Deactivate a normal plugin or all your light masters -FE issue

[metaton]

Hi All,

 

Anybody can help me to solve my problem, please? I have 280- ish mods in my load order, a lot of these mods are Esl-s (this is why). Now If I understand correctly these light plugins occupy the 254. plugin slot, so I need to deactivate a single plugin if I have 255, so there is no conflict.

 

Warning from loot :You have a normal plugin and at least one light master sharing the FE load order index. Deactivate a normal plugin or all your light masters to avoid potential issues.

 

 

 

On Reddit: The new Creation Club content - ESL plugins - don't behave like normal plugins. I assume you're aware of the normal 255-plugin limit? When you use ESL plugins - any number of them - all of them are merged into one plugin that takes the 255th slot. So, if you use any Creation Club content, your plugin limit is lowered to 254. LOOT is telling you that you have both Creation Club content and 255 normal plugins. You can solve this in two ways - either disable a single normal plugin, or all Creation Club content, to free up the 255th slot.

 

 

I am using Mod organiser.

 

The esl mods make sense because they don't count into the mod limit so I can go over 255. If I just deactivate the one which is the 255. nothing changes, another mod takes the slot in the order. I would need to deactivate 30 -ish mods, so I get to deactivate the 255 esp slot? This is defeats the purpose to have ESL mod in your load order to save space. How I need to do this?

 

Also how to run Wyre bash and tessedit with more than 255 mods?

 

What should I do?

Edited February 23, 2019 by metaton

[Deleted58783396User]

Wrye Bash will disable all mods post 255, but when you right click on the bash patch,0 - it will ask if you want to merge specific mods, clicking yes will do just that and will also disable the now merged mods, which should allow you to then enable all the mods which were disabled (the mods that exceeded the 255 mod limit), thus solving the issue. all merged mods will be placed in the bash patch, and thus can remain disabled, a little Green Plus box will be next to all the mods that were merged, and will only be visible as such in wrye bash, viewing them in any other mod manager, will look like disabled mods, once they are merged do not attempt to re-enable em as it is not necessary, they will still work in game, and thus also grant the ability to install even more mods, bypassing the 255 hard limit.

 

Wrye bash will typically merge all mods that are patch files. so if you have a lot of them, then you will end up with considerably more available mod slots, for ESP and or ESM files.

 

ESL files are designed to literally be Light Master Files (master files that only has a small Record limit, so literally small mods), they are not designed to be Actual Mods (although they ofcourse can be proper mods, as long as said mods only have a few record entries), hence the reason they are classed as master files and automatically are placed at the very top of the load order and cannot be moved below esp files.

 

their sole purpose is for the Creation Club, so those that already hit the maximum limit, can still download and use Creation Club Content.

 

so that is the draw back to that.

 

You are far better of Merging mods, then opting for ESL files, because of the very reason i mentioned above. doing it this way, will eliminate hassle, but at the same time, will require you to know what you are doing, as the Load Order is very important for a stable game.

 

Their are many Drawbacks to ESL files being used as actual mods, because of the Load Order. because they are master files, they can be overridden by any other mod that contains an ESP file, which will be every single mod below the ESL file.

[metaton]

Hmm that is interesting. Thank you very much for your help. I have done merging before and I found it a bit tedious and it always caused issues on the long run.

 

Only two questions remains then:

 

Is it safe to over 255 limit with ESLs in the load order? (I know the game will start, but is it safe?) (especially on the long run)

Can I just ignore the LOOT 255. slot error?

[Deleted58783396User]

it should be safe yes, as mentioned before, bethesda made them specifically for those that already have the maximum amount of mods, and wish to add creation club content on top of that.

 

Basically, as long as you Never Exceed 255 ESP and ESM files you will be alright, meaning you can Exceed the 255 Active Plugin count with only ESL files, and their should not be any problems from a stability standpoint based on increasing the Active Plugin Count alone,

 

however as mentioned, the stability entirely depends on what exactly each ESL file Contains

 

as you already know, specific mods must be in specific locations in the Load Order, ESL files cannot be placed Correctly.

 

if mods are not placed correctly in the Load Order this can result in CTDs, Game Freezes, Mods making other Mods Redundant, and the list goes on.

 

 

The Best Case Scenerio for ESL files: are Re-texture Mods, Very Basic Edits, such as perk tree changes, or weapon/armor stat changes, etc etc. (it would be entirely safe for these mods to be placed at the very top of the load order with little to no issue, it would then be a case if another mod would edit the same thing, then the other mod will always win, depending on if the other mod is an ESP file)

 

the worst case scenerio for ESL files are: Leveled list Edits, Quest Mods, Heavily Scripted mods, etc etc, basically mods that require high priority, or do Heavy Edits, or Require a lot of Record Entries.

