks good, and I haven't come across any nasty side effects... YET.

 

But for future reference, I appreciate the help given me here. I hadn't noticed the 'header' changed when I went form 'mods' to 'plugins', so I must have missed that 'Manage Rules' category there. If the sloppy method I used to move the Workshop doesn't work out, I will try that again. Thank You.

[HadToRegister]

 

 

But for future reference, I appreciate the help given me here. I hadn't noticed the 'header' changed when I went form 'mods' to 'plugins', so I must have missed that 'Manage Rules' category there. If the sloppy method I used to move the Workshop doesn't work out, I will try that again. Thank You.

 

I've put in a request for the "Manage Rules" to be also added to the MODS tab, where it will be the most useful, considering that's where the most useful sorting is done.

Because that Manage Rules window is a VERY Powerful little window where you can set up load order rules.

It really needs to be available for the MODS tab though, then they're won't be any need for draaging between mods.

 

Honestly, I haven't had to drag anything in Vortex for a very long time, all I do now is put the mod in a group I know will load low in the load order.

 

"Groups" are also extremely powerful

 

At this point, if you find yourself dragging in order to sort, then you're doing something you don't need to be doing, I haven't done it in months now, there are better and easier ways

[MarkusTay]

I haven't setup groups. I probably should have for at least Unique settlers and all the mods that get hooked-into it.

 

But by the same token, things are working right now, so I guess "don't fix what ain't broken" is a good rule to live by.