 

Heres a bit more info about ESL files:

 

ESL files: have a maximum record entry limit of 4096, that may seem like a lot but it is not depending on the mod, for example a single weapon mod (that adds a single weapon, including crafting and tempering recipes) would include 3 record entries alone. 1 record for the weapon, 1 for record for tempering, and 1 record for crafting

 

you can have a maximum of 4096 Active ESL files, but that limit greatly decreases based on how many Record Entries each ESL file contains in total. so basically you cannot have 4096 Active ESL files if every single 1 of them included 4096 Record entries. in other other words, all ESL files in total can only include upto 4096 Record entries, meaning the only way to have 4096 active ESL plugins, would be for each ESL file to only include a Single record entry. so for example if 2 ESL files include 2048 Record Entries each, then your ESL active Plugin Limit will be 2 ESL files.

[metaton]

Thank you for your detailed answer. I am still not sure how this should look like in my load order. I am using Mo, I have a couple of Creation Club mods but also have 4 or 5 mods with esl extension (like additem menu and etc.) Where these should go into the load order to not cause any issues? Shall I have my 254 normal mods and just put the rest of the esls to the bottom?

 

Also creation club mods are not using the 255th to store information? Wouldn't that cause a problem if another mod already takes that place? (And if you use esl mods there will be definitely mode mods than 255 so something will take that slot)

Edited February 26, 2019 by metaton

[Deleted58783396User]

Additem Menu should be fine being at the top of the load order, because it is primarily a SKSE Plugin, and it most likely checks base game + dlc and modded content via the DLL file and Scripts, it is automatically launched once on game load, and then from their on out, it requires user input, so this backups the idea that it should be fine having low priority, as it is only activated when the user, uses it, as far as i can tell.

 

For Reference: LOOT has placed the ESP, half way in the Load Order, meaning it would require medium priority.

 

with that said i would personally only download ESL files from the Mod Authors them selves, not from anyone else. because the mod author should know where their mod must be placed in the load order. others may not know that.

 

i honestly dont know too much about ESL files besides what i have mentioned, i do not use them myself. as i prefer ESP files. it is always good to have a limit, as this is what forces you to manage 255 mods, which is already plenty, anything more then that is asking for trouble, because the more mods you add, the more chances of conflicts, which then results in more chances of issues, CTDs, Redundant mods, etc etc.

[metaton]

Well thanks man I can see a bit more clear.

Is anybody using ESLs more extensively and knows how this stuff works with load order and stuff??

Edited February 27, 2019 by metaton

[MyHouseatl]

it should be safe yes, as mentioned before, bethesda made them specifically for those that already have the maximum amount of mods, and wish to add creation club content on top of that.

 

Basically, as long as you Never Exceed 255 ESP and ESM files you will be alright, meaning you can Exceed the 255 Active Plugin count with only ESL files, and their should not be any problems from a stability standpoint based on increasing the Active Plugin Count alone,

 

however as mentioned, the stability entirely depends on what exactly each ESL file Contains

 

as you already know, specific mods must be in specific locations in the Load Order, ESL files cannot be placed Correctly.

 

if mods are not placed correctly in the Load Order this can result in CTDs, Game Freezes, Mods making other Mods Redundant, and the list goes on.

 

 

The Best Case Scenerio for ESL files: are Re-texture Mods, Very Basic Edits, such as perk tree changes, or weapon/armor stat changes, etc etc. (it would be entirely safe for these mods to be placed at the very top of the load order with little to no issue, it would then be a case if another mod would edit the same thing, then the other mod will always win, depending on if the other mod is an ESP file)

 

the worst case scenerio for ESL files are: Leveled list Edits, Quest Mods, Heavily Scripted mods, etc etc, basically mods that require high priority, or do Heavy Edits, or Require a lot of Record Entries.

 

Heres a bit more info about ESL files:

 

ESL files: have a maximum record entry limit of 4096, that may seem like a lot but it is not depending on the mod, for example a single weapon mod (that adds a single weapon, including crafting and tempering recipes) would include 3 record entries alone. 1 record for the weapon, 1 for record for tempering, and 1 record for crafting

 

you can have a maximum of 4096 Active ESL files, but that limit greatly decreases based on how many Record Entries each ESL file contains in total. so basically you cannot have 4096 Active ESL files if every single 1 of them included 4096 Record entries. in other other words, all ESL files in total can only include upto 4096 Record entries, meaning the only way to have 4096 active ESL plugins, would be for each ESL file to only include a Single record entry. so for example if 2 ESL files include 2048 Record Entries each, then your ESL active Plugin Limit will be 2 ESL files.

How did you manage to change Additem Menu to an .esl when it has a master UIExtention